Around Hockey XV (All Non-Jackets Hockey talk in here)

[Samkow]

EDIT: nvm, for now anyways

I'm happy to say I really think they're going to screw this up.

 

[EspenK]

Interesting to read about this saga. Thing that strikes me is the fact that the Pens have about 25 mill committed to just 3 guys beginning with the new season, 30 if you add in Neal and 35 or so to re-sign Fleury or land a comparable the following year. That's roughly 45-50% of the cap for 2015-16. So the other guys are going to be playing for peanuts or will be young guys. New guy is definitely going to have his work cut out for him.

 

[Hugg]

I can't pretend I didn't take great pleasure in reading the press conference thread on the Pens forum. When they all find out Bylsma isn't fired yet...just pure schadenfreude.

 

[major major]

Interesting to read about this saga. Thing that strikes me is the fact that the Pens have about 25 mill committed to just 3 guys beginning with the new season, 30 if you add in Neal and 35 or so to re-sign Fleury or land a comparable the following year. That's roughly 45-50% of the cap for 2015-16. So the other guys are going to be playing for peanuts or will be young guys. New guy is definitely going to have his work cut out for him.

I think for the long term outlook at forward the Penguins are still in as good a salary position as any other team. Paying Malkin and Crosby a combined $18m sounds like a lot, but its nonetheless as much as a $10m discount on what the two would get in the open market.

More worrying for them is that Shero wasn't a good drafter, at least when it comes to goal scorers.

 

[pete goegan]

I love Lucic.

Not picking on you, CBJB, just using your post as a starting point:

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Paul-Stewart/Lucic-Is-A-Fraudulent-Tough-Guy/196/60086

Stewart, former ref and NHL tough guy, lays it out.

 

[EspenK]

I think for the long term outlook at forward the Penguins are still in as good a salary position as any other team. Paying Malkin and Crosby a combined $18m sounds like a lot, but its nonetheless as much as a $10m discount on what the two would get in the open market.

More worrying for them is that Shero wasn't a good drafter, at least when it comes to goal scorers.

Yeah but they aren't on the open market and along with Letang will command 35% of next years cap. I haven't checked but other than Getzlaff & Perry I don't think there is a as highly paid duo in the league. And when you throw in Letang wow. I don't agree that they are in as good a salary position as others. From a talent perspective they are at the top but paying a solid supporting cast will be difficult imo.

 

[Sore Loser]

Will the Penguins hire Scott Howson as their new GM?

Somewhere, Mayor Bee is dreaming this thought ...

 

[Mayor Bee]

Will the Penguins hire Scott Howson as their new GM?

Somewhere, Mayor Bee is dreaming this thought ...

That's not a dream, that's a nightmare. It would end in one of three scenarios.

1) Pittsburgh success - gag
2) Pittsburgh failure - that would then get projected onto the already-existent revisionism that we see with Columbus
3) Pittsburgh success with a big piece being moved - it's dismissed because that's what's supposed to happen anyway

It's like what Dave Brown once said about fighting small guys like Tie Domi: "I have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Kick his *** and you're supposed to because of the size difference, lose to him and you look terrible." Maybe it wasn't Dave Brown, but it was a decent-sized enforcer who said that.

 

[EspenK]

well the Kings-Ducks game was exciting for the first few minutes. Ugh. Kings completely dismantling the Ducks.

 

[CBJWerenski8]

And Gaborik

 

[Jyrki]

kings mercilessly boiling the ducks

man

 

[Cash for Nash]

kings mercilessly boiling the ducks

man

I'm getting real sick of the CBJ contributing to the glory of the LA Kings. Puke...

 

[Jyrki]

I'm getting real sick of the CBJ contributing to the glory of the LA Kings. Puke...

Ah well, at least we only gave them guys who didn't do much here. Imagine being a Flyers fan and watching Carter + Richards win in LA...

 

[Cash for Nash]

Ah well, at least we only gave them guys who didn't do much here. Imagine being a Flyers fan and watching Carter + Richards win in LA...

Safe to say they've really boiled the CBJ and Flyers on trades lol.

 

[Sore Loser]

The Jeff ****** trade doesn't hurt because we got a nice return on him. The Gaborik trade will only hurt for a little while, until we see what we get out of the deal. Then - combined with how good we are next year - people will begin to forget.

 

[Sore Loser]

That's not a dream, that's a nightmare. It would end in one of three scenarios.

1) Pittsburgh success - gag
2) Pittsburgh failure - that would then get projected onto the already-existent revisionism that we see with Columbus
3) Pittsburgh success with a big piece being moved - it's dismissed because that's what's supposed to happen anyway

It's like what Dave Brown once said about fighting small guys like Tie Domi: "I have nothing to gain and everything to lose. Kick his *** and you're supposed to because of the size difference, lose to him and you look terrible." Maybe it wasn't Dave Brown, but it was a decent-sized enforcer who said that.

I can't disagree with anything you say here.

My money is on George McPhee.

 

[Samkow]

If we repeat "he didn't fit" enough, does it eventually become true?

 

[Samkow]

The Jeff ****** trade doesn't hurt because we got a nice return on him. The Gaborik trade will only hurt for a little while, until we see what we get out of the deal. Then - combined with how good we are next year - people will begin to forget.

Regardless of whether that 2nd turns into a Boone Jenner/Kevin Lynch and that 3rd turns into a Olivier Bjorkstrand/Jake Hansen, it'll be a bad trade in every aspect. Indefensible at this point and repeating "he didn't fit" 50,000 times won't make it so.

 

[EDM]

Yes, Gabby is making JD and JK look worse and worse. The trade clearly was nothing more than a salary dump. Clearly the trade was not an attempt to trade Gabby only if they got something special for him. For teh Kings, it has been a steal.

 

[Jyrki]

Yes, Gabby is making JD and JK look worse and worse. The trade clearly was nothing more than a salary dump. Clearly the trade was not an attempt to trade Gabby only if they got something special for him. For teh Kings, it has been a steal.

Let's be fair here, though - at the time, the trade looked like a deal similar to Derek Roy to VAN or Jagr to BOS last year. I was pretty sure Gaborik would light the lamp if he went to a contender, but the price wasn't low just because JD/JK misjudged him - rather, he seemed like a has-been star, injury prone, soft player who you wouldn't be sure what you'd get from him. That's why trades are made in the first place.

 

[Sore Loser]

Regardless of whether that 2nd turns into a Boone Jenner/Kevin Lynch and that 3rd turns into a Olivier Bjorkstrand/Jake Hansen, it'll be a bad trade in every aspect. Indefensible at this point and repeating "he didn't fit" 50,000 times won't make it so.

I thought we were done with that debate? I was big enough to move on, you should do the same and stop verbally punishing me for making (and standing by) my point. It's a message board, I'm entitled to my perspective, and didn't break any rules in defending it.

Let's be fair here, though - at the time, the trade looked like a deal similar to Derek Roy to VAN or Jagr to BOS last year. I was pretty sure Gaborik would light the lamp if he went to a contender, but the price wasn't low just because JD/JK misjudged him - rather, he seemed like a has-been star, injury prone, soft player who you wouldn't be sure what you'd get from him. That's why trades are made in the first place.

This is exactly correct. How many times in history has a team added one or two key pieces that has put them over the top? It happens frequently ... and one has to always realize that on the other side of that, is the team that sent away said player. I don't see how we took any steps back by making that deal.

 

[major major]

Will the Penguins hire Scott Howson as their new GM?

Somewhere, Mayor Bee is dreaming this thought ...

I don't know if Howson would be the best for the Pittsburgh gig. Through drafting and trades Howson was great at adding good players to the organization, but I never thought he was good at completely filling out a lineup (Colton Gillies, anyone? Steve Mason?) and solving team's immediate needs, which is essentially what the Pittsburgh job entails.

The Vancouver job on the other hand.... They need to find a motherlode of talent without the benefit of top picks. Turning late round picks into NHL players was Howson's best mark of distinction.

 

[EspenK]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=452386

Kings LW Marian Gaborik, who had a goal and an assist. Gaborik was a dominant performer in the series, scoring six goals and four assists in seven games. Gaborik leads the playoffs with nine goals and, since arriving in a trade from Columbus, he's put up 14 goals and 17 assists in 32 (regular season plus playoff) games.

Maybe he wasn't the issue?

 

[CBJSlash]

We were clearly in play for another big player at the deadline. The choice was made to move Gaborik and his salary so we could fit someone else in as it got closer to the deadline. If we didn't move Gabby to LA when we did, they would have moved on and we had no other takers. If we kept him on the roster, we couldn't have even been in conversations about another player because we had no cap space.

The gamble was to move Gaborik and not make a trade later vs. keep Gaborik a few hours longer and maybe not move him if we needed to.


He was clearly not healthy when we had him. He got healthy.

 

[Double-Shift Lasse]

I thought we were done with that debate?

Then stop participating in it.

Until The Kings are eliminated and/or Gaborik stops playing well, here's what we're going to have:

Poster A: Man it sucks watching Gabby play so well for another team.
Poster B: It was a good trade because of the return and Gabby being hurt here.
Poster C (or A again): It was selling low on a player that might have helped the Jackets in these playoffs.
Poster D (or B): But Boone Jenner.
Poster A, C or E: Points to Gaborik's stats in the playoffs, the closeness of the series with Pittsburgh and the season record against the Rangers. And the weak rationale offered by the Jackets FO.

Get worked up into a lather. Rinse. Repeat.