Around the League - 2015/2016 Edition Part 2

Status
Not open for further replies.

Samzilla

Prust & Dorsett are
Apr 2, 2011
15,297
2,151
Affirmative action is sexism and is active discrimination. I don't care whether a ref is male or female, but I do care that the hiring process does not discriminate against anyone on the basis of being male/female.

No, it's not. Affirmative action is initiatives to make sure everyone qualified gets a fair shake at the job because otherwise people who are using biases (intentional or not) like gender or race to incorrectly eliminate otherwise qualified candidates will continue to do so. Affirmative action attempts to correct an already embedded handicap against certain groups. It's levelling the ice, not tilting it.

It's the same bs we see where people complain that gay people now have rights, and you hear groups essentially say, "well what about my right to discriminate against gay people?!?"
 

banme*

Registered User
Jun 7, 2014
2,573
0
Without knowing the statistics I would assume that that it is much more difficult for a women to work their way up and therefore the league should step in to level the playing field.

Stats on male vs. female referees at different levels would not be a meaningful way to prove whether it's more difficult to rank up as a female ref.

I prefer we just use robots.

Neutral as possible.

Wouldn't mess up every other call either.
 

Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
7,816
3,400
Burnaby
No, it's not. Affirmative action is initiatives to make sure everyone qualified gets a fair shake at the job because otherwise people who are using biases (intentional or not) like gender or race to incorrectly eliminate otherwise qualified candidates will continue to do so. Affirmative action attempts to correct an already embedded handicap against certain groups. It's levelling the ice, not tilting it.

Wrong. While the goal of affirmative action is to level the ice, in reality all it's doing is tilting the ice in the opposite direction. Go look up med school acceptance rates by race and scores. Asians are for whatever reason expected to do better than everyone, and get completely shafted. Then white people, then Hispanics and then Black students. Asians need the highest scores to get accepted into med school while Black students need the lowest. If affirmative action promoted equality, the acceptance rates would be level across the board (or close to it).

It's the same bs we see where people complain that gay people now have rights, and you hear groups essentially say, "well what about my right to discriminate against gay people?!?"

No, it really isn't. Nobody is asking for the right to deny employment to people just because of their race or gender. Well, there are some, but they're ****** and shouldn't be taken seriously. I'd argue their only friends who think they aren't ******** are backwards hicks with the same views as them. The vast majority of people against affirmative action are normal people like you and I, who just want the right to hire whoever is the most qualified for the job regardless of race. It isn't even close to people wanting the right to discriminate against gay people.

Now the question is how far do we push equality. There are a few problems here. While in lines of work like being a firefighter, I think there is absolutely no excuse to hire someone who is less qualified just because they are a certain gender or race. However, when we're talking about say a warehouse job where you have to do manual labor, is it okay to hire primarily men because men are in general stronger than women? I can understand the problem with excluding women from that line of work, as women have to work somewhere and it's not their fault that in general they aren't as physically strong as men, but I can also understand the viewpoint of the employers wanting their employees to be as efficient as possible. However on the other hand, how often do you see hosts compared to hostesses, or waiters compared to waitresses when you head to Cactus Club, I don't see SJWs getting upset at these establishment for hiring women because customers would prefer to deal with them (and admittedly look at them) than men.
 
Last edited:

mriswith

Registered User
Oct 12, 2011
4,280
7,693
No, it's not. Affirmative action is initiatives to make sure everyone qualified gets a fair shake at the job because otherwise people who are using biases (intentional or not) like gender or race to incorrectly eliminate otherwise qualified candidates will continue to do so. Affirmative action attempts to correct an already embedded handicap against certain groups. It's levelling the ice, not tilting it.

It's the same bs we see where people complain that gay people now have rights, and you hear groups essentially say, "well what about my right to discriminate against gay people?!?"
No, it is actually sexist. It is giving extra points in the hiring process to people on the sole basis of being female or male. That is the definition of sexism.

People do argue, like you, that sexism like affirmative action is appropriate when used to combat the invisible sexism that exists. But that's the real "boogeyman" around...
 

Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
7,816
3,400
Burnaby
No, it is actually sexist. It is giving extra points in the hiring process to people on the sole basis of being female or male. That is the definition of sexism.

People do argue, like you, that sexism like affirmative action is appropriate when used to combat the invisible sexism that exists. But that's the real "boogeyman" around...

It's only sexism when they do it!
 

Samzilla

Prust & Dorsett are
Apr 2, 2011
15,297
2,151
No, it is actually sexist. It is giving extra points in the hiring process to people on the sole basis of being female or male. That is the definition of sexism.

People do argue, like you, that sexism like affirmative action is appropriate when used to combat the invisible sexism that exists. But that's the real "boogeyman" around...

Agree to disagree. It's not giving extra points when those getting the "extra" points are already starting out with negative points.

Sorry MRA's, but combatting sexism is not sexist towards men. Time to deal with it.
 

Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
7,816
3,400
Burnaby
Agree to disagree. It's not giving extra points when those getting the "extra" points are already starting out with negative points.

Sorry MRA's, but combatting sexism is not sexist towards men. Time to deal with it.

What sexism are you referring to? Are women who are equally as qualified or more so than men being denied jobs in the western world? Giving someone a job over someone more qualified because they have different parts is sexism, it doesn't matter which way it's going. Men can be discriminated against, time to deal with it.

What if you're killing men to combat sexism, is that still not sexist because you're just combating sexism? What an absurd statement.
 

Pip

Registered User
Feb 2, 2012
69,198
8,536
Granduland
Agree to disagree. It's not giving extra points when those getting the "extra" points are already starting out with negative points.

Sorry MRA's, but combatting sexism is not sexist towards men. Time to deal with it.

This.
 

mriswith

Registered User
Oct 12, 2011
4,280
7,693
Agree to disagree. It's not giving extra points when those getting the "extra" points are already starting out with negative points.
Of course it is sexist. It is giving extra points on the sole basis of sex. The only difference is whether or not you think it is an acceptable form of sexism, which you do, and that's where we'll have to agree to disagree.

Sorry MRA's, but combatting sexism is not sexist towards men. Time to deal with it.
I didn't know what an MRA was and had to google it.

The biggest issue with institutionalized sexism and racism like affirmative action is that once the playing field is equalized, the institutionalized policy keeps going and keeps tilting the field. Look at third wave feminism for an example of exactly this principle in action.
 

banme*

Registered User
Jun 7, 2014
2,573
0
Levelling playing fields isn't sexism, it's justice. However it's completely illogical in what is basically a competition to figure out who is the best at something.

If I race Usain Bolt and I have to start at 50M to beat him, I probably shouldn't be considered the olympic champion when I win.
 

Intangibos

High-End Intangibos
Apr 5, 2010
7,816
3,400
Burnaby
Levelling playing fields isn't sexism, it's justice. However it's completely illogical in what is basically a competition to figure out who is the best at something.

If I race Usain Bolt and I have to start at 50M to beat him, I probably shouldn't be considered the olympic champion when I win.

The playing field isn't as tilted as it used to be, it's pretty damn level. Women are often smaller than men, so they have a harder time doing some physical jobs, and they can often be the target of abuse. Men can also be the target of abuse, and aren't necessarily as good at many jobs involving social skills for example.

Everyone is different, and that's not a bad thing. I might really want to be a jockey, but I'm 6 feet tall, I don't think I'm going to get the job. Should someone give me a job as a jockey just because they need to meet their quota of people 6 feet tall or taller?

Seriously, in what way do we need to level the playing field? Where are all these women who are better than men in their field that are getting kicked to the curb because they're women?
 

banme*

Registered User
Jun 7, 2014
2,573
0
The playing field isn't as tilted as it used to be, it's pretty damn level. Women are often smaller than men, so they have a harder time doing some physical jobs, and they can often be the target of abuse. Men can also be the target of abuse, and aren't necessarily as good at many jobs involving social skills for example.

Everyone is different, and that's not a bad thing. I might really want to be a jockey, but I'm 6 feet tall, I don't think I'm going to get the job. Should someone give me a job as a jockey just because they need to meet their quota of people 6 feet tall or taller?

Seriously, in what way do we need to level the playing field? Where are all these women who are better than men in their field that are getting kicked to the curb because they're women?

I was agreeing, like I said I don't think it has any place in a competition.
 

Billy Kvcmu

Registered User
Dec 5, 2014
27,831
16,504
West Vancouver
Remember the Flames were known as the “never stop hard working team" last season? They don't look like it at all now.
Maybe they think they are skillful enough that they can get away with being lazy.
 

Knight53

#6 #9 #17 #35 #40 #43
Jun 23, 2015
9,302
5,585
Vancouver
Feels good that the Flames suck again.

Don't want them to get a top 10 pick though.

The struggle is real.

Ya thats the downside of the flames sucking so hard is that they'll get a good pick where as the oilers can keep on getting top 5 picks year after year but they will never improve so it doesn't bother me.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad