Armchair GMs: What moves would you make to maximize the roster?

[Claypool]

As for the production, Nyquist has a better PPG in both the AHL and NHL. Difference isn't huge, at least not in the NHL, but it highlights to me the weirdness of saying Nyquist is the expendable one. The fact Gus had 54 points and it was considered an 'off' year for him, while Tatar had 56 points and everyone's raving about his year shows that Nyquist has more potential in him than Tatar has, imo. Imagine if Gus comes close to his 13-14 performance for a full season?

Expectations for Nyquist were hirer than Tatar coming into this season. You can go back and read all the threads and posts about how everyone wanted to trade Tatar. They look pretty dumb right now. That's all there is to it. It doesn't show Nyquist has more potential or that Tatar won't keep getting better. People will be disappointed if Tatar doesn't pot 30 this year. I don't think anyone is expecting Gus to hit 30. I guess Tatar has more goalscoring potential now?

Your argument is based entirely on a 50-game stint two yeas ago that has a low chance of being replicated.

 

[Peter Tosh]

Clearly Tats, Goose, Jurco, Pulks, Mantha, Svechnikov, Abdelkader, Helm, AA, Bert and Franzen makes our wing look crowded in the not so distant future, but pulling the trigger right now, before we know the true potential of our prospects, is too early IMO. The situation reminds me of the trade with Calgary that never happened (Tats & Goose for Bouwmeester). The timing is just not good right now and we would risk overpaying wastly and potentially making another Adam Oates deal.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Expectations for Nyquist were hirer than Tatar coming into this season. You can go back and read all the threads and posts about how everyone wanted to trade Tatar. They look pretty dumb right now. That's all there is to it. It doesn't show Nyquist has more potential or that Tatar won't keep getting better. People will be disappointed if Tatar doesn't pot 30 this year. I don't think anyone is expecting Gus to hit 30. I guess Tatar has more goalscoring potential now?

Your argument is based entirely on a 50-game stint two yeas ago that has a low chance of being replicated.

Well.. no. Like I've said. Nyquist produced more in the AHL (1.04 PPG vs. 0.74) and has produced more in the NHL (0.64 PPG vs. 0.57). It's hundreds of games where Nyquist has produced more.

Additionally, yes, Nyquist had about a 50-game "stint" (a stint, really? 69 points in 72 games AHL+NHL) that was above and beyond anything that Tatar has done. It happened. It's like 30% of Nyquist's entire NHL career up to this point.
And during that stretch he was one of the best players in the entire NHL. Call it unlikely to be replicated, it is, but even if he reaches almost that level for an entire season we're talking about a star player.

I have an easier time believing that a guy who has done something in the past can do it again, rather than believing someone who has never done it will be able to. Nyquist scored at an insane rate with guys like Legwand, Franzen, Andersson, Sheahan and Abdelkader on his line. Tatar's best hockey of his career has come with Datsyuk. Coincidence? And could it also not be more than random chance that Nyquist struggles a little bit at the same as he's playing with a Zetterberg who is going through the worst stretch of his career?

Basically we went from "Nyquist is untouchable, we should trade Tatar" to "Tatar is untouchable, we should trade Nyquist" in the span of 1 year and I think that is an overreaction to a season where 2 point seperated them. Expectations were different, sure, but they weren't so different. Both were going into their sophomore years and it's not Nyquist's faults that he set the bar very, very high for himself.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Well.. no. Like I've said. Nyquist produced more in the AHL (1.04 PPG vs. 0.74) and has produced more in the NHL (0.64 PPG vs. 0.57). It's hundreds of games where Nyquist has produced more.

tatar did it while being younger. nyquist explosion season happened on nyquist's 24 yr old season. that is next season for tatar.

nyquist's had 2 full seasons and + 15 games after the age 22 in AHL. tatar had only one.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Maybe we can offer Chicago some cap relief and take Hjalmarsson off their hands?

I would be in favor of this 100% and I approve this message. I would love to have Hjalmarsson wearing the winged wheel.

 

[Leadzedder]

Clearly Tats, Goose, Jurco, Pulks, Mantha, Svechnikov, Abdelkader, Helm, AA, Bert and Franzen makes our wing look crowded in the not so distant future, but pulling the trigger right now, before we know the true potential of our prospects, is too early IMO. The situation reminds me of the trade with Calgary that never happened (Tats & Goose for Bouwmeester). The timing is just not good right now and we would risk overpaying wastly and potentially making another Adam Oates deal.

Agreed. Selling now on anyone like Pulk, Jurco, Mantha, etc would be a bad idea. Their value to us and other teams could be much higher soon.

The way I see it... is we should be going for a cup this year.

The young guys are coming. On forward and defence. We have the 4 dman prospects losing waiver eligibility next off season. Room should be made for 2 of the 4 (assuming they continue to improve)

Larkin, Mantha, Athanisiou (?), possibly Bertuzzi and Nosek will likely be ready. We need some room.

This year (trade deadline-ish) I get Big Buf or someone of that nature / impact. I slide Ericsson to 3rd pair. I trade from this group of assets - Quincey, Smith, Kindl, Jurco, Pulkkinen (hopefully not), 1st, 2nd. Possibly Nyqvist (again, hopefully not) I don't include a Helm throw in as the cup should be the goal this year.

For playoffs the line could be this...

Z, Dats, Abdel
Franz (if he makes it), Richards, Tatar
Nyquist, Sheahan, Jurc / Pulk
Helm, Glending, Miller
Andersson
Larkin ready for an opening

Kron, Big Buf
Deke, Green
Ericsson, Smith / Kindl

Goalies



Over next summer I remove Kindl, Smith, Quincey (assuming Big Buf is extended. This gives room for a young defence man for the 6 and 7 spots.

Up front... Andersson, Miller, Richards and one of Jurc / Pulk are gone. Replaced by Larkin, Mantha, Athanisiou, and probably Lil Bert or nosek.

6 rookies next year. But we take our run at the cup this year.

I keep Helm and Abdelgader unless they ask for too much. I think you need these 2 guys to bridge the old core and the new core coming up.

Other factors for next year... Franzen might be gone. Howard could be traded. That's 9.3 million in capspace there so there's options.


Next year...

Z, Dats, Abdel
Nyq Sheahan, Tatar
Pulkinnen, Larkin, Mantha
Helm, Glen, Athanisiou
Bert/ Nosek

Kron, Buf
Deke, Green
Ericsson, Ouellet
March/ Jensen

Mrazek
Howard / Shooter Tutor



And since this is fantasy gm'ing. I'd plan to move Howard (if Mrazek is as good as we hope this year). Use that 9.3 million on someone highend. Not sure who that would be but I'd be using that capspace somewhere.

 

[Shaman464]

Trading for a 30 year old Buff when he's only got one more year left of control would be a mistake. First whatever he's paid he's very unlikely to live up to, as his game is more muscle than mind. Second because the Jets are in a seller's market if they do sell him, so will want a king's ransom of young, controllable talent. They won't take our **** contracts and trash prospects/players for him. Any deal with him will start around Larkin/Svechnikov and will have many other pieces.

 

[johnnyarmstrong]

Kronwall is no longer a number one D. Green is the closest thing to a one D that we have. We need to trade depth for a one D. I like the idea of Faulk.

 

[Leadzedder]

Trading for a 30 year old Buff when he's only got one more year left of control would be a mistake. First whatever he's paid he's very unlikely to live up to, as his game is more muscle than mind. Second because the Jets are in a seller's market if they do sell him, so will want a king's ransom of young, controllable talent. They won't take our **** contracts and trash prospects/players for him. Any deal with him will start around Larkin/Svechnikov and will have many other pieces.

I was gonna type out a proper response but to save time I'll just say I disagree with everything you said.

If you think a deal for a ufa deadline dman starts with A top 10 nhl prospect then no need debating it. The idea behind my post was to say we need to ship out some pieces for a kronwall partner. If you don't think that's doable, ok.


Furthermore, I listed nyquist. Jurco. Pulk. Smith. 1st. And your reply "our **** contracts". Come on man.

 

[Shaman464]

I was gonna type out a proper response but to save time I'll just say I disagree with everything you said.

If you think a deal for a ufa deadline dman starts with A top 10 nhl prospect then no need debating it. The idea behind my post was to say we need to ship out some pieces for a kronwall partner. If you don't think that's doable, ok.


Furthermore, I listed nyquist. Jurco. Pulk. Smith. 1st. And your reply "our **** contracts". Come on man.

The only decent pieces in that are Nyquist and the first. Pulkks and Jurco are at the bottom of their value. So lets just look at the best pieces: At this point it's as likely Buff will score as many points as Nyquist as not. The first is going to be a lower first, so not a lot of value per se there either. So what do the Jets get? A winger that would be their third best winger, two boom/bust prospects without wavier options, a defenseman who most Wing fans want to railroad out of Detroit ASAP and a low first. The prospects offer nothing because they have one of the best pools in the league. The first is pretty much an add on.

The Jets reject this, and I thank Jesus they do.

 

[Leadzedder]

Right on.

So no possibly way to get a kronwall partner I guess then. Not even for nyq. Smith. Pulk. Jurco and a first. Which by the way I wasn't suggesting we package. Lol.

 

[Shaman464]

Right on.

So no possibly way to get a kronwall partner I guess then. Not even for nyq. Smith. Pulk. Jurco and a first. Which by the way I wasn't suggesting we package. Lol.

A #1B dman will require a package of one of Larkin or Svechnikov, a first and a roster player, and probably more in the case of Buff because we would need to send cap space over to them to make room for him.

Package that the Jets would want:
Larkin+Franzen (cap relief)+Pulkks+1st+AA/Bert/etc

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

Kronwall is no longer a number one D. Green is the closest thing to a one D that we have. We need to trade depth for a one D. I like the idea of Faulk.

Faulk isn't going anywhere. He's the cornerstone to Carolina's rebuild.

 

[Leadzedder]

We disagree.

Also. Franzen would never be added as a cap dump due to his contract / condition.

Anyway. I'll bow out. Detroit fans are too tough of negotiators. I'll check in with jet fans.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

A #1B dman will require a package of one of Larkin or Svechnikov, a first and a roster player, and probably more in the case of Buff because we would need to send cap space over to them to make room for him.

Package that the Jets would want:
Larkin+Franzen (cap relief)+Pulkks+1st+AA/Bert/etc

Wow. There is no way in hell that is anywhere close to the price.

Or if that is the price... Winnipeg can keep their 300 lb offensive D who is gonna hit a wall like the fist of an angry god when he slows down at all that is under control for one season.

I mean, holy god, Dougie Hamilton got traded for a 1st and two 2nds. Larkin + 1st is already a great deal more valuable than that and Dougie Hamilton is more valuable than Buff based on age and talent.

I don't get this crazy fixation on Dustin Byfuglien. He's a good player, but he's not someone you move several pieces for, particularly if he's a UFA at the end of the year.

If you're willing to offer up Larkin++, you need to be shooting much higher than a soon to be UFA who is 30 and plays a physical game that stands almost zero chance of holding up over the term of a reasonable extension. Everyone thought Seabrooks extension looks bad. I shudder to think of what a Big Buff extension will look like in year 3 or 4.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Kronwall is no longer a number one D. Green is the closest thing to a one D that we have. We need to trade depth for a one D. I like the idea of Faulk.

I like the idea of Faulk too but he will definitely take a monster package.

However, you're crazy if you are discounting Kronner as a #1D and putting Mike Green up as the best alternative. Green is undoubtedly an elite offensive D. He's also Swiss cheese on D, which is kind of important when you're a defenseman.

How about we don't give Kronwall a guy like Jonathan Ericsson as his partner? I'm sure he'd look more like a #1D if he didn't have to babysit Big Rig.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

A #1B dman will require a package of one of Larkin or Svechnikov, a first and a roster player, and probably more in the case of Buff because we would need to send cap space over to them to make room for him.

Package that the Jets would want:
Larkin+Franzen (cap relief)+Pulkks+1st+AA/Bert/etc

LOL In what world would Byfuglien cost any where near that, If Chevy think he can get any where near that package for Byfuglien he's just not being realistic. We're not trading for Faulk or Ekman Larsson or Weber, Karlsson, Shattenkirk it would be for big buff.

 

[Shaman464]

Wow. There is no way in hell that is anywhere close to the price.

Or if that is the price... Winnipeg can keep their 300 lb offensive D who is gonna hit a wall like the fist of an angry god when he slows down at all that is under control for one season.

I mean, holy god, Dougie Hamilton got traded for a 1st and two 2nds. Larkin + 1st is already a great deal more valuable than that and Dougie Hamilton is more valuable than Buff based on age and talent.

I don't get this crazy fixation on Dustin Byfuglien. He's a good player, but he's not someone you move several pieces for, particularly if he's a UFA at the end of the year.

If you're willing to offer up Larkin++, you need to be shooting much higher than a soon to be UFA who is 30 and plays a physical game that stands almost zero chance of holding up over the term of a reasonable extension. Everyone thought Seabrooks extension looks bad. I shudder to think of what a Big Buff extension will look like in year 3 or 4.

LOL In what world would Byfuglien cost any where near that, If Chevy think he can get any where near that package for Byfuglien he's just not being realistic. We're not trading for Faulk or Ekman Larsson or Weber, Karlsson, Shattenkirk it would be for big buff.

First we can't use Boston's GM's work as an indication, based on his work last spring he was either really high or really stupid.

The problem is that Detroit has to get the Jets to talk back cap space. That takes means that they have to take back a big contract and would use that as leverage.

If Detroit had the space they would have to trade Larkin+1st for Buff. Because they have to get cap relief they have to sweeten the deal. I forgot to put that the Jets would have to send something back, a prospect of a decent caliber, but in the end they will get a kings ransom for Buff.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

LOL In what world would Byfuglien cost any where near that, If Chevy think he can get any where near that package for Byfuglien he's just not being realistic. We're not trading for Faulk or Ekman Larsson or Weber, Karlsson, Shattenkirk it would be for big buff.

Yeah all that for an Older dman on a rental year?

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I really dislike the Goose and Tats for Jay-Bo rumor, since it has never been confirmed by the Wings. Who have confirmed Jurco, Sheahan and a second was offered a deal they feel was better than what Calgary took and they are right about in my opinon... The confirmed package not surprisingly was what was said for a year. Then one day the package changed to Tatar and Nyquist. I find that to be complete malarkey. Did they discuss those two players with Calgary? I am sure they did, but it doesn't scan at all that they legitimately offered both of them at the same time....

 

[Shaman464]

Wow. There is no way in hell that is anywhere close to the price.

Or if that is the price... Winnipeg can keep their 300 lb offensive D who is gonna hit a wall like the fist of an angry god when he slows down at all that is under control for one season.

I mean, holy god, Dougie Hamilton got traded for a 1st and two 2nds. Larkin + 1st is already a great deal more valuable than that and Dougie Hamilton is more valuable than Buff based on age and talent.

I don't get this crazy fixation on Dustin Byfuglien. He's a good player, but he's not someone you move several pieces for, particularly if he's a UFA at the end of the year.

If you're willing to offer up Larkin++, you need to be shooting much higher than a soon to be UFA who is 30 and plays a physical game that stands almost zero chance of holding up over the term of a reasonable extension. Everyone thought Seabrooks extension looks bad. I shudder to think of what a Big Buff extension will look like in year 3 or 4.

Yeah all that for an Older dman on a rental year?

Gustad got a 1st. And he's going to be the best available d-man.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

First we can't use Boston's GM's work as an indication, based on his work last spring he was either really high or really stupid.

The problem is that Detroit has to get the Jets to talk back cap space. That takes means that they have to take back a big contract and would use that as leverage.

If Detroit had the space they would have to trade Larkin+1st for Buff. Because they have to get cap relief they have to sweeten the deal. I forgot to put that the Jets would have to send something back, a prospect of a decent caliber, but in the end they will get a kings ransom for Buff.

A guy in his walk year is not producing a top 10 prospect in hockey, it has never happened and it isn't going to.

Buff could have them demanding Mantha who certainly fits everything the Jets generally look for. But we don't have to worry about them asking for Larkin seriously, it isn't happening. Trouba would be much closer to that and we still wouldn't touch it and probably neither would Winnipeg at that point to be fair.

Buff will generate a nice return, we have an obvious Cap dump they would be interested in as they will have playoff intentions even while moving him. Quincey can go back play the left along with a first and one of our other prospects or young forwards.

The problem on Buff is if we have back-channeled his agent which I am sure we would do while moving on him and his salary demands are outrageous, I don't see the Wings pursuing him. If they can fit him into their salary structure, he is a tremendous pickup, especially in Blashill's system.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

First we can't use Boston's GM's work as an indication, based on his work last spring he was either really high or really stupid.

The problem is that Detroit has to get the Jets to talk back cap space. That takes means that they have to take back a big contract and would use that as leverage.

If Detroit had the space they would have to trade Larkin+1st for Buff. Because they have to get cap relief they have to sweeten the deal. I forgot to put that the Jets would have to send something back, a prospect of a decent caliber, but in the end they will get a kings ransom for Buff.

But they won't. He's 30, a UFA at the end of the year, and plays a game that is a matter of time before it falls off a cliff.

Larkin and a first is far too much for UFA Buff as it stands.

And honestly, if we were to include a cap dump, it would be a defenseman to replace Buff for Winnipeg. Quincey or Kindl or Smith. It wouldn't be the prime cap recapture problem we have.

If they deal him, they get a first and a prospect on the level of AA or little Bert, not a teams top prospect.

 

[Shaman464]

A guy in his walk year is not producing a top 10 prospect in hockey, it has never happened and it isn't going to.

Buff could have them demanding Mantha who certainly fits everything the Jets generally look for. But we don't have to worry about them asking for Larkin seriously, it isn't happening. Trouba would be much closer to that and we still wouldn't touch it and probably neither would Winnipeg at that point to be fair.

Buff will generate a nice return, we have an obvious Cap dump they would be interested in as they will have playoff intentions even while moving him. Quincey can go back play the left along with a first and one of our other prospects or young forwards.

The problem on Buff is if we have back-channeled his agent which I am sure we would do while moving on him and his salary demands are outrageous, I don't see the Wings pursuing him. If they can fit him into their salary structure, he is a tremendous pickup, especially in Blashill's system.

He actually isn't that good of a pickup though. He's expensive and pretty one dimensional. The Wings have Green who takes the role he would fill, and Kronwall is no slouch offensively. They need a defensive stalwart to line up with Kronwall, and that wouldn't cost nearly as much as Buff. So if Holland does feel the need to sell off prospects I would only be okay with it being for a young d-man under team control for a lot of years, not for a past 30 year old in line for his big pay day.

 

[Shaman464]

But they won't. He's 30, a UFA at the end of the year, and plays a game that is a matter of time before it falls off a cliff.

Larkin and a first is far too much for UFA Buff as it stands.

And honestly, if we were to include a cap dump, it would be a defenseman to replace Buff for Winnipeg. Quincey or Kindl or Smith. It wouldn't be the prime cap recapture problem we have.

If they deal him, they get a first and a prospect on the level of AA or little Bert, not a teams top prospect.

The Jets won't trade for prospects that wouldn't crack their top 20.