Armchair GMs: What moves would you make to maximize the roster?

[RedMachine87]

Given the state of the Red Wing’s organization, and the crossroads it currently finds itself at, I thought this would make for an interesting thread. What would your non-emotional strategy be to maximize the roster now and in the future?

Which players from the old guard do you see as an integral part of the team going forward? Which players are on the bubble and which players are on the trading block? How would you go about phasing in the prospects who are pushing to make the big club?

____________________________________________________________________________________

IMO the depth up front is great, but I still see glaring holes in the short to midterm on the back end. If I were GM, I would categorize our players along these lines:

Integral: Z, Datsyuk, Kronwall, DK, Tatar or Nyquist, Glendening, Mrazek, Larkin

Bubble: Pulkinnen, Jurco, Ferraro, Nosek, Jensen, Ouellet, Marchenko, Smith, Sheahan, Abdelkader

Expendable: One of Nyquist/Tatar/Pulu, Kindl, Ericsson, Quincey, Helm, Franzen, Anderson

Undetermined: Green, AA, Bertuzzi, Mantha, Sproul, Russo, other prospects...

Then I would seek to add more balance to our organization by trading from a position of strength (small scoring wingers like Nyquist or Tatar or Pulkinnen could potentially land a good top four dman or a high-end pick or defensive prospect). Helm, and the other veterans listed, would also be on the trading block, or allowed to walk if I couldn't get a fair return. Picks and/or prospects would be OK if the position has sufficient depth to support it.

Thoughts?

Click to read more...

 

[Flowah]

Andersson, Ferraro, Ouellet, Nyquist, Sproul, Helm, Quincey, Smith/Kindl. Trade em all, pick one of Smith/Kindl.

Ouellet: I really like what I see from Jensen and he looked good last preseason too. Plus he's a righty. I keep Marchy over XO for probably bad reasons. A righty, a Russian, and he has just shown me a few times a level of offensive thinking that I haven't from XO. It has definitely gotten him into trouble with pinches and holding on to the puck too long, but I want to nurture it and make it grow.

Nyquist: I think Tats generates more offense on his own. I think Pulks is a gamble but has a higher ceiling. I don't think he busts, just may not reach the heights of his potential. I'd rather take the gamble of an elite shooter with a shoot first, shoot always mentality who also has some speed.

Sproul: he's running out of options and he just hasn't been impressive whether in GR or in camps or preseason. Might be his value is too low and we should just hold onto him though.

Helm: just too injury prone. Whether it's training or just plain old bad luck, he just can't seem to stay healthy. I don't believe in curses but dude is cursed. Sell if he has some value.

Quincey: Gets paid too much for what he does as an okay middle pairing dude who is probably now a bottom pairing dude since Green/DDK is the middle pairing for the time being. Doesn't do much that a kid can't do for less and with more speed and more potential to grow into. Especially with the cap likely not to go up thanks to the Canadian dollar, we need to be saving some money.

One of Smith/Kindl. They fill sort of the same role in different ways. A bottom pairing d-man with flashes of brilliance. If I had to choose I probably dump Smith just because he seems to be more inclined to be a 4th forward than a d-man. Kindl generates his offense on the back end more like a traditional defensemen which I think we need. Plus I'm sorta banking on a coaching change being just what he needed. Either way they've both had a lot of time in the league now and just haven't met the billing. One of them can easily go.

I don't know what kind of return these guys get. I hope it's decent. I also know none of this is likely to happen.

 

[TheMule93]

I'm not sure what i'd do personally, but I know for a fact that we have way too many prospects/players that we know what do with, and trading some of them for something we can actually use makes enough sense that Holland wont actually do it

 

[Spitfire11]

Andersson, Ferraro, Ouellet, Nyquist, Sproul, Helm, Quincey, Smith/Kindl. Trade em all, pick one of Smith/Kindl.

Ouellet: I really like what I see from Jensen and he looked good last preseason too. Plus he's a righty. I keep Marchy over XO for probably bad reasons. A righty, a Russian, and he has just shown me a few times a level of offensive thinking that I haven't from XO. It has definitely gotten him into trouble with pinches and holding on to the puck too long, but I want to nurture it and make it grow.

Nyquist: I think Tats generates more offense on his own. I think Pulks is a gamble but has a higher ceiling. I don't think he busts, just may not reach the heights of his potential. I'd rather take the gamble of an elite shooter with a shoot first, shoot always mentality who also has some speed.

Sproul: he's running out of options and he just hasn't been impressive whether in GR or in camps or preseason. Might be his value is too low and we should just hold onto him though.

Helm: just too injury prone. Whether it's training or just plain old bad luck, he just can't seem to stay healthy. I don't believe in curses but dude is cursed. Sell if he has some value.

Quincey: Gets paid too much for what he does as an okay middle pairing dude who is probably now a bottom pairing dude since Green/DDK is the middle pairing for the time being. Doesn't do much that a kid can't do for less and with more speed and more potential to grow into. Especially with the cap likely not to go up thanks to the Canadian dollar, we need to be saving some money.

One of Smith/Kindl. They fill sort of the same role in different ways. A bottom pairing d-man with flashes of brilliance. If I had to choose I probably dump Smith just because he seems to be more inclined to be a 4th forward than a d-man. Kindl generates his offense on the back end more like a traditional defensemen which I think we need. Plus I'm sorta banking on a coaching change being just what he needed. Either way they've both had a lot of time in the league now and just haven't met the billing. One of them can easily go.

I don't know what kind of return these guys get. I hope it's decent. I also know none of this is likely to happen.

Great answer. They are loaded up front and really should make a move to optimize the team.

 

[RedMachine87]

I'm not sure what i'd do personally, but I know for a fact that we have way too many prospects/players that we know what do with, and trading some of them for something we can actually use makes enough sense that Holland wont actually do it

I fear that also to be the case. Depth is great, but at some point it starts to become counterproductive - as we're starting to see right now with younger/better players becoming blocked by older/more expensive vets. I think it's always better to be proactive with asset management in order to maintain the upper hand in negotiations and not risk losing players for nothing (ala Nestrasil). Organizational depth doesn't win championships, consolidated NHL talent does.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

I think the only viable trading partner for the Wings at this point is the Carolina Hurricanes. They have a slew of young defensive prospects both currently on their team (Faulk, Murphy) as well as in the pipeline (Hannifan, Fluery, Carrick, Slavin, Pesce), but are painfully weak in star power and prospect depth up front, specifically at wing.

Obviously, the blue chips of Hannifan and Fluery will be the cornerstones of their defense for years to come if they reach their potential and would most likely come at the steepest price.

The player that I constantly want on the Wings, is Justin Faulk, who I believe is a very solid Top Pairing Right Handed D and is under a very competitive cap hit of $4.8M for the next several years. This is a kid who is criminally underrated as being the backbone of Carolina's defense, who has seen his point production increase year over year (topping at 49 points this last season) and is entering his prime for the next 6 seasons or so (currently 27 years old).

The Wings have a glut of young wingers and prospects that could certainly improve Carolina's Top 6, and since they are in full rebuild and looking for youth, draft picks would probably look particularly desirable for them.

I suspect if they could flip Faulk for a Top 6, young Forward or Blue Chip forward prospect, another quality prospect, and a draft pick - I'm guessing that they would bite on something like that.

Assuming Pulks proves himself to be a legitimate scoring winger at the NHL, that would give us Tatar, Nyquist, and Pulks as quality young 25+ goal scoring wingers. One of those, alongside a Bertuzzi or Holmstrom prospect, and a draft pick could land us Faulk who would immediately be a Top Pairing, RHD to go with Dekeyser as what would be the future of our D corp and use the next three years to try to continue to develop and acquire more defensive prospects.

 

[RedMachine87]

Andersson, Ferraro, Ouellet, Nyquist, Sproul, Helm, Quincey, Smith/Kindl. Trade em all, pick one of Smith/Kindl.

Ouellet: I really like what I see from Jensen and he looked good last preseason too. Plus he's a righty. I keep Marchy over XO for probably bad reasons. A righty, a Russian, and he has just shown me a few times a level of offensive thinking that I haven't from XO. It has definitely gotten him into trouble with pinches and holding on to the puck too long, but I want to nurture it and make it grow.

Nyquist: I think Tats generates more offense on his own. I think Pulks is a gamble but has a higher ceiling. I don't think he busts, just may not reach the heights of his potential. I'd rather take the gamble of an elite shooter with a shoot first, shoot always mentality who also has some speed.

Sproul: he's running out of options and he just hasn't been impressive whether in GR or in camps or preseason. Might be his value is too low and we should just hold onto him though.

Helm: just too injury prone. Whether it's training or just plain old bad luck, he just can't seem to stay healthy. I don't believe in curses but dude is cursed. Sell if he has some value.

Quincey: Gets paid too much for what he does as an okay middle pairing dude who is probably now a bottom pairing dude since Green/DDK is the middle pairing for the time being. Doesn't do much that a kid can't do for less and with more speed and more potential to grow into. Especially with the cap likely not to go up thanks to the Canadian dollar, we need to be saving some money.

One of Smith/Kindl. They fill sort of the same role in different ways. A bottom pairing d-man with flashes of brilliance. If I had to choose I probably dump Smith just because he seems to be more inclined to be a 4th forward than a d-man. Kindl generates his offense on the back end more like a traditional defensemen which I think we need. Plus I'm sorta banking on a coaching change being just what he needed. Either way they've both had a lot of time in the league now and just haven't met the billing. One of them can easily go.

I don't know what kind of return these guys get. I hope it's decent. I also know none of this is likely to happen.

I agree with most of this. A lot of people get emotionally attached to players the wings draft and develop, but you have to give to get and you need to make forward looking moves to manage the cap and maximize your NHL talent. Trading Nyquist may not be a popular proposition, but it's a smart business move IMO.

 

[sean3250]

I think the only viable trading partner for the Wings at this point is the Carolina Hurricanes. They have a slew of young defensive prospects both currently on their team (Faulk, Murphy) as well as in the pipeline (Hannifan, Fluery, Carrick, Slavin, Pesce), but are painfully weak in star power and prospect depth up front, specifically at wing.

Obviously, the blue chips of Hannifan and Fluery will be the cornerstones of their defense for years to come if they reach their potential and would most likely come at the steepest price.

The player that I constantly want on the Wings, is Justin Faulk, who I believe is a very solid Top Pairing Right Handed D and is under a very competitive cap hit of $4.8M for the next several years. This is a kid who is criminally underrated as being the backbone of Carolina's defense, who has seen his point production increase year over year (topping at 49 points this last season) and is entering his prime for the next 6 seasons or so (currently 27 years old).

The Wings have a glut of young wingers and prospects that could certainly improve Carolina's Top 6, and since they are in full rebuild and looking for youth, draft picks would probably look particularly desirable for them.

I suspect if they could flip Faulk for a Top 6, young Forward or Blue Chip forward prospect, another quality prospect, and a draft pick - I'm guessing that they would bite on something like that.

Assuming Pulks proves himself to be a legitimate scoring winger at the NHL, that would give us Tatar, Nyquist, and Pulks as quality young 25+ goal scoring wingers. One of those, alongside a Bertuzzi or Holmstrom prospect, and a draft pick could land us Faulk who would immediately be a Top Pairing, RHD to go with Dekeyser as what would be the future of our D corp and use the next three years to try to continue to develop and acquire more defensive prospects.

I highly doubt Faulk is getting moved for anything less than Larkin plus. It's possible he could one day be available if Carolina's players developed as planned but they are going to want someone very good in return.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

I highly doubt Faulk is getting moved for anything less than Larkin plus. It's possible he could one day be available if Carolina's players developed as planned but they are going to want someone very good in return.

I wouldn't be so certain of that - granted, I'm sure they would ask for that but I think they would settle for less. Their depth at wing is absolutely abysmal. And they have a young budding center in Lindholm, and still have Rask at least as a player with upside. And I think they are still interested in keeping the Staals as they seemed hesitant to move either at this point when I'm sure they got competitive offers for them.

What they don't have in any form whatsoever, are scoring wingers. Their top scoring wingers from last season:

Skinner 31pts
Gerbe 28pts
Nash (who at times played wing) 25pts

That's it - and their prospects at those positions is not any better. They need goal scorers, extremely badly. And offering them a player like Nyquist - give them at player who would have led their team in points and goals the last two seasons and is only 26, a prospect like Bertuzzi who is shaping into a potential 40+ point winger with an aggressive style, and a number 1 pick - I think it would be tempting for them to pass up especially with how many top flight defensive players they have.

 

[Vladdy84]

Dump Joker. Trade Kindl, Quincey/Big E and maybe XO.

 

[Frk It]

I highly doubt Faulk is getting moved for anything less than Larkin plus. It's possible he could one day be available if Carolina's players developed as planned but they are going to want someone very good in return.

Yeah, well people said Dougie Hamilton wouldn't go for anything less than Larkin plus too... but then he did.

 

[Flowah]

I think the only viable trading partner for the Wings at this point is the Carolina Hurricanes. They have a slew of young defensive prospects both currently on their team (Faulk, Murphy) as well as in the pipeline (Hannifan, Fluery, Carrick, Slavin, Pesce), but are painfully weak in star power and prospect depth up front, specifically at wing.

Obviously, the blue chips of Hannifan and Fluery will be the cornerstones of their defense for years to come if they reach their potential and would most likely come at the steepest price.

The player that I constantly want on the Wings, is Justin Faulk, who I believe is a very solid Top Pairing Right Handed D and is under a very competitive cap hit of $4.8M for the next several years. This is a kid who is criminally underrated as being the backbone of Carolina's defense, who has seen his point production increase year over year (topping at 49 points this last season) and is entering his prime for the next 6 seasons or so (currently 27 years old).

The Wings have a glut of young wingers and prospects that could certainly improve Carolina's Top 6, and since they are in full rebuild and looking for youth, draft picks would probably look particularly desirable for them.

I suspect if they could flip Faulk for a Top 6, young Forward or Blue Chip forward prospect, another quality prospect, and a draft pick - I'm guessing that they would bite on something like that.

Assuming Pulks proves himself to be a legitimate scoring winger at the NHL, that would give us Tatar, Nyquist, and Pulks as quality young 25+ goal scoring wingers. One of those, alongside a Bertuzzi or Holmstrom prospect, and a draft pick could land us Faulk who would immediately be a Top Pairing, RHD to go with Dekeyser as what would be the future of our D corp and use the next three years to try to continue to develop and acquire more defensive prospects.

Does any combo of Nyquist, Helm, Smith/Kindl, Quincey, XO/AM come close to Faulk?

 

[Frk It]

Integral: Zetterberg, Datsyuk, Nyquist, Tatar, Larkin, Kronwall, Dekeyser, Green

Immediate Trade Block: Helm, Quincey, Pulkkinen, Howard, 1st round pick (<<<but ONLY for defenseman)

How would you go about phasing in the prospects who are pushing to make the big club?

16-17 Roster

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Abdelkader
Tatar-Sheahan-Nyquist
Jurco-Larkin-Mantha
Bertuzzi-Glendening-Ferraro
Extras: Andersson, Callahan

Kronwall-E/Smith (<<<ideally trade acquisition)
Dekeyser-Green
Ouellet-Jensen
Extra: Marchenko

-Mrazek
-Vet UFA Backup

Casualties: Helm, Sproul, Miller, Quincey, Howard

17-18 Roster

Zetterberg-Larkin-Mantha
Tatar-Sheahan-Nyquist
Bertuzzi-Athanasiou/Homer-Jurco
Nastasiuk-Glendening-Ferraro
Extras: Nosek, Callahan

Kronwall-UFA or Trade
Dekeyser-Green
Ouellet-Jensen
Extra: Marchenko

-Mrazek
-Paterson/Vet UFA Backup

Casualties: Abdelkader, Ericsson (hopefully)

Does any combo of Nyquist, Helm, Smith/Kindl, Quincey, XO/AM come close to Faulk?

Doubtful. A 1st rounder would need to be included in there somewhere. But I wouldn't trade Nyquist or Tatar at this point, personally.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Does any combo of Nyquist, Helm, Smith/Kindl, Quincey, XO/AM come close to Faulk?

The plan should be to trade guys we dont need.for picks and.use some depth to acquire a dman like big buff(ie a ufa)

Smith plus jurco us a.fourth for big buff

Kindl for a 6th

Helm for a 2nd

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Does any combo of Nyquist, Helm, Smith/Kindl, Quincey, XO/AM come close to Faulk?

No, not close. Think of the players that you want to keep. Those are the players we would need to part with.

 

[opivy]

That was specific to the time of year though. You don't get Dougie Hamilton that cheaply early on.

 

[Frk It]

How would you go about phasing in the prospects who are pushing to make the big club?

In case anyone wants to try and think about doing this, I am going to copy and paste when our prospects lose their waiver exemption from the thread that Henkka started that we both have updated.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Losing waiver exemption after the 15-16 season
-Frk
-Coreau
-Jensen
-Marchenko
-Mrazek
-Nedomlel
-Ouellet
-Sproul
-Tvrdon

Losing waiver exemption after 16-17 season
-Athanasiou
-Mantha
-Nosek

Losing waiver exemption after 17-18 season
-Bertuzzi
-Nastasiuk
-Paterson

Losing waiver exemption after 18-19 season
-Hicketts
-Holmstrom
-Larkin
-Turgeon

Losing waiver exemption after 19-20 season
-Saarijarvi
-Svechnikov?

That was specific to the time of year though. You don't get Dougie Hamilton that cheaply early on.

My point was that 9 times out of 10 it seems like folks overestimate what players trade values are.

Or that "young stud defenseman don't get traded".

And then we see these things happen that contradict it.

 

[sean3250]

Yeah, well people said Dougie Hamilton wouldn't go for anything less than Larkin plus too... but then he did.

You think Faulk goes for less than that? 23 year old defender coming off of a 50 point season. He can actually play defense too. RH to boot. Francis would be considered a fool if he traded Faulk to Detroit and Larkin was not one of the pieces going back.

Hamilton is a different situation, and Faulk is way better than Hamilton anyway. Hamilton has struggled at times defensively when he was playing #1 minutes. Faulk is a legit #1 at 23, playing 25 minutes a night.

 

[needzmoarcleary]

As much as I don't want to part with one of Nyquist/Tatar...I guess at this point I'd be more open to trading goose. I like both players but would rather keep Tatar over him. If we could package Nyquist in a trade for a legit D man I'd pull the trigger more than likely. Just wonder what the package would have to include on top of him.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Expendable: Everyone

If the return is great enough, no one should be untouchable. The better question to ask is what do we really need. I think the answer is a defensemen who is better than Big Rig and DD who can effectively play with Kronwall (and his successor) on the top pair. He doesn't need to be a big offensive guy, but he does need to be effective against tough matchups. Figure out what that costs and work backwards.

People don't want to hear this, but very few of our prospects, standing alone, have any trade value.

 

[Frk It]

You think Faulk goes for less than that? 23 year old defender coming off of a 50 point season. He can actually play defense too. RH to boot. Francis would be considered a fool if he traded Faulk to Detroit and Larkin was not one of the pieces going back.

Hamilton is a different situation, and Faulk is way better than Hamilton anyway. Hamilton has struggled at times defensively when he was playing #1 minutes. Faulk is a legit #1 at 23, playing 25 minutes a night.

Do I think he would go for less than that? No. Did I think Hamilton would went for what he did? Hell no. So I don't know. People usually estimate on the high side, it seems.

I wouldn't target Faulk, that's way too ambitious. I would target someone like Byfuglien.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Dump Joker. Trade Kindl, Quincey/Big E and maybe XO.

Once Datsyuk gets back I could see Joker going on waivers, Would love to trade Kindl but seriously doubt any one wants him. Quincey could possibly be moved for a 3rd pick some team needing defensive help could take a flyer on him. Ericsson pretty much the same as Kindl. Way overpaid for his production. I see Ouelett and Sproul being the odd ones out leaving both Marchenko and jensen as the likely ones to make the team possibly this year or next. I wouldn't be surprised if Holland doesn't leave Ericsson unprotected when the expansion draft starts in the 2017/18 season same could be same said about Howard if he's not traded next summer. Could be a way to shed some high expensive contracts.

 

[sean3250]

Do I think he would go for less than that? No. Did I think Hamilton would went for what he did? Hell no. So I don't know. People usually estimate on the high side, it seems.

I wouldn't target Faulk, that's way too ambitious. I would target someone like Byfuglien.

Detroit would definitely have a dirty top 4 if they traded for Big Buff.

Kronwall-Buff
Dekeyser-Green

If Holland pulled off something like that it would convince me that he wants to try and get one last Cup with D and Z. Detroit would definitely have a shot.

 

[Shaman464]

I think the biggest thing that the OP should realize is Pulkk is currently at his lowest trade value. He is without wavier exemption, he's got a lot of talent, but there are still questions if it can translate to the NHL. He is also at some of his highest potential value for the Wings. He has a very low cost contract and has a lot of talent. This, coupled with a few **** contracts for older/expendable players, allows the Wings to have a deeper team without having cap problems.

 

[RedMachine87]

Expendable: Everyone

If the return is great enough, no one should be untouchable. The better question to ask is what do we really need. I think the answer is a defensemen who is better than Big Rig and DD who can effectively play with Kronwall (and his successor) on the top pair. He doesn't need to be a big offensive guy, but he does need to be effective against tough matchups. Figure out what that costs and work backwards.

People don't want to hear this, but very few of our prospects, standing alone, have any trade value.

By expendable I meant more like "who would I actively shop?" You need to have a core to build around after all, unless you're in a position where you should just blow it up. Which we are not. I, of course, agree that no one is untouchable given a good return.

And, yeah, that's exactly what we need. Barring the unlikely event of getting a legitimate #1 via trade.

I would, however, disagree with our prospects not having any trade value. I think the wings drafting/developing is highly regarded around the league and that our top prospects, especially those w/ AHL success, would be considered nice pieces in a trade. Solid NHLers get traded all the time for picks/prospects...true many other teams have higher picks and/or (arguably) more innately talented prospects...but I'd wager our top prospects have had as much or more success in their respective leagues as other team's players.