Speculation: Armchair GM Thread VIII - We've Tried Nothing! And we have all kinds of ideas!

[Fig]

Our LHD is already not very good if either one of Hanifin or Kylington goes down, if Hanifin goes anywhere it's to upgrade on LHD.

Fair, I'm just saying that I assume I'd see trade talks shake out that way. The Blues need a LHD, so I'd assume they'd inquire into something like that as well.

Maybe you make moves like that and then make more moves for Chychrun.

 

[Tofveve]

Tkachuk has been amazing for us the majority of the season up until the last small handful of games where he's been off by his standards. He's not worth Gaudreau money but worth that next tier 7-8ish/yr. I'd keep him over Mangey. Kylingtons contract won't likely be as big as I might have thought 30 games ago.

 

[Tofveve]

Looch hasn't been that bad for us this year at all. It is his salary that sticks in everyone's craw.

So if he plays next year I'll be grinding my teeth like everyone else during a lot of games and cheering like crazy when he makes a big hit, scores, or fights.

I agree.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Sutter just said that Hanifin and Andersson were the best young pair in the league.

We aren’t trading Hanifin. The peanut gallery has wanted this guy gone for years despite the fact he’s been playing like a high end #2 D for over 2 seasons now. Our defensive depth is bad after Mackey there is maybe 1-2 guys who could be NHLers and those are bottom pair guys at this point

Also most D have their primes from 24-34. Hanifin just entered that…

 

[super6646]

Sutter just said that Hanifin and Andersson were the best young pair in the league.

We aren’t trading Hanifin. The peanut gallery has wanted this guy gone for years despite the fact he’s been playing like a high end #2 D for over 2 seasons now. Our defensive depth is bad after Mackey there is maybe 1-2 guys who could be NHLers and those are bottom pair guys at this point

Also most D have their primes from 24-34. Hanifin just entered that…

They have been good this year. I've like Andersson's progression in particular after his disastrous play last season. I do think some of the offensive production is fools gold, but having 2 40+pt dmen is still pretty solid overall.

 

[Nanuuk]

Sutter just said that Hanifin and Andersson were the best young pair in the league.

We aren’t trading Hanifin. The peanut gallery has wanted this guy gone for years despite the fact he’s been playing like a high end #2 D for over 2 seasons now. Our defensive depth is bad after Mackey there is maybe 1-2 guys who could be NHLers and those are bottom pair guys at this point

Also most D have their primes from 24-34. Hanifin just entered that…

Which is why I think the Flames may try to re-sign Zadorov who will only turn 27 on April 16 and that's only two years older than Hanifin and Andersson.

Big, tough, smooth skating D-men are hard to come by. And one of the reasons the Flames have enjoyed so much success this year is because we have the likes of Lucic, Ritchie, Zadorov, and Gudbranson on the team. We're tough to play against.

Fast forward to next year if Lucic is gone (as many fans appear to want) and Ritchie is gone (again the chorus is to lose him) and Zadorov walks into UFA. Assuming we can re-sign Guddy, all of a sudden we're not quite as scary as we are this year.

No offense to Valimaki or Mackey, but our D would take a big hit by not being as tough.

 

[super6646]

Which is why I think the Flames may try to re-sign Zadorov who will only turn 27 on April 16 and that's only two years older than Hanifin and Andersson.

Big, tough, smooth skating D-men are hard to come by. And one of the reasons the Flames have enjoyed so much success this year is because we have the likes of Lucic, Ritchie, Zadorov, and Gudbranson on the team. We're tough to play against.

Fast forward to next year if Lucic is gone (as many fans appear to want) and Ritchie is gone (again the chorus is to lose him) and Zadorov walks into UFA. Assuming we can re-sign Guddy, all of a sudden we're not quite as scary as we are this year.

No offense to Valimaki or Mackey, but our D would take a big hit by not being as tough.

No cap-space. Gaudreau and Tkachuk are playing themselves into 10m+ category level contracts, and Mangiapane will be around 6m give or take. Zadorov is going to want 4-5m long term, and that's just too much for 3rd pairing dmen when you already have so much many tied up into depth players.

 

[TheHudlinator]

Oh he is effective alright. And a leader in the room. It is not his fault that he signed a big contract in good faith and is now seeing his skill on the wane.

I'm sorry but if he is not effective the vast majority of games.

 

[Tofveve]

Sutter just said that Hanifin and Andersson were the best young pair in the league.

We aren’t trading Hanifin. The peanut gallery has wanted this guy gone for years despite the fact he’s been playing like a high end #2 D for over 2 seasons now. Our defensive depth is bad after Mackey there is maybe 1-2 guys who could be NHLers and those are bottom pair guys at this point

Also most D have their primes from 24-34. Hanifin just entered that…

In fairness (as being a critic of Hanafin at times), he has played "skittish" IMO during most of his time here, including most of the first half of this season. In the last 20-30 games he's been better and more consistent.

So going back to my criticisms, he has reminded a lot of TJ Brodie and my criticisms of him. Where Giordano was steady as a rock - you could put him on in OT (or anytime) and he could even cycle down low in the offensive end and you'd be confident that 98/100 times he wouldn't give up possession or not be able to get back in time if he did - Hanafin was unconfident with the puck (he'd look great until he didn't and then it was bad and/or in our net). Maybe not quite as bad as Brodie circa 2018/19 when TJ was coughing up the puck continually and making bad passes at an alarming clip, but there was quite a bit of that nonetheless. He has the skating and seems to have the puck handling that knock on wood it may have been a confidence thing. Rasmus to me seems to be that steady D and is rounding back to that Gioesque form. I'm okay with Hanafin being fitted into the top pairing as like I say IMO he's been quite a bit better the last 20-30 games. I'm going to be watching him more closely again with that praise coming from Sutter. Heck I'd like Noah to be that guy. He sure had a great game last game.

 

[Ace Rimmer]

In fairness (as being a critic of Hanafin at times), he has played "skittish" IMO during most of his time here, including most of the first half of this season.

Keep in mind... Noah Hanifin is 4 months older than Olvier Kylington. Came from a system where he had free reign offensively to whatever puck pursuit systems Gulutzan/Ward had been using. I can forgive his skittishness. It's no coincidence that Andersson is also finding new confidence this season. These three kids are the defensive core of this team going forward.

Signing Zadorov... I'd like to, but he's going to want 3-3.5 on a multi-year deal, so there's just no room. Mackey fills his shoes next season; he's looked really solid these last couple of games.

Valimaki will get the Kylington treatment next season; won't play on the farm, but won't get a regular game in. I think he's in the same boat as early Kylington; needs moar awareness generally, and to be more smrt away from the puck.

 

[Tofveve]

Keep in mind... Noah Hanifin is 4 months older than Olvier Kylington. Came from a system where he had free reign offensively to whatever puck pursuit systems Gulutzan/Ward had been using. I can forgive his skittishness. It's no coincidence that Andersson is also finding new confidence this season. These three kids are the defensive core of this team going forward.

Signing Zadorov... I'd like to, but he's going to want 3-3.5 on a multi-year deal, so there's just no room. Mackey fills his shoes next season; he's looked really solid these last couple of games.

Valimaki will get the Kylington treatment next season; won't play on the farm, but won't get a regular game in. I think he's in the same boat as early Kylington; needs moar awareness generally, and to be more smrt away from the puck.

One of the things affecting me some in how I have viewed Noah, was that I was REALLY starting to like Dougie Hamilton in his final year here. I thought he struggled with consistency (and shot selection, pinches etc) his first two seasons with us but by season 3 practically all of that had been erased and IMO was right there with Gio as one of our best Ds with a promising future. I found it so strange he was traded (there must have been baggage that I still don't know about in the room and maybe how he related to coaching etc), so held Hanafin to a pretty high standard (hindsight knowing there was more to the trade, Lindholm notwithstanding). Anyway, so yeah, having just gotten to a point where I liked what Hamilton seemed to have developed to and then feeling like Hanafin wasn't that has kept me nonplussed for most of his time here. I'm willing to be more positive about the guy going forward though.

*edit - went back and pulled up some Hamilton threads and it looks like how his brother was treated may have been part of the falling out. And then contracts. Still, at the time I was really disappointed at losing him. Hopefully Noah turns into the stud many think he is.

 

[DFF]

Mangiapane will be around 6m give or take.

I doubt a guy scoring 1 goal in the last 20 games is going to pull 6M

He is going to have to turn around fast to come close to that

He would be lucky to get Bennett number 4/4.5M

 

[TheHudlinator]

I doubt a guy scoring 1 goal in the last 20 games is going to pull 6M

He is going to have to turn around fast to come close to that

He would be lucky to get Bennett number 4/4.5M

4 million for a 30 goal scorer? Good luck

 

[super6646]

4 million for a 30 goal scorer? Good luck

I've seen fans say he is worth 4.25m because Tofolli got that. Coleman also got nearly 5m from this team too, and he's never sniffed close to 30 either. Hyman got 5.5m, same sort of thing. You can say that Mangiapane isn't a UFA, but he's also quite a bit better than both of them too.

I doubt a guy scoring 1 goal in the last 20 games is going to pull 6M

He is going to have to turn around fast to come close to that

He would be lucky to get Bennett number 4/4.5M

Yes he has been incredible cold... that doesn't change the fact he has 30 goals. Probably end up with about 55 pts give or take... that isn't a 4.5m dollar player.

 

[super6646]

In fairness (as being a critic of Hanafin at times), he has played "skittish" IMO during most of his time here, including most of the first half of this season. In the last 20-30 games he's been better and more consistent.

So going back to my criticisms, he has reminded a lot of TJ Brodie and my criticisms of him. Where Giordano was steady as a rock - you could put him on in OT (or anytime) and he could even cycle down low in the offensive end and you'd be confident that 98/100 times he wouldn't give up possession or not be able to get back in time if he did - Hanafin was unconfident with the puck (he'd look great until he didn't and then it was bad and/or in our net). Maybe not quite as bad as Brodie circa 2018/19 when TJ was coughing up the puck continually and making bad passes at an alarming clip, but there was quite a bit of that nonetheless. He has the skating and seems to have the puck handling that knock on wood it may have been a confidence thing. Rasmus to me seems to be that steady D and is rounding back to that Gioesque form. I'm okay with Hanafin being fitted into the top pairing as like I say IMO he's been quite a bit better the last 20-30 games. I'm going to be watching him more closely again with that praise coming from Sutter. Heck I'd like Noah to be that guy. He sure had a great game last game.

Getting our #1C alone makes it a major win for us. Hanifin is a nice cherry on top too.

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

1 goal in 20? That's a Monahan slump

 

[Some Other Flame]

I doubt a guy scoring 1 goal in the last 20 games is going to pull 6M

He is going to have to turn around fast to come close to that

He would be lucky to get Bennett number 4/4.5M

lol that's not how contract negotiations work

Treliving: Sure, your client scored 30+ over the course of the season but this cherry picked sample size suggests he actually sucks and should be paid a pittance

Mangiapane's agent: Uh huh, we're gonna go ahead and file for arbitration and leave as an UFA next year

 

[DFF]

4 million for a 30 goal scorer? Good luck

That’s how much Bennett is making and he is a center and brings tangible.

 

[DFF]

lol that's not how contract negotiations work

Treliving: Sure, your client scored 30+ over the course of the season but this cherry picked sample size suggests he actually sucks and should be paid a pittance

Mangiapane's agent: Uh huh, we're gonna go ahead and file for arbitration and leave as an UFA next year

Yes that’s how it works , if you don’t score in your last 30 games, it will cost you.

If he turns around then it’s a different story

He can file for arbitration, the Flames can trade him or live with the one year instead of paying for a guy that stopped performing. They have better options considering they have bigger fish to fry

Btw, 4.5M with term is not a pittance for a guy with a short record of high level performance

 

[Some Other Flame]

Yes that’s how it works , if you don’t score in your last 30 games, it will cost you.

If he turns around then it’s a different story

lol no. Goals at the beginning of the year count the same as goals at the end of the year. You might suffer from recency bias but Mangiapane and his agent certainly won't.

He can file for arbitration, the Flames can trade him or live with the one year instead of paying for a guy that stopped performing. They have better options considering they have bigger fish to fry

The Flames wondering where the goals went after trading away the bulk of their secondary scoring

 

[DFF]

I've seen fans say he is worth 4.25m because Tofolli got that. Coleman also got nearly 5m from this team too, and he's never sniffed close to 30 either. Hyman got 5.5m, same sort of thing. You can say that Mangiapane isn't a UFA, but he's also quite a bit better than both of them too.

UFA gets the extra 1M vs RFA….so by your own words Hyman-1M is fair for Mangi for similar perf

Coleman gets paid for the CUPS

 

[DFF]

lol no. Goals at the beginning of the year count the same as goals at the end of the year. You might suffer from recency bias but Mangiapane and his agent certainly won't.



The Flames wondering where the goals went after trading away the bulk of their secondary scoring

The season is still ahead of us….show it.
If he scores 1 goal in the next 20, it’s not worth paying him.

 

[super6646]

UFA gets the extra 1M vs RFA….so by your own words Hyman-1M is fair for Mangi for similar perf

Coleman gets paid for the CUPS

Never at all said that. And paying because of cups is silly. And if you want another comparable, Lindholm got 4.85x6 after coming off a 44 pt season and never scoring more then 17 goals. There are outliers, but Mangiapane is not a 4.5m dollar player whatsoever. He's going to ask for more, and I hope fans can understand that as reasonable.

lol no. Goals at the beginning of the year count the same as goals at the end of the year. You might suffer from recency bias but Mangiapane and his agent certainly won't.



The Flames wondering where the goals went after trading away the bulk of their secondary scoring

This. I remember when Lindholm had like 1 goal in the last month of the 2018-19 season. He's done alright for himself since...

 

[Some Other Flame]

The season is still ahead of us….show it.
If he scores 1 goal in the next 20, it’s not worth paying him.

Goal posts moved

 

[DFF]

Goal posts moved

No read my original f***ing post. I did say he needs to start scoring…big f***ing IF