Around the League '18-'19

[YP44]

Of the 3 teams that were always mentioned for Karlsson, SJ is sort of the most digestible. Tired of the high and mighty Lightning fans. Vegas, enough already. I mean, screw the Sharks, but it'll make them not winning the whole thing that much more enjoyable.

Dallas would have been the most Digestible to me

 

[johnjm22]

Look at Dorian's track record. I think most if not every GM could have gotten more. Hell Bergeron just got more for Pacioretty. Don't even have to look far as the Sens retained on Dion and sent him here for Shore and Gaborik (who was in the press box alot at the time)

Pacioretty signed. That's different.

Only a team that thinks they're a contender will trade for a player of EK's caliber. The problem with contending teams is they can't trade a top roster player in return because it defeats the purpose of them making the trade in the first place. And they usually don't have much of farm left.

Add to that the player has to be resigned to a huge cap hit (which most contending teams don't have the cap space for).

That's why these deals always become quantity for quality.

 

[BigKing]

Alright, but your idea of regression seems to be that things will continue to go wrong in terms of (can't replicate that season, older, core guys getting injured every year). Kopitar never gets injured and neither does brown. Carter doesn't get injured, neither does Doughty. Quick does I'll give you that.


I believe if the Kings remain healthy, and they get good secondary scoring then they will do well. Kovalchuk 60pts isn't impossible at all. I expect Iafallo to do better, Carter to be better now that he's had an offseason to heal, and Vilardi (the legit wild card) if he's healthy, he SHOULD preform well as well

Yes. I have outlier seasons that propelled the team last year v. multiple seasons of performance. Doesn't mean they can't match last year's totals but the odds are against it. We can talk about unsustainable shooting percentages and all of that to help with the regression discussion with Kopitar/Brown but adding Kovy could offset that, plus Toffoli's shooting percentage should rebound as it was historically low.

I don't lean as much on injuries because they can't be predicted but I'm just saying that these guys aren't spring chickens and that the Kings have experienced major injuries to core guys the last two seasons along with Kopitar's wrist thing and Toffoli's knee in '17. As far as I'm concerned, they are already dealing with injury issues since Vilardi is up in the air and Forbort is already banged up.

I agree with you that being healthy and getting secondary scoring means they will do well since that is pretty much the recipe for success league-wide. There will undoubtedly be a regression in the performance of the back-up goaltending as last year's numbers are unsustainable, plus Quick's goaltending while the Kings were on the PK was insane.

There are just a lot of components to the success of last year's team that will be hard to duplicate. Hopefully Kovalchuk, 82 from Carter and solid contributions from young players can overcome these regressions points because it is foolish to think that it just going to all go perfectly.

To be fair though, SJ's addition doesn't change the fact the Kings will most likely find out if they are playoff bound in the last week of the season: healthy or not. It is just a nut punch five days before the first pre-season game to see a rival handed a player like EK for nothing while we are worrying about Gabe Quasimodo's back.

 

[YP44]

Pacioretty signed. That's different.

Only a team that thinks they're a contender will trade for a player of EK's caliber. The problem with contending teams is they can't trade a top roster player in return because it defeats the purpose of them making the trade in the first place. And they usually don't have much of farm left.

Add to that the player has to be resigned to a huge cap hit (which most contending teams don't have the cap space for).

That's why these deals always become quantity for quantity.

I just think there was likely better quantity out there.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yes. I have outlier seasons that propelled the team last year v. multiple seasons of performance. Doesn't mean they can't match last year's totals but the odds are against it. We can talk about unsustainable shooting percentages and all of that to help with the regression discussion with Kopitar/Brown but adding Kovy could offset that, plus Toffoli's shooting percentage should rebound as it was historically low.

I don't lean as much on injuries because they can't be predicted but I'm just saying that these guys aren't spring chickens and that the Kings have experienced major injuries to core guys the last two seasons along with Kopitar's wrist thing and Toffoli's knee in '17. As far as I'm concerned, they are already dealing with injury issues since Vilardi is up in the air and Forbort is already banged up.

I agree with you that being healthy and getting secondary scoring means they will do well since that is pretty much the recipe for success league-wide. There will undoubtedly be a regression in the performance of the back-up goaltending as last year's numbers are unsustainable, plus Quick's goaltending while the Kings were on the PK was insane.

There are just a lot of components to the success of last year's team that will be hard to duplicate. Hopefully Kovalchuk, 82 from Carter and solid contributions from young players can overcome these regressions points because it is foolish to think that it just going to all go perfectly.

To be fair though, SJ's addition doesn't change the fact the Kings will most likely find out if they are playoff bound in the last week of the season: healthy or not. It is just a nut punch five days before the first pre-season game to see a rival handed a player like EK for nothing while we are worrying about Gabe Quasimodo's back.

I think the bigger picture rather than looking at just last season is important--Kings sure had some phenomenal seasons last year that are hard to duplicate, yet they still dealt with a major injury, and they ended up with 98 points. Previous year was the real bad one with 86. Prior to that? 102, 95, 100, 59-on-pace-for-100, and again 95. They seem very consistent from year to year despite those injuries and performances so I think it's ok to suggest they'll end up nearby even without the duplication of those guys and whether things go perfectly or not. Which is why the part Im most interested in is can these guys be healthy for the playoffs and how can they squeeze another 5 points in throughout the season...and as long as Kopitar/Doughty are healthy, we should be fine. The additions of Kovalchuk and (theoretically) vilardi/rookie x should be enough to 'keep pace' if not improve like other teams have.

If anything, 2017 was the outlier, as from 2012 till now, the Kings have been a 95-102 point team.

 

[johnjm22]

I just think there was likely better quantity out there.

Put yourself in the position of a team trying to acquire EK. What could you really give up that would make sense for you?

Reminds me of when Kovalchuk got traded. He was probably the second best goal scorer in the world at the time. He returned a 1st round pick and a bunch of nothing in a trade. Teams were too worried about his pending-UFA status to give up much for him.

 

[johnjm22]

The real winners today are the Colorado Avalanche.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Alright, but your idea of regression seems to be that things will continue to go wrong in terms of (can't replicate that season, older, core guys getting injured every year). Kopitar never gets injured and neither does brown. Carter doesn't get injured, neither does Doughty. Quick does I'll give you that.


I believe if the Kings remain healthy, and they get good secondary scoring then they will do well. Kovalchuk 60pts isn't impossible at all. I expect Iafallo to do better, Carter to be better now that he's had an offseason to heal, and Vilardi (the legit wild card) if he's healthy, he SHOULD preform well as well

Save a miraculous last minute recovery, it looks like Vilardi will miss camp and spend another year in juniors. People need to really temper their expectations here. If and when he does make it to the NHL, we’ll see what happens.

According to the manner in which KHL points typically translate to NHL, Kovalchuk could certainly score 60 points...if he plays a full 82 games. This is extraordinarily unlikely given his age and recent injuries. More likely, he plays 60ish games and pots 20-25-45.

Quick’s health may or may not hold together. Kopitar and Brown had uncharacteristically productive seasons last year, and they’re both in the twilight years of their primes. They’re both logical candidates for regression.

The kids - Pearson, Toffoli, Iafallo, Kempe - could turn into real difference makers this year, but that remains to be seen.

It’s just generally depressing to see a divisional rival land a major impact player like EK in his prime while we’re prayer circling on question marks like Kovalchuk and injury riddled prospects like Vilardi.

And it’s frustrating to see the same old “this is fine!” cup of coffee in a burning room posts. This plus the Patches trade should be a major bummer for every Kings fan.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The real winners today are the Colorado Avalanche.

Amen, these dudes just locked up #1.

Save a miraculous last minute recovery, it looks like Vilardi will miss camp and spend another year in juniors. People need to really temper their expectations here. If and when he does make it to the NHL, we’ll see what happens.

According to the manner in which KHL points typically translate to NHL, Kovalchuk could certainly score 60 points...if he plays a full 82 games. This is extraordinarily unlikely given his age and recent injuries. More likely, he plays 60ish games and pots 20-25-45.

Quick’s health may or may not hold together. Kopitar and Brown had uncharacteristically productive seasons last year, and they’re both in the twilight years of their primes. They’re both logical candidates for regression.

The kids - Pearson, Toffoli, Iafallo, Kempe - could turn into real difference makers this year, but that remains to be seen.

It’s just generally depressing to see a divisional rival land a major impact player like EK in his prime while we’re prayer circling on question marks like Kovalchuk and injury riddled prospects like Vilardi.

And it’s frustrating to see the same old “this is fine!” cup of coffee in a burning room posts. This plus the Patches trade should be a major bummer for every Kings fan.

Here's the only beef I have--the inability to see other team's issues.

EK is a huge add...but if we're going to complain about the age and health of Kings' players, you can't ignore the age and health of SJ players.

And sorry, not all of us are going to cry in our soup. I'm not bummed because I'm realistic about the Kings' situation. We should be pretty thankful frankly that we're still competitive in 2018 given what we've done. Meanwhile, the teams making these moves are going all in because they haven't been where we've been. You can't just ignore that.

 

[Sol]

Save a miraculous last minute recovery, it looks like Vilardi will miss camp and spend another year in juniors. People need to really temper their expectations here. If and when he does make it to the NHL, we’ll see what happens.

According to the manner in which KHL points typically translate to NHL, Kovalchuk could certainly score 60 points...if he plays a full 82 games. This is extraordinarily unlikely given his age and recent injuries. More likely, he plays 60ish games and pots 20-25-45.

Quick’s health may or may not hold together. Kopitar and Brown had uncharacteristically productive seasons last year, and they’re both in the twilight years of their primes. They’re both logical candidates for regression.

The kids - Pearson, Toffoli, Iafallo, Kempe - could turn into real difference makers this year, but that remains to be seen.

It’s just generally depressing to see a divisional rival land a major impact player like EK in his prime while we’re prayer circling on question marks like Kovalchuk and injury riddled prospects like Vilardi.

And it’s frustrating to see the same old “this is fine!” cup of coffee in a burning room posts. This plus the Patches trade should be a major bummer for every Kings fan.

You can't predict luck and injuries nor properly assume what kind of freak accident may occur. None of those players are injury prone. If anything, Quick is the one to worry about because of his major groin injuries. But he was healthy last year.


Also, if Vilardi is healthy. There's no reason for him to be put in juniors.

 

[johnjm22]

The Kings aren't done adding. Blake tweaked the roster all of last year. He's going to keep doing so.

The Kings will have plenty of space at the deadline.

Each year L.A. won the cup moves has to be made during the season.

 

[lexlavender]

The Kings aren't done adding. Blake tweaked the roster all of last year. He's going to keep doing so.

The Kings will have plenty of space at the deadline.

Each year L.A. won the cup moves has to be made during the season.

I can't even think of any one who's available at this point, the market seems pretty tapped out. Just gotta go through the year and see which teams drop out and start selling.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I can't even think of any one who's available at this point, the market seems pretty tapped out. Just gotta go through the year and see which teams drop out and start selling.

Ottawa isn’t done.

 

[BigKing]

I think the bigger picture rather than looking at just last season is important--Kings sure had some phenomenal seasons last year that are hard to duplicate, yet they still dealt with a major injury, and they ended up with 98 points. Previous year was the real bad one with 86. Prior to that? 102, 95, 100, 59-on-pace-for-100, and again 95. They seem very consistent from year to year despite those injuries and performances so I think it's ok to suggest they'll end up nearby even without the duplication of those guys and whether things go perfectly or not. Which is why the part Im most interested in is can these guys be healthy for the playoffs and how can they squeeze another 5 points in throughout the season...and as long as Kopitar/Doughty are healthy, we should be fine. The additions of Kovalchuk and (theoretically) vilardi/rookie x should be enough to 'keep pace' if not improve like other teams have.

If anything, 2017 was the outlier, as from 2012 till now, the Kings have been a 95-102 point team.

This year's roster has more in common with the "outlier" 2017 than it does with the teams from 2012, '13, '14 etc..., barring what Kovalchuk could bring.

Nothing being said here today is new. They are most likely a bubble team. If everything breaks right, they can challenge for the division, although today's trade really dampens that outlook.

At the same time, it wouldn't take much for these guys to finish 9th or 10th in the conference even without key injuries.

 

[YP44]

I can't even think of any one who's available at this point, the market seems pretty tapped out. Just gotta go through the year and see which teams drop out and start selling.

Duchene

 

[KingTrouty]

Remember all those Sens f***ers on the main board in 2015-16, 2016-17 (well, and any year prior and after)

Go to their board for sweet, sweet schadenfreude

 

[KingTrouty]

That stupid dip shit, with the avatar [gif] of the girl playing the guitar ("oooh, best avatar of the year")

Yeah, he's hanging from his door knob

 

[Kingsfan1]

If Blake goes for anyone on Ottawa it will be Stone not Duchene . My brother in law is a coach for USA hockey development so I was there this past weekend for the prospects tournament and we had brother in laws kids playing and coaching we sat at a table with Stevens , Blake and Greene and played Ultimate hold em at red rock .

I chopped it up a bit with Blake he said the team he has now is what they will start the season with . He thinks Iaffalo will make big difference on the 3rd line and he thinks with more system tweaks we shouldn’t have a problem . He said he expects Pearson and Toffoli to have better years than last and also expects Brown to repeat same year .

Matt Greene is a funny guy . I was betting 700 a hand he was betting 200 a hand but Blake and Stevens were betting 25 a hand lol I couldn’t wrap my head around that

 

[SettlementRichie10]

Amen, these dudes just locked up #1.




Here's the only beef I have--the inability to see other team's issues.

EK is a huge add...but if we're going to complain about the age and health of Kings' players, you can't ignore the age and health of SJ players.

And sorry, not all of us are going to cry in our soup. I'm not bummed because I'm realistic about the Kings' situation. We should be pretty thankful frankly that we're still competitive in 2018 given what we've done. Meanwhile, the teams making these moves are going all in because they haven't been where we've been. You can't just ignore that.

Other teams have issues; that is true. I suppose my consternation comes down to this; I don’t see the Kings 17/18 campaign as competitive. I see a team that was dragged into the playoffs on Herculean seasons from Kopitar and Doughty, and then promptly swept.

I’m excited to see what Kovalchuk can do, but overall, the writing’s on the wall for me. The Pacific is going to be very, very tough, and I don’t think the Kings have made enough moves to keep up.

No, the Sharks have not been to the promised land, but they’re consistently competitive year after year, and have seamlessly restocked from one core to the next. I obviously wouldn’t trade the two Cups for that, but I also reject the notion that the Kings’ current black hole of mediocrity is a necessary penance for those two Cups.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Other teams have issues; that is true. I suppose my consternation comes down to this; I don’t see the Kings 17/18 campaign as competitive. I see a team that was dragged into the playoffs on Herculean seasons from Kopitar and Doughty, and then promptly swept.

I’m excited to see what Kovalchuk can do, but overall, the writing’s on the wall for me. The Pacific is going to be very, very tough, and I don’t think the Kings have made enough moves to keep up.

No, the Sharks have not been to the promised land, but they’re consistently competitive year after year, and have seamlessly restocked from one core to the next. I obviously wouldn’t trade the two Cups for that, but I also reject the notion that the Kings’ current black hole of mediocrity is a necessary penance for those two Cups.

This is all a totally reasonable stance man. I'm not gonna argue with you on that because it's just opinions based on the facts we have.

I think in 17/18 most will agree with you that we were top heavy and that part isn't going to be duplicated; however, I ALSO feel the downer seasons from guys like injured Carter, Pearson, toffoli are also outliers. I feel like they've shown enough over the years to get the benefit of the doubt on their point finish. Whether that's enough to get past playoff teams? Shrug.

I'm not at all suggesting Wilson is bad or the Sharks' run is bad, but I disagree re: the price of a Cup. What teams have stayed competitive after doing so? All recent champs have crashed and burned in their near futures, even if some have picked themselves up and dusted off. So respectfully disagree here. But EK is almost certainly their last shot.

 

[johnjm22]

We don't even really know what this team's needs are yet. We know we needed a scorer and that was hopefully addressed with Kovaluchuk.

Beyond that I think the team needs to go through camp, see who makes the team, and reassess once we've seen the Kings play NHL games for a few months.

Personally, I think our biggest need is still center.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Put yourself in the position of a team trying to acquire EK. What could you really give up that would make sense for you?

Reminds me of when Kovalchuk got traded. He was probably the second best goal scorer in the world at the time. He returned a 1st round pick and a bunch of nothing in a trade. Teams were too worried about his pending-UFA status to give up much for him.

The cap makes every GM cautious. Used to be able to buy your way out of mistakes. One mistake might not cost you too much. Today, every GM is a small market GM in a non cap world. Have to be smart. Have to find value. Plus, with all the analytics, every GM is pretty much looking for the same player in every transaction. There's less this GM likes a big team, or a tough team, or a fast team. Everyone is looking for the same possession type guy. Big early season trades are almost non-existent. Everything comes down to the deadline or draft. The vast majority of UFA's re-sign. It's easy to mess up.

 

[Little Psycho]

it's Panarin's turn next

 

[Vamos Rafa]

Sharks going for it. Definitely rebuilding after this year.

LOL they will never rebuild. They want to keep being competitive to keep that fan attendance.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

This is all a totally reasonable stance man. I'm not gonna argue with you on that because it's just opinions based on the facts we have.

I think in 17/18 most will agree with you that we were top heavy and that part isn't going to be duplicated; however, I ALSO feel the downer seasons from guys like injured Carter, Pearson, toffoli are also outliers. I feel like they've shown enough over the years to get the benefit of the doubt on their point finish. Whether that's enough to get past playoff teams? Shrug.

I'm not at all suggesting Wilson is bad or the Sharks' run is bad, but I disagree re: the price of a Cup. What teams have stayed competitive after doing so? All recent champs have crashed and burned in their near futures, even if some have picked themselves up and dusted off. So respectfully disagree here. But EK is almost certainly their last shot.

At the very least, I’m excited to ramp up my “Karlsson will never win a championship” troll on the main boards.