Speculation: Armchair GM Thread: Long long journey through the darkness, where is our goalie?

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Anglesmith

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Sep 17, 2012
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It's really hard to make any kind of decisions until the China and domesticated rosters get mixed. We have to keep in mind that while, yes, Dube has been fantastic this camp, he's also been in the situation where guys typically have fantastic camps. When he gets shuffled into a more NHL-level squad and we see how he fits into a role like that, it will be interesting to see.
 

Dack

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It's really hard to make any kind of decisions until the China and domesticated rosters get mixed. We have to keep in mind that while, yes, Dube has been fantastic this camp, he's also been in the situation where guys typically have fantastic camps. When he gets shuffled into a more NHL-level squad and we see how he fits into a role like that, it will be interesting to see.
But he had a great camp last year as well. Not as good as this one but still a really solid camp. Plus last night he was one of our best players playing against the bulk of a roster that went to the WCF. Preseason isn't done yet but if it were he should be on the team.
 

Baxterman

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Perhaps, but that would mean a Dube or a Mangiapane sees limited ice time. And I'd rather them scorch in Stockton playing big minutes to further their development. Existing roster bubble boys, othern than Hathaway, Lazar, etc. have to be Bennett and Frolik. Neither of whom would be waived. Traded maybe. Waived no. In Frolik's case I'm guessing next off season. In Bennett's case, if he finally breaks out he's going nowhere.

I think he could easily get 10 minutes a night in Calgary. I think the minutes are going to be a lot more even than in past years and the "4th line" will be a lot closer to 10 minutes than 5/6 mins.

It's really hard to make any kind of decisions until the China and domesticated rosters get mixed. We have to keep in mind that while, yes, Dube has been fantastic this camp, he's also been in the situation where guys typically have fantastic camps. When he gets shuffled into a more NHL-level squad and we see how he fits into a role like that, it will be interesting to see.

I agree but it isn't like Dube has to beat out Neal or Lindholm.

I think he is in competition for two spots with Czarnik, Lazar, Hathaway, Mangiapane and Peluso. I think he has done enough to do that, so far.
 

Nanuuk

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I would hope that the 4 line plays more than 10 minutes a night. I'd like to see ice time even out amongst all the lines as much as possible, assuming they're earning the ice time, and penalties don't skew the allocation. Hopefully that would allow all lines to bring energy to every shift.
 

Lunatik

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Looking at Carolina's TOI/GP for their regulars (12 forwards with the most GP), their 10-12 forwards played 10-11 minutes per night. But that said, they were Kruger, Nordstrom & Di Guiseppe were their 10-12 forwards, so that is a significant step down from our guesstimated 4th line.
 

Baxterman

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I would hope that the 4 line plays more than 10 minutes a night. I'd like to see ice time even out amongst all the lines as much as possible, assuming they're earning the ice time, and penalties don't skew the allocation. Hopefully that would allow all lines to bring energy to every shift.

My math may be off but that seems pretty tough to give them more than 10.

Lets say each line gets 10 min ES off the bat that is 40 mins.
Throw in 10 mins of PP/PK that is 50 minutes.
I think we want more time for the 1st and 2nd line so say 5 min each and there is your 60 min.

Obviously it will change game to game but I certainly don't want the top two lines giving up minutes for the 4th line.

But Peters seems to be along the Babcock line so it is likely the 4th guys get player way too much.
 

Bjornar Moxnes

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Pessimism Thread

So if the expansion draft happens let's say after the 2019-2020 season, does that mean Andersson would no longer be exempt and would need protection? If that's the case, do we protect or expose him? At that point Hanifin is basically a guarantee to be protected. Giordano maybe as well. Brodie likely. Hamonic unlikely. I don't need to bring up Stone or Kulak (Who wouldn't be on our contract list anyways I would assume).

So do we go 4-4 (Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm, Giordano, Hanifin, Brodie, and Andersson) or do we go 7-3 (Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Backlund, Lindholm, Neal/Ryan, Bennett/Jankowski, Giordano/Brodie, Hanifin, and Andersson?). Thankfully Dube and Valimaki will be exempt that draft. And regardless of which route we go, do you think Tre pays Seattle's GM to take someone else (So for example in scenario 1, he'd pay Kylington for Vegas to take Neal).
 

JPeeper

Hail Satan!
Jan 4, 2015
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I’ll throw an idea out there: expansion might be the perfect time to relieve ourselves of Giordanos contract depending on how many years away it is.

My problem is who is the heir apparent #1 D? Brodie plays well with Gio, but can he step up and be a #1 D with someone else?

Will Hanifin's progression exponentially increase and he becomes our #1D (I think he can, but not sure about 2 years away)?

However Gio will be like 37? 38?
 

Calculon

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If the expansion draft is held in 2020, basically every currently signed prospect or player save Valimaki, Dube and Phillips will be exposed. The rules are two years of pro experience or less to be automatically protected and all three of those aforementioned guys are only going pro this year. Which means they'll only have the two years of experience and thus, be exempt.

To start with, two years is a long time in the NHL and it's entirely possible there will be significant changes that make all of this pretty pointless. But for fun, and working only with those already in the system, you can create a rough framework.

If they choose to go 7-3-1, it likely works out to five players as relatively safe locks in Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk, Lindholm, and Backlund while the remaining two spots are contested between Jankowski, Bennett, Neal, Czarnik, and Mangiapane. Also possibly Ryan works himself into that conversation. Frolik will be a UFA.

The expansion draft or the lockout (compliance buyouts) might be the best opportunity to get rid of Neal's contract if it goes south.

Secondly, with regards to the defence, Brodie, Hamonic and Stone will be UFA's that summer. Giordano and Hanifin will still be under contract while Andersson and Kylington will be RFA's. Kulak's a wildcard. A lot depends on Giordano; if he's declined you go with Brodie. If not, things get dicey. So it could be Giordano/Brodie, Hanifin and one of Andersson or Kylington for the list. But there's also the option of trying to re-sign Brodie and maybe Hamonic after the draft and protecting someone else.

On the other hand, going 4-4-1 makes sense if one and only one more forward joins the big three of Monahan, Gaudreau and Tkachuk making it a big four. And at the same time, both Kylington and Andersson solidify themselves as top four or better defencemen. Hanifin's presumably a lock and you either protect Giordano or if he's declined significantly, a re-signed Brodie. So then, at that point, it's basically a choice between losing one Backlund/Lindholm/Jankowski/Bennett/Neal/Czarnik/Mangiapane or Giordano or a soon to be UFA Hamonic/Brodie. Most likely, you lose one of the good young/entering their prime forwards.

As for goalies, if the Flames even have one good goalie to protect, let alone two to worry over, I think everyone is happy. If things go according to plan, it'll probably be Parsons protected.

Lastly, there might be a lockout that season so expansion could be pushed to 2021 in which case, those three players mentioned all the way at the beginning (Phillips, Dube and Valimaki) would also be available to be taken while presumably Brodie would be re-signed. Maybe Hamonic too. Basically, it'd be a lot more complicated and ugly of a situation.

For strategy, the only real goal is avoid repeating the mistakes the Wild and Panthers made. Best and perhaps least expensive strategy would be to follow the Jets, who traded down in the first round to protect their players. But the Jets were only protecting Dano and Enstrom; the Flames will presumably be protecting much better talent. Another choice to be to copy the Ducks are trade an emerging, protected talent in exchange for a cap dump being taken (Ducks traded Theodore so the Knights would take Stoner). For example, trade a Valimaki or Dube or someone else promising so the Seattle Starbucks take Neal/bad contract as well.

Or just cash your 32M cheque, don't overthink things and just let them take the eighth best forward or the fourth best defenceman or second best goaltender. Either way though, it's pretty much a guarantee the Flames are going to lose a much better player this time around.
 

OvermanKingGainer

#BennettFreed #CurseofTheSpulll #FreeOliver
Feb 3, 2015
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My problem is who is the heir apparent #1 D? Brodie plays well with Gio, but can he step up and be a #1 D with someone else?

As long as that someone else is a top pairing caliber LD, yes.

Brodie has played at a 1D level even with partners like Engelland and Stone in the playoffs - even though neither really belongs in a top 4 role and neither allows Brodie to play the right side where he is so dynamic. One od his most successful pairings was with Kris Russell - again a guy who doesn't belong on a top 4. He didn't work out with Hamonic - sometimes a pairing doesn't work out.

Hanifin - Brodie could be a killer top pair in a few years if Giordano's decline finally kicks in. I'm partial to the idea of Kylington - Brodie though. Oliver will need to get stronger but this could be one of those pairs that drop jaws.
 

Tkachuk Norris

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Jun 22, 2012
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Can you imagine the team they could put together in two years. There is so much young talent coming into the NHL. It will be stupid.
 

Mobiandi

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Jan 17, 2015
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No one is safe after Gaudreau, Monahan, Tkachuk. Gio might be exposed to protect a prospect since it's doubtful Seattle will pick him up.
 

Tkachuk Norris

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Jun 22, 2012
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I like Samsonov, but that's a steep price. Give to get I know, but I'm leery of picking up a guy we have very little knowledge of how he's gonna do in NA.

Goaltending is so important. We are deep enough on D and F that we can sacrifice it. We need a goalie.
 

Flames Fanatic

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Aug 14, 2008
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Goaltending is so important. We are deep enough on D and F that we can sacrifice it. We need a goalie.

I guess. Part of me wants to see how he does in the AHL first, but it's a catch 22 on if it raises his value or lowers it. I also want to see Parsons in action this year, as he looks much better in the prospect games and camp this year.

I'm also of the opinion we need to hang onto our picks right now, but a 21 year old elite goalie prospect is probably one area I'd be willing to budge. Not picking till the third round after not picking until the 4th this year sucks though. I'm already worried about having a gap period where our pool gets too weak because of all the picks we've moved in the past two years.
 
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Lunatik

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Oct 12, 2012
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Goaltending is so important. We are deep enough on D and F that we can sacrifice it. We need a goalie.
Yeah we need a goalie, but we don't need another than a huge question mark. Parsons has as much potential as Samsonov, at one point Gillies was considered a top 5 goalie prospect too. As everyone likes to say, goalies are voodoo, selling the farm for an unproven goalie is a bad idea.
 

Fig

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Dec 15, 2014
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Yeah we need a goalie, but we don't need another than a huge question mark. Parsons has as much potential as Samsonov, at one point Gillies was considered a top 5 goalie prospect too. As everyone likes to say, goalies are voodoo, selling the farm for an unproven goalie is a bad idea.

Yup. That's how Toronto ended up gifting Rask to Boston or Ottawa gifting Bishop to Tampa.
 

Lunatik

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Oct 12, 2012
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Yup. That's how Toronto ended up gifting Rask to Boston or Ottawa gifting Bishop to Tampa.
I was thinking it was more how Vancouver ended up allowing Markstrom to be the main piece in the Luongo deal. He too was a top ranked goaltending prospect at one point in time.

The fact of the matter is goalie drafting and development is unlike any other position. You look at starting goaltenders and where they were drafted is all over the map, if they were drafted at all.
 
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