Around the League 2018-19: Part III

[CaptainChef]

Don't know if this was already posted, new Forbes team valuations

The Business Of Hockey

Interesting - we're still #27. Also interesting that 6 teams are still losing $ (assuming that is what operating income means) - Anahein, NYI, Carolina, Columbus, Florida, Arizona. Eight other teams are at or below our $11 mil income - Minn, StL, Calgary, Tampa, Ottawa, Colorado, Nash & Buff.

Also revealing that 5 of original 6 are still at top for net worth, with Detroit slipping to # 8 on that list.

 

[HannuJ]

Point it out to me, I don't see it in my original post.

It's nice to see that you're resulting to smearing me instead of defending your original point.

Explain to me how it's a blindside hit in your opinion, which again doesn't even matter in the NHL rulebook anymore. Blindsides aren't taken into consideration unless the head is the principle point of contact. Open ice hits are judged very differently than a boarding call.

And since when has purpose mattered in a contact sport? As I've explained, how the NHL rules on late hits is the point I've made. Reaves made contact around 0.51 seconds after Wilson controls the puck. It's literally within the margin of error for the framerate of the video and clock to call it a late hit. Wilson was eligible to be hit, the only contact is shoulder on shoulder. Tom Wilson is injured as a result because his helmet comes off from the impact, not from anything that Reaves is responsible for.

Saying the rules need to be changed is one thing, but don't resort to ad hominem BS, defend your point.

blaming the helmet as the reason for the concussion shows a lack of understanding of what causes a concussion.
it was as likely, if not more likely, caused by his head snapping backwards suddenly from impact. that's why a blindside hit is dangerous.

the actual definition of blindside:

"a direction in which a person has a poor view, typically of approaching danger."

Wilson had zero view of Reaves approaching. therefore the onus is on Reaves to avoid contact to avoid injuring Wilson.

i am not smearing you. i am pointing out the falsities in your statement and how you contradict yourself.

i see intent to injure, not intent to separate a player from a puck that was played. it was a dangerous hit. plain and simple.

 

[None]

blaming the helmet as the reason for the concussion shows a lack of understanding of what causes a concussion.
it was as likely, if not more likely, caused by his head snapping backwards suddenly from impact. that's why a blindside hit is dangerous.

the actual definition of blindside:

"a direction in which a person has a poor view, typically of approaching danger."

Wilson had zero view of Reaves approaching. therefore the onus is on Reaves to avoid contact to avoid injuring Wilson.

i am not smearing you. i am pointing out the falsities in your statement and how you contradict yourself.

i see intent to injure, not intent to separate a player from a puck that was played. it was a dangerous hit. plain and simple.

How is anything I've said contradictory? I've been clear in saying that it's clean by the rules in the NHL. You're saying that my post is blaming Wilson for getting hit.

Again, blindside hits aren't considered illegal by the NHL rulebook, that's an entirely different discussion. I only commented on it because there's a lot of commentary going around about what is and what isn't considered a blindside hit. The NHL has no definition for a blindside hit.

But even still, I've made my point about why I don't think it's a blindside by conventional thought. Wilson had no reason to be watching the puck behind him and it was his own trajectory that brought him towards Reaves. If he hadn't been watching the puck there's very likely no discussion about this because he probably braces himself for contact and doesn't get hurt.

You can't blame the player initiating the contact when we're talking about half a second between Wilson turning his head away from contact and making the hit far worse than it should have been. Hitting in the NHL has never been entirely about separating players from the puck.

You've clearly got an issue with the NHL's rules, but you're misunderstanding and it's grossly mischaracterizing my entire point.

 

[Neuf]

Dops needs to suspend Reaves or it's out of control. This was caused by them being too lenient on Wilson.

 

[Cellee]

Yes, we shouldn't be applauding this hit with a karma's a ***** attitude. Sure, Wilson is a d-bag who has done the same to others but two wrongs never make a right.

When you have no regard for the safety of others don't be surprised when they have none for yours.

This is the atmosphere he has created for himself. When you see Wilson coming at you then you better get ready to dish it, because he doesn't care if his check is legal or not.

 

[Cellee]

Dops needs to suspend Reaves or it's out of control. This was caused by them being too lenient on Wilson.

They suspended him for 20 games. It was overturned. Blame the PA and the arbitrator.

 

[Neuf]

They suspended him for 20 games. It was overturned. Blame the PA and the arbitrator.

Actually, that's an excellent point.

Players are going to police themselves and exonerate themselves?

 

[Cellee]

re-read your post. you literally blamed the victim.
explain to me what purpose Reaves hit served. let's start with that.

Wilson is a reckless dirt bag, guys will protect themselves.

It is not a surprise.

 

[Cellee]

Actually, that's an excellent point.

Players are going to police themselves and exonerate themselves?

I think they are human beings trying to preserve their careers for the most part. It sucks when a guy will break the social contract and roll the dice on badly injuring other players.

 

[Gm0ney]

I don't believe for one second that only 6 teams have negative income, unless the income is calculated after those teams take their cut of revenue sharing.

I'd think the revenue sharing would be included. The Coyotes are still losing $11M/year even after revenue sharing. They'd be losing close to $25M/year without it.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That's the thing one always needs to remember. If I were to chose between him & Connor at this point, it would be a hard choice. Connor does so many things, as well as having good hands. But, Laine is no slouch setting up guys, he just hasn't had much puck luck there. Think of how long it took Wheeler to get his game up to snuff, and imagine what Laine will be in 5 years -- the guys got nothing but huge upside.

Much as I like Connor, it isn't close. Farmboy is great. Patty is special. I hate to use the 'G' word because it is getting used too often these days but I think he will become that. With McD & AM that will make 3 in a 2 year span.

Yes, I think he will be in that company. Just as Ovi is to Crosby, Patty will be to Matthews & McDavid. And yes I am lumping Matthews in with McD.

What an amazing couple of draft classes with Eichel just a notch behind those 3. Wow!

 

[Daximus]

I don't believe for one second that only 6 teams have negative income, unless the income is calculated after those teams take their cut of revenue sharing.

They are purely looking at team revenue. Some teams either own or have full lease rights on their buildings. The main source of income comes from concerts and events and the team is just there to fill 41 dates a year and you hope playoff supplement that income. I think that is how teams like Florida and Carolina seem to get away with being negative revenue teams. The ownership makes up for the cash elsewhere.

 

[BigZ65]

re-read your post. you literally blamed the victim.
explain to me what purpose Reaves hit served. let's start with that.

If we looked at every NHL hit through the lens almost none of them would be legal. 90% of hits are Team A player shoots puck up wall, Team B player swings by half a second later and bops him into the wall. What purpose does that serve?

They have rules and they have precedents. That was a clean hit, shoulder to shoulder and not late, not from behind. If they want to take that hit out the PA can negotiate that in.

 

[Neuf]

Much as I like Connor, it isn't close. Farmboy is great. Patty is special. I hate to use the 'G' word because it is getting used too often these days but I think he will become that. With McD & AM that will make 3 in a 2 year span.

Yes, I think he will be in that company. Just as Ovi is to Crosby, Patty will be to Matthews & McDavid. And yes I am lumping Matthews in with McD.

What an amazing couple of draft classes with Eichel just a notch behind those 3. Wow!

Seems more like a trend then a generational occurrence, then.

Having multiple repeat rocket,Ross, record setter players on the league at once is good for everyone.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Seems more like a trend then a generational occurrence, then.

Having multiple repeat rocket,Ross, record setter players on the league at once is good for everyone.

Yes to the bolded.
I don't think it is a trend, at least I wouldn't call it that yet. If it was just a lot of high scoring and the avg scores had risen proportionately it would be a trend to higher scoring. That may be happening too but it is separate from those players. They are outscoring their peers and also the older players, for the most part.

If Dahlin joins that group I may have to reconsider the 'trend' possibility.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They are purely looking at team revenue. Some teams either own or have full lease rights on their buildings. The main source of income comes from concerts and events and the team is just there to fill 41 dates a year and you hope playoff supplement that income. I think that is how teams like Florida and Carolina seem to get away with being negative revenue teams. The ownership makes up for the cash elsewhere.

I think Fla is the only one in that category and it is because of a crazy lease.

Look at the other money losers. Arizona really loses that much. That's actually an improvement but I don't think they can become profitable until they get a new arena. NYI are a temporary thing. They have a deal with Barclay's that minimizes their loses for now but you will see them making money when they get their new arena. Unlike the 'Yotes, they are going to get one. CBJ just about broke even. They need to boost revenue a bit. Some deeper PO runs would do it but they need their base revenue up a bit. 'Canes are a similar story except that they have had even less PO revenue recently. Ducks didn't lose much but they should be a money maker. Marketing issues?

Arizona and Florida are the only really worrisome perennial money losers. The fixes are Houston and QC respectively.

 

[CaptainChef]

Much as I like Connor, it isn't close. Farmboy is great. Patty is special. I hate to use the 'G' word because it is getting used too often these days but I think he will become that. With McD & AM that will make 3 in a 2 year span.

Yes, I think he will be in that company. Just as Ovi is to Crosby, Patty will be to Matthews & McDavid. And yes I am lumping Matthews in with McD.

What an amazing couple of draft classes with Eichel just a notch behind those 3. Wow!

From what I've seen so far, I'd say you have him a little too high up there. I think he'll fall into a clump behind McD & Matthews, but I'd love to be wrong. Can't say for sure if Connor gets up into that group but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

i thought Evander Kane was flying in San Jose, apparently he has slowed down. 7 goals in first 28 games and 7 x 7 million a year!

 

[sipowicz]

 

[ps241]

Interesting - we're still #27. Also interesting that 6 teams are still losing $ (assuming that is what operating income means) - Anahein, NYI, Carolina, Columbus, Florida, Arizona. Eight other teams are at or below our $11 mil income - Minn, StL, Calgary, Tampa, Ottawa, Colorado, Nash & Buff.

Also revealing that 5 of original 6 are still at top for net worth, with Detroit slipping to # 8 on that list.

I am extremely skeptical of the operating income line.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

From what I've seen so far, I'd say you have him a little too high up there. I think he'll fall into a clump behind McD & Matthews, but I'd love to be wrong. Can't say for sure if Connor gets up into that group but it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

We are looking at Laine from different POV, apparently. I don't know why Connor's name gets mentioned in the conversation at all. He is not on the same planet.

 

[Adam da bomb]

We are looking at Laine from different POV, apparently. I don't know why Connor's name gets mentioned in the conversation at all. He is not on the same planet.

I agree Connor is more in line with Barzal. I disagree with the clumping of McD and AM as I don't think AM will keep up this level of play. AM also has better teammates than McD. I wonder if the scoring race however would be this close if Laine got the Ovie treatment. 22 minutes a game. Top center. It wouldn't be the best for team but CSL. Laine would blow competition away. Having two great lines is better for team but hurts Laine in best all time scoring race.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I agree Connor is more in line with Barzal. I disagree with the clumping of McD and AM as I don't think AM will keep up this level of play. AM also has better teammates than McD. I wonder if the scoring race however would be this close if Laine got the Ovie treatment. 22 minutes a game. Top center. It wouldn't be the best for team but CSL. Laine would blow competition away. Having two great lines is better for team but hurts Laine in best all time scoring race.

I'm judging AM & McD on what they are doing. Both are 1C's so that part is a wash. McD is ahead in ppg but AM is closing the gap. AM scores more goals. He is the guy who scored 4 in his first NHL game! That is a hatty +1 in his very first game, fcs! I think most of us thought that was a complete fluke at the time but he has continued to score goals at a very high rate since. Almost exactly the same G/gm as Laine. A little less in G/60. The difference in linemates is very hard to quantify. I'm sure it has helped AM to some extent, but I think, probably not much.

Laine is younger, less developed. It won't be too much longer before he gets the 1C and top line minutes. So far he has not been ready for that. I've been very impressed by the development in his wider game this year. He is still improving in many ways. I think he is going to be only slightly behind McD and AM 5 years from now. He will be 3rd in a close group of 3 - really only because of W vs C.

Connor, Barzal, Marner, Nylander, Ehlers, Aho and a few others are just not on that level. They are all young and some of that group may pull to the head of that group while others fall back a bit. But I will be surprised if any of them can even come close to joining that top group. I'm not sure where Eichel belongs just yet and then there are those who haven't really arrived yet, like Dahlin & Pettersson. Pretty hard to rate anyone on a third of a season at 18/19 YO.

It is going to be a lot of fun watching these young players over the next several years. In 5 years the hierarchy will have been established but right now there is a lot of uncertainty and speculation.

I wonder if we have just seen the arrival of an unusual crop of very highly talented players or is this the new norm? According to some there are at least a couple more outstanding prospects for the next couple of years. Great time to be a hockey fan, I think.

 

[Adam da bomb]

I'm judging AM & McD on what they are doing. Both are 1C's so that part is a wash. McD is ahead in ppg but AM is closing the gap. AM scores more goals. He is the guy who scored 4 in his first NHL game! That is a hatty +1 in his very first game, fcs! I think most of us thought that was a complete fluke at the time but he has continued to score goals at a very high rate since. Almost exactly the same G/gm as Laine. A little less in G/60. The difference in linemates is very hard to quantify. I'm sure it has helped AM to some extent, but I think, probably not much.

Laine is younger, less developed. It won't be too much longer before he gets the 1C and top line minutes. So far he has not been ready for that. I've been very impressed by the development in his wider game this year. He is still improving in many ways. I think he is going to be only slightly behind McD and AM 5 years from now. He will be 3rd in a close group of 3 - really only because of W vs C.

Connor, Barzal, Marner, Nylander, Ehlers, Aho and a few others are just not on that level. They are all young and some of that group may pull to the head of that group while others fall back a bit. But I will be surprised if any of them can even come close to joining that top group. I'm not sure where Eichel belongs just yet and then there are those who haven't really arrived yet, like Dahlin & Pettersson. Pretty hard to rate anyone on a third of a season at 18/19 YO.

It is going to be a lot of fun watching these young players over the next several years. In 5 years the hierarchy will have been established but right now there is a lot of uncertainty and speculation.

I wonder if we have just seen the arrival of an unusual crop of very highly talented players or is this the new norm? According to some there are at least a couple more outstanding prospects for the next couple of years. Great time to be a hockey fan, I think.

Dahlin is a D. Hard to compare D to forward like that. There is a different group that he falls in.
Laine is younger so he should be able to pull even the closer and ahead the closer the two reach to puberty. People don't say Ovie is behind Malkin because he's a W. it doesn't matter the w-c if you are the best.
Hard to say linemates doesn't matter that much. I mean you put Laine and Schief together Laine has 30 assists because chef finishes at a much higher rate than little without taking away from lanie's goals.
Another thing to consider is do taller players take longer to grow into their bodies. If that's true Laine has more room for growth than AM. Not saying it's the case just contemplating.
Another thing to consider health issues. Whoever stays healthiest the longest has the better chance to have the best careers. Not sure who that will be.
Glad we got Laine has AM seems like a Jeter and would be off to bigger city in states the fastest. Just my take could be completely wrong.

 

[robertocarlos]

They suspended him for 20 games. It was overturned. Blame the PA and the arbitrator.

I think he means they should have suspended Wilson for the hit after he came back from the 20 game suspension. Wilson knew what he was doing and he clobbered the guy from behind.