Armchair GM Thread LXXXVIII: The Kassian Effect

[Canadian Canuck]

Do whatever you gotta do, but get Tanev signed, and with lots of term. You're not going to get enough value back in a trade to make it even remotely worth it.

I'd give him a Hamhuis type contract in hopes that he takes it.

I think it would be worth it if we could get a locked up ROR IMO. Other than that. Keep Tanev.

 

[Regal]

I think it would be worth it if we could get a locked up ROR IMO. Other than that. Keep Tanev.

I would be hesitant on that even, considering what O'Reilly might want for a contract.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Edler and Tanev have been the only d pair that has stuck all season. I seriously think Benning would be very hesitant to trade Tanev. I don't think it will happen also because with Bieksa out we would very little NHL experience on the right side if Tanev is moved.

All good points. Still could happen though. It's probable, given his contract situation. The last two times, he's been difficult for the team to sign.

We should have a thread devoted to feelings.

And one for useless posts. Luckily, I had some other content in mine, so I think I'm safe.

Why do you get that feeling?

No contract, and he allows them to make a big move. It's not something a Canucks fan would normally expect, given his play, but it all depends upon the direction Benning wants pursue for the team.

Maybe they feel that way because contract negotiations haven't been that close so far.

But I don't see how they could consider moving Tanev right now or in the near future. He's young, right handed, and our best/2nd best d-man right now.

Basically, true. But as we know, an unsigned Dman of his calibre will have that question mark until he is signed.

 

[Addison Rae]

I think it would be worth it if we could get a locked up ROR IMO. Other than that. Keep Tanev.

Nope, that isn't a good trade for us. Our depth at RHD is atrocious without Tanev.

 

[Addison Rae]

This is true too. That's why I'm not complaining too much. Didn't like the deal but not going to dwell on it. I'm just hoping McCann turns out to be something special. Bonino and Sbisa I see as stop gaps who will both be gone soon.

Why is Nick Bonino just a stop gap? He's incredibly underrated on here.

 

[Bleach Clean]

Nope, that isn't a good trade for us. Our depth at RHD is atrocious without Tanev.

You're right. The quality of depth is poor without Tanev. However, if it is determined that he will not re-sign here, then that's as good a deal to pursue as any.

I actually didn't know contract talks with Tanev began a couple of weeks ago: http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/682779

"It sounds like serious contract talks with (Tanev) will begin this week," Sportsnet's Elliotte Friedman reported during Hockey Night in Canada's "Headlines" segment on Saturday.

Hopefully, he gets re-signed and we can put this thought to bed.

 

[VC]

If Tanev were to be moved that would be more of an off season kind of deal. It would be disruptive to do mid-season.

 

[Addison Rae]

You're right. The quality of depth is poor without Tanev. However, if it is determined that he will not re-sign here, then that's as good a deal to pursue as any.

I actually didn't know contract talks with Tanev began a couple of weeks ago: http://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/682779



Hopefully, he gets re-signed and we can put this thought to bed.

He's a RFA, he has little say towards re-signing here or not. If they offer him a fair contract, I don't see why he'd decline.

 

[Regal]

Why is Nick Bonino just a stop gap? He's incredibly underrated on here.

He's a solid player but he's a tweener center who doesn't offer any particular standout qualities. He can be a part of a good team, but he'l never be considered a core piece. To me he's the type of guy who likely bounces around the top 6 of mediocre teams and bottom 6 of contenders trying to get scoring depth.

 

[WTG]

In the future when Horvat is 2c and Gaunce/McCann are up with the team then I could see Bonino being a top 6 2LW. Bonino is definitely a cheap top 6 player. Only 26 having a great year (despite still going cold for a stretch there). I would want to keep Bonino.

 

[thedean]

Tanev to me is one of those player that when you get them you hang onto and never let go, unless of course his contract demands are silly.

He's not a centerpiece type player but he's probably one of the best complimentary dmen out there.

 

[Addison Rae]

He's a solid player but he's a tweener center who doesn't offer any particular standout qualities. He can be a part of a good team, but he'l never be considered a core piece. To me he's the type of guy who likely bounces around the top 6 of mediocre teams and bottom 6 of contenders trying to get scoring depth.

He's been right there with Kesler in terms of effectivness to their respective teams, and I don't mead just points. Bonino plays tough minutes and produces better results than Kesler in terms of possession, and is out scoring him at even strength. But Kesle huz more grit, strength and intangibles so he's an elite 2nd line centre!1

 

[Bleach Clean]

He's a RFA, he has little say towards re-signing here or not. If they offer him a fair contract, I don't see why he'd decline.

"Fair" to them may not be fair to him.

Tanev still has a say in re-signing here or not. He could sit out, or ask for a trade. Nothing guaranteed.

It's good that they are entering into serious talks with him right now. Cannot delay things further. He's either signed for term, or traded for value soon. The speed of which will depend upon what assets are available.

 

[VC]

Bonino is a bit of a tweener but a skilled offensive one. Surround him better skill and he will produce beit on the PP or 5on5. Once some of the young guys mature (Kassian, Vey, Clendening) or somebody is brought in you'll see Bonino in point range/pace.

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

lawl you know Don Cherry ripping the Canucks' team toughness really hurt a 'meat and potato's' guy like Benning.

 

[WTG]

Cherry is talking **** about the Canucks?

 

[Regal]

He's been right there with Kesler in terms of effectivness to their respective teams, and I don't mead just points. Bonino plays tough minutes and produces better results than Kesler in terms of possession, and is out scoring him at even strength. But Kesle huz more grit, strength and intangibles so he's an elite 2nd line centre!1

It's obvious to anyone watching that Bonino isn't Kesler. He had a hot streak at the beginning of the year that he hasn't been able to sustain, and while season's are full of ups and downs, you need someone who doesn't disappear for long stretches. Bonino reminds me of Wellwood, slow, small, skilled, underrated defensively, and effective in his role, but nothing really special. I don't think any GM in the league looks at Bonino as a second line center and thinks "I'm set at this position". I like him on the team, but I worry that he's going to get overpaid on his next contract if he puts up solid points, and I wouldn't be opposed to dealing him while he's on a sweet deal and his value is at it's highest if he can bring back a good return.

 

[Addison Rae]

"Fair" to them may not be fair to him.

Tanev still has a say in re-signing here or not. He could sit out, or ask for a trade. Nothing guaranteed.

It's good that they are entering into serious talks with him right now. Cannot delay things further. He's either signed for term, or traded for value soon. The speed of which will depend upon what assets are available.

Fair enough, but you and I know how unlikely that would be. There's a 95% chance Chris Tanev is a Canuck next year IMO.

 

[Bleach Clean]

It's obvious to anyone watching that Bonino isn't Kesler. He had a hot streak at the beginning of the year that he hasn't been able to sustain, and while season's are full of ups and downs, you need someone who doesn't disappear for long stretches. Bonino reminds me of Wellwood, slow, small, skilled, underrated defensively, and effective in his role, but nothing really special. I don't think any GM in the league looks at Bonino as a second line center and thinks "I'm set at this position". I like him on the team, but I worry that he's going to get overpaid on his next contract if he puts up solid points, and I wouldn't be opposed to dealing him while he's on a sweet deal and his value is at it's highest if he can bring back a good return.

I have roughly the same thinking on this. Bonino has compared well to Kesler this year. Both in terms of possession and ES production. But I don't expect him to keep his performance in lock step with Kesler moving forward. Don't think many people do...

Decent enough player though. I like that he's a centre - can never have too many good/decent ones.

Fair enough, but you and I know how unlikely that would be. There's a 95% chance Chris Tanev is a Canucks next year IMO.

It's unlikely, I agree. Especially if they are trying to get him locked up now. That urgency makes clear their intent. All it comes down to now is Tanev putting pen to paper...

 

[Jimson Hogarth*]

Cherry is talking **** about the Canucks?

He said the Canucks response to the Kesler hit on Dorsett was not good, then compared it to the Ducks response when Kassian hit Maroon.

Anyhow, I think its fair to say Benning will look to add some significant "team tough" components to the team between now and the start of next season. I doubt he lets the team get caught in this *****cat position again.

 

[kanucks25]

The man who sees Sbisa as a potential top 4 d-man.

No he doesn't. Let it go, people.

If Sbisa wasn't acquired through a trade that involved Kesler, you'd more than likely be correct, however, that isn't the case. I think it's possible, sadly, that Sbisa gets that QO. It would be stupid, but I could see it as Benning not having the stones to admit making a mistake on Sbisa.

Exactly this, sadly.

Tanev could be moved if we can't find a taker for Sbisa or Burrows. Tanev is playing top pair for only 2m a year right now while Hamhuis and Edler are getting 4.25 (going to 6 next year). Tanev wants to get paid (and rightly so) in a spot where the cap isn't moving much to accompany it.

We have a lot of players needing new contracts next year and we're probably going to need to shed salary somewhere to fit them in. It's a really tough call - if keeping Tanev means losing two of Dorsett, Matthias or Richardson, do you do it? Tanev is the better player, but we need depth too (and Tanev will also get a better return).

Yes. Dorsett, Matthias, Richardson are incredibly easier to replace than Tanev will be.

Exactly this, again. I like Matthias and Dorsett but their worth to this team isn't anything close to Tanev's.

I think it would be worth it if we could get a locked up ROR IMO. Other than that. Keep Tanev.

I will never understand why Canucks fan want ROR, at least at the cost of Tanev. Makes zero sense to me.



I'm kind of getting this bad feeling about Tanev too, and it'll continue til he is signed. I've supported Benning since he's been hired but if he trades Tanev instead of Bieksa, there's no defending that

Based on stats, Tanev won't cost a whole lot to sign and probably won't garner a whole lot on the trade market. His value to the team is far greater to the value he'll bring via trade. This re-signing is a no-brainer and I don't see him wanting out with the role he's been given and how much his teammates seem to like him. I know some people are wary because he's already had a few contract disputes but I assume that was just him trying to negotiate a longer term deals when management wanted "show me" deals.

 

[Nuckles]

No he doesn't. Let it go, people.

Sorry, I worded that incorrectly.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=724249

With the proper coaching, Sbisa can be a top-four defenseman, Benning said.

I guess we don't have the proper coaching.

 

[RandV]

"Fair" to them may not be fair to him.

Tanev still has a say in re-signing here or not. He could sit out, or ask for a trade. Nothing guaranteed.

It's good that they are entering into serious talks with him right now. Cannot delay things further. He's either signed for term, or traded for value soon. The speed of which will depend upon what assets are available.

We don't really know what 'fair' to Tanev is since while some are labeling him a problem to resign both the deals he ended up taking were short term low balls. 1 Year at $1.5M, another year at $2.0 mil, all the while playing solid top 4 minutes for us. I'd imagine he looks at current and former teammates Edler/Hamhuis/Bieksa/Garrison and wants to be paid accordingly.

Who knows maybe he's asking to be paid as much as Edler and that would be a problem, but so far the most the Canucks have given him is $2 million, there's a big gap between that and Edler's $6 million. The team has leveraged the RFA status against Tanev so far, but he'll have UFA rights soon so he should be looking to put that leverage in his favour this time.

 

[Numbers]

Sorry, I worded that incorrectly.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=724249


I guess we don't have the proper coaching.

Sbisa is a young player with a lot of NHL experience. Last year we were roasting Edler for bad defensive mistakes and now we are calling him one of the best defencemen in the league. I don't think Sbisa will ever be as good as Edler, but I think they have very similar tools. At 25 if we give Sbisa another 2-3 years to develop at age 27 or 28 there is an argument to be made that he could become a top 4 dman. Further to this point that works well for Canucks future. Edler and Hamhuis I see locked in as the top 2 left dmen for another 2-3 years at least. Therefore Sbisa will have time to develop and fill in at top 4 for injuries.

 

[Numbers]

We don't really know what 'fair' to Tanev is since while some are labeling him a problem to resign both the deals he ended up taking were short term low balls. 1 Year at $1.5M, another year at $2.0 mil, all the while playing solid top 4 minutes for us. I'd imagine he looks at current and former teammates Edler/Hamhuis/Bieksa/Garrison and wants to be paid accordingly.

Who knows maybe he's asking to be paid as much as Edler and that would be a problem, but so far the most the Canucks have given him is $2 million, there's a big gap between that and Edler's $6 million. The team has leveraged the RFA status against Tanev so far, but he'll have UFA rights soon so he should be looking to put that leverage in his favour this time.

I see Tanev signing at around 4m for 5-6 years. Similar contract to Josi, Muzzin, Martinez and Gardiner. Lots of good comparables.