Armchair GMs: What moves would you make to maximize the roster?

[Sadekuuro]

It's the 'Armchair GM' thread. Capsize?

I sense autocorrect at work

Kronwall was the only guy they drafted the past decade that is top 2 legit. He's getting old.

Past decade? Kronwall was drafted over 15 years ago.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Calgary looks to have some very good D-men and their goaltending problems seem to be nearing the critical level; seems no one can stop a puck for that team. Our goalie tandem has been one of the few bright parts of this young season but seems like an ideal trading partner.

 

[Dotter]

I sense autocorrect at work



Past decade? Kronwall was drafted over 15 years ago.

You're right. He made his nhl debut in 2004 which is what I was probably thinking of.

 

[GoAwayDanCleary]

Calgary looks to have some very good D-men and their goaltending problems seem to be nearing the critical level; seems no one can stop a puck for that team. Our goalie tandem has been one of the few bright parts of this young season but seems like an ideal trading partner.

Interesting.

Besides Larkin, Mrazek is the last guy I'd want to see traded. Dude is going to be one of the best goalies in the league. I would honestly say he's going to be there very very soon. He's ****ing amazing.

 

[Dotter]

Ducks fan don't want Larkin for Fowler straight across

 

[Pavels Dog]

Those types of guys also won't return much.

Not by themseves or right now. It would either be a larger package or 1-2 years from now when Svech/Holmstrom/anyone has increased their value. I just feel like that's the luxury a player like Larkin affords you, making other assets expendable. Ducks don't move Fowler/Lindholm, they will move Vatanen/Theodore. Identify your core players (Larkin, Mrazek), move others. Moving a part of the future core for another part is a lateral move at best, and at worst a downgrade since I doubt Larkin gives us a 19 year old stud d-man to build around for 20 years.

Ducks fan don't want Larkin for Fowler straight across

That shouldn't be a surprise. Ducks aren't desperate for a guy like Larkin (they have more need for someone like Nyquist/Tatar in the short term) and you don't move a guy like Fowler unless you want to shake up your core or he demands a trade.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Calgary looks to have some very good D-men and their goaltending problems seem to be nearing the critical level; seems no one can stop a puck for that team. Our goalie tandem has been one of the few bright parts of this young season but seems like an ideal trading partner.

This team is built to have goaltending as a strength. To trot out two #1 goalies for all 82 games. Mrazek hasn't played the kind of substantial workload many of you would burden him with since he was an Ottawa 67 and even then it isn't what is being proposed continuously.

Time to trade one of the two will eventually come, but it isn't this season. It also isn't for the likes of Wideman. Brodie, Gio and Hamilton are not available and they are the only substantial trade targets that would truly please the masses. Wideman can be done without attaching one of our goalies.

Also key to this is you have to look at what your callup option is should you jettison Howard as I assume that is the goalie everyone prefers to move. Coreau and McCollum (in particular) have not looked good at all. They would amount to automatic losses when trotted out at the NHL level with where their games are at currently. We could look to the waiver wire, but instantly we would be sacrificing games. I don't like the D, but answers right now have to come from outside of sacrificing our goaltending duo who along with Zetterberg are carrying this team.

It will come from sacrificing wingers and prospects. That is the answer on D and right now the options are severely limiting. We need to weather the injury storm and hope that the system takes hold. This mythical move is tough to make because right now the phones are not on fire and what we have isn't the desperation moves the teams that are shopping are making.

Calgary and Anaheim could make for interesting bedfellows though in terms of NHL for NHL talent with a goaltending answer for them, but not sure how they massage the cap.

The Wings are stuck in an evaluation period, attempting to come up with answers. That blockbuster isn't there to be had right now, but I could see that changing as Christmas draws near. I don't think the goalie tandem is going anywhere in season though.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Ducks fan don't want Larkin for Fowler straight across

It makes sense when you have Getzlaf locked up until 20-21 and Kesler locked up until 21-22 that it doesn't move the needle for their fan-base.

We wouldn't offer it anyway.... Fowler would be a huge get for the Wings something they should offer up a lot for, but that would be an incredibly substantial package. One of Nyquist/Tatar would have to be involved and you're building out from there and not with anything small or easy to swallow on the couple of assets that follow.

 

[Pavels Dog]

It makes sense when you have Getzlaf locked up until 20-21 and Kesler locked up until 21-22 that it doesn't move the needle for their fan-base.

We wouldn't offer it anyway.... Fowler would be a huge get for the Wings something they should offer up a lot for, but that would be an incredibly substantial package. One of Nyquist/Tatar would have to be involved and you're building out from there and not with anything small or easy to swallow on the couple of assets that follow.

Thinking about it some more, I feel something like Nyquist/Tatar+Dekeyser would be a 'fair' deal for Fowler/Lindholm. Maybe not according to Ducks fans (who almost certainly would want Larkin included), but in reality it would be pretty reasonable imo. But I maintain that I don't see Anaheim moving either of those two guys. Vatanen/Theodore could definitely be shopped around though if they continue to struggle, and I think Holland should be the first one to call and kick those tires.

I'm also interested in that Zaitsev guy in the KHL, but as of right now Detroit has not been mentioned as an interested team. Holland really needs to explore all avenues that could help our D.

 

[Dotter]

It makes sense when you have Getzlaf locked up until 20-21 and Kesler locked up until 21-22 that it doesn't move the needle for their fan-base.

We wouldn't offer it anyway.... Fowler would be a huge get for the Wings something they should offer up a lot for, but that would be an incredibly substantial package. One of Nyquist/Tatar would have to be involved and you're building out from there and not with anything small or easy to swallow on the couple of assets that follow.

Playing devil's advocate, Larkin is a natural centerman but has proven he can play the wing just as well. Having a winger that can step up to his natural position

when inevitable injuries occur to one of Kesler or Getzlaf is a good problem to have.

I don't want to trade Larkin, but I am having a hard believing Nyquist, Tatar and Dekeyser all packaged up could get the young elite dman Wings seek.​

 

[Pavels Dog]

I don't want to trade Larkin, but I am having a hard believing Nyquist, Tatar and Dekeyser all packaged up could get the young elite dman Wings seek.

For what it's worth:

Tatar+Dekeyser

for

Cam Fowler

or

Tatar

for

Sami Vatanen

I'd do either one of these. But I really doubt Detroit would.

 

[BinCookin]

Those types of guys also won't return much.

You guys both make completely valid points.

The trouble really is this:

I do not think Nashville is very interested in trading Jones.
I think it is clear we need to be drafting more D men, or actively scouting other teams "Prospect" D-men, and trading more established guys for their prospect D. While they still have lower trade value. Only trouble is again you would be gambling on our scouts ability to select D men, which has not been turning out so great as of late.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Trading DeKeyser to get Fowler would be dumb. Not exactly a lateral move because Fowler is better than him, but it would still defeat the purpose.

We need to add to DeKeyser, not trade him for a slight upgrade while the rest of the D still sucks.

 

[Retire91]

You guys both make completely valid points.

The trouble really is this:

I do not think Nashville is very interested in trading Jones.
I think it is clear we need to be drafting more D men, or actively scouting other teams "Prospect" D-men, and trading more established guys for their prospect D. While they still have lower trade value. Only trouble is again you would be gambling on our scouts ability to select D men, which has not been turning out so great as of late.

Keep in mind that any promising 18 year old defenseman that is NHL ready isn't going to make it outside of the top 15 or even the top 10 for that matter. Unless the redwings miss the playoffs in a serious way or win the lottery anyone the redwings draft is probably not hitting NHL ice until after D and Z retire. The only way to get an impact defenseman within the remainder of their career is through trade.

Cam Fowler was drafted 12th and the hockey world was in shock he fell that far. Jones I think was 4th. Hedmann, Adam Larson, Ryan Murray these guys all go quick way way before a playoff team drafts.

Trading DeKeyser to get Fowler would be dumb. Not exactly a lateral move because Fowler is better than him, but it would still defeat the purpose.

We need to add to DeKeyser, not trade him for a slight upgrade while the rest of the D still sucks.

Agreed including DeKeyser in any deal is borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. It leaves the wings with the same problem on the backend and less solution on the front end. Factoring in Kronwall's age DeKeyser is the wing's most important D on the roster.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Agreed including DeKeyser in any deal is borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. It leaves the wings with the same problem on the backend and less solution on the front end. Factoring in Kronwall's age DeKeyser is the wing's most important D on the roster.

I am not 100% sure this analogy fits

fowler is a better NHL dman than dekeyser today and arguably will be so for the rest of their respective careers

fowler is a top pairing nhl dman, is dekeyser, will dekeyser ever be?

a top pairing nhl dman is a guy who can(could) log 23-26 mins a game and consistently put up 40-55pts a season and play in all situations and in all moments of the game

the hole fowler would fill is much harder to fill then that left by moving dekeyser, its like trading a 2nd line centremen for a first line centremen(you do that move every day of the week)

 

[HisNoodliness]

I am not 100% sure this analogy fits

fowler is a better NHL dman than dekeyser today and arguably will be so for the rest of their respective careers

fowler is a top pairing nhl dman, is dekeyser, will dekeyser ever be?

a top pairing nhl dman is a guy who can(could) log 23-26 mins a game and consistently put up 40-55pts a season and play in all situations and in all moments of the game

the hole fowler would fill is much harder to fill then that left by moving dekeyser, its like trading a 2nd line centremen for a first line centremen(you do that move every day of the week)

But we're moving other pieces along with DK. Obviously a straight up trade is a no brainer, but that's not what we're discussing.

We have too much forward depth, and too many 3rd line defenseman. Would Fowler make the D better? Yes. But the team will stay more or less the same due to losing Dk and Tatar and we've lost a piece to upgrade the D.

Tatar for Vatanen on the other hand upgrades the D( include picks if necessary but I don't think that's necessary). For a piece we can sacrifice. We just can't afford to lose DK.

(At the worst Dk-Vatanen is a very good 2nd pairing that will last for years to come, at best one develops into a first line D). Imagine:
Kronwall-Green
DK-Vatanen
Ericsson-Quincey

I like that much more than:
Kronwall-Fowler
Ericsson-Green
Quincey-Smith/Kindl/whoever
Because the 2nd line is going to be awful.

 

[Retire91]

I am not 100% sure this analogy fits

fowler is a better NHL dman than dekeyser today and arguably will be so for the rest of their respective careers

fowler is a top pairing nhl dman, is dekeyser, will dekeyser ever be?

a top pairing nhl dman is a guy who can(could) log 23-26 mins a game and consistently put up 40-55pts a season and play in all situations and in all moments of the game

the hole fowler would fill is much harder to fill then that left by moving dekeyser, its like trading a 2nd line centremen for a first line centremen(you do that move every day of the week)

I don't know you are loosing the number 2 D +. To bring in the number 1 D. I am not arguing that Fowler doesn't fill an important hole but loosing Danny D + to fill that hole is mostly a lateral move for the team as a whole. Secondary D and wingers might be easier to find but it still leaves the problem of having to find them. If its just forwards prospects and Danny D stays to me that is a world of difference based on where the roster is at.

 

[Frk It]

Dekeyser + for Fowler is not an ideal move (esp if it's DK + Tats), but it sure as hell ain't lateral for our back end.

 

[DanZ]

Dekeyser + for Fowler is not an ideal move (esp if it's DK + Tats), but it sure as hell ain't lateral for our back end.

No but I believe the gains are marginal. You are also taking a risk by removing a player that fits well and has performed well with the team and replacing him a with a player that potentially would not. Fowler could end up working out great but there is still a risk there. There's better ways to address the defense in my opinion.

 

[Frk It]

No but I believe the gains are marginal. You are also taking a risk by removing a player that fits well and has performed well with the team and replacing him a with a player that potentially would not. Fowler could end up working out great but there is still a risk there. There's better ways to address the defense in my opinion.

I don't disagree. The ceiling for Fowler is way better, and he could actually supplant Kronwall imo, but I don't love that price tag. We need to add talent on our back end without removing any.

I'm wondering if there is some potential for a Pulkkinen + for Wideman swap? I could get on board with something like that. Would love to know what guys could actually be had.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Trading DeKeyser to get Fowler would be dumb. Not exactly a lateral move because Fowler is better than him, but it would still defeat the purpose.

We need to add to DeKeyser, not trade him for a slight upgrade while the rest of the D still sucks.

Agreed including DeKeyser in any deal is borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. It leaves the wings with the same problem on the backend and less solution on the front end. Factoring in Kronwall's age DeKeyser is the wing's most important D on the roster.

Well, the way I see it there's almost a 0% chance the Ducks trade Fowler. And if they did, it certainly wouldn't be for scraps, picks or prospects. They want to win now. Tatar would fill a big hole in their top 6, and Dekeyser could step right in on their top 4 and take over some of Fowler's responsiblity until Vatanen/Theodore are ready to be top-pairing guys.

From our perspective it obviously wouldn't solve our problems on D, but it would definitely help us out a lot. We have too many D-men that are 2nd/3rd pairing caliber, but only Kronwall who is a true top-pairing guy and he is declining.

Add Fowler and you have a legit top-pairing D that can play big minutes. You can bump Ericsson or even Kronwall down to the 2nd pairing and suddenly our top 4 looks a lot better. It would afford us time to develop our own prospects and build our depth behind Fowler.

Fowler-Green
Kronwall-Ericsson
Quincey-Marchenko

wouldn't that be something?

Realistically we should target Vatanen/Theodore though.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

But we're moving other pieces along with DK. Obviously a straight up trade is a no brainer, but that's not what we're discussing.

We have too much forward depth, and too many 3rd line defenseman. Would Fowler make the D better? Yes. But the team will stay more or less the same due to losing Dk and Tatar and we've lost a piece to upgrade the D.

Tatar for Vatanen on the other hand upgrades the D( include picks if necessary but I don't think that's necessary). For a piece we can sacrifice. We just can't afford to lose DK.

(At the worst Dk-Vatanen is a very good 2nd pairing that will last for years to come, at best one develops into a first line D). Imagine:
Kronwall-Green
DK-Vatanen
Ericsson-Quincey

I like that much more than:
Kronwall-Fowler
Ericsson-Green
Quincey-Smith/Kindl/whoever
Because the 2nd line is going to be awful.

I am gonna not come across looking good saying this but we will never ever win a cup because of guys like tatar or pulkinnen or jurco, they're not integral elements to success in the NHL

i would gladly package dekeyser and tatar for a true stud blueliner that will be in that role in detroit for the next decade or more because that role is essential to success

is fowler that guy? that perhaps is the only question that needs be asked

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

I don't know you are loosing the number 2 D +. To bring in the number 1 D. I am not arguing that Fowler doesn't fill an important hole but loosing Danny D + to fill that hole is mostly a lateral move for the team as a whole. Secondary D and wingers might be easier to find but it still leaves the problem of having to find them. If its just forwards prospects and Danny D stays to me that is a world of difference based on where the roster is at.

i guess to me those wingers and depth dman are a dime a dozen and are nothing more than complimentary pieces that are of course needed to succeed but that are also easily found once your core is well established

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

i guess to me those wingers and depth dman are a dime a dozen and are nothing more than complimentary pieces that are of course needed to succeed but that are also easily found once your core is well established

With how bad our collective defense is, losing Dekeyser right now would not be advisable.

 

[Frk It]

I am gonna not come across looking good saying this but we will never ever win a cup because of guys like tatar or pulkinnen or jurco, they're not integral elements to success in the NHL

i would gladly package dekeyser and tatar for a true stud blueliner that will be in that role in detroit for the next decade or more because that role is essential to success

is fowler that guy? that perhaps is the only question that needs be asked

Tatar really doesn't belong with those other 2 right now, and he could absolutely be a difference maker in a playoff series, even if he hasn't been just yet.