Speculation: Armchair GM Thread - 2020-2021

[Corpus X]

Wouldn't be surprised if Lucic finishes his career in Boston.

Calgary Fans praying for that trade right now.

 

[JPeeper]

I am still flabbergasted this fanbase wants our only center who is not only above 50% in the dot, but one of the best face-off men in the league, shifted to wing.

And to anyone who says Monahan is bad defensively it out to lunch, he plays defence for two players (him and Gaudreau). Of course Monahan isn't going to lead the charge out of the zone, you guys understand centers play down low right and are usually the 3rd man out of a break out, I feel like some of you watch McDavid who plays no defence as a center and expect Monahan to do the same. There's a reason why McDavid puts up 120 points a year and is still a (-) player.

The coaching also tells the top line to dump and chase, which is absurd.

 

[Sparky93]

Wouldn't be surprised if Lucic finishes his career in Boston.

Boston would have to enter into a full blown, scorched earth rebuild, with in the next two years. I don't see it with Mc Avoy, Pastrnak, Debrusk and Carlo already in place, unless Lucic gets bought out

 

[Sparky93]

Everyone talks about Lindholm making Monahan expendable but stylistically, he's much closer to Backlund. 6 years younger, producing at a much higher rate and half a million cheaper. Backlund for Savard +

 

[Dack]

Yikes...

Monahan sucks at defense according to almost every stat (many of which account for that dastardly Gaudreau) he's about as effective in transition as Lucic and his offensive game is all based right in front of the net. Also being awful in transition isn't the mark of a good defensive center, (Backlund leads the rush all the time and is waaaay better than Monahan defensively) Bergeron on the other hand let's his wingers lead transition (but he plays with 2 elite wingers and is actually good defensively).

I'm a little disappointed we doubled down on this core. I'm very tired of beating this dead horse but I don't see how trading a guy who while playing 2nd powerplay minutes and great defense has finished within 5 points of our "1C" twice in the last 4 years for a RD is going to help us. (I know Monahan has outproduced him big the other two seasons but that should happen literally every season if one guys getting #1 PP time and the other isn't.

 

[Mazatt]

This is the perfect year to try all the shit we argue about in here and actually have 1C Bennett, 3RW Monahan, 1D Kylington, Lindholm at C, top line Leivo, f*** it lets find out who's right

 

[Mobiandi]

I don't even think you need advanced stats. Monahan just does not pass the eye test in his role. Backlund is the team's best center by quite a lot

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

Everyone talks about Lindholm making Monahan expendable but stylistically, he's much closer to Backlund. 6 years younger, producing at a much higher rate and half a million cheaper. Backlund for Savard +

Yes, Lindholm is more stylistically a center like Backlund, that does not make them redundant, though. You do not want a center who is stylistically anything like Monahan.

I am still flabbergasted this fanbase wants our only center who is not only above 50% in the dot, but one of the best face-off men in the league, shifted to wing.

Faceoffs are perhaps the least important aspect of center. And it's not as if Lindholm, Ryan, and Bennett are bad at them. Even Backlund is pretty average considering he never has high ground.

Focusing on faceoffs is missing the forest for the trees.

And to anyone who says Monahan is bad defensively it out to lunch, he plays defence for two players (him and Gaudreau). Of course Monahan isn't going to lead the charge out of the zone, you guys understand centers play down low right and are usually the 3rd man out of a break out, I feel like some of you watch McDavid who plays no defence as a center and expect Monahan to do the same. There's a reason why McDavid puts up 120 points a year and is still a (-) player.

McDavid probably isn't going to win any Selkes, but he's better defensively than Monahan. The reason he is a minus player is because the Oilers' blueline is AHL-calibre. If McDavid were playing with Giordano, Brodie, Andersson, Kylington, Hanifin, Hamonic instead of Nurse, Klefbom, Larsson, Bear, Russell he would be a plus player.

And no, playing down low does not preclude leading the breakout. Watch guys like Crosby, Toews, Datsyuk, Kopitar, Backlund etc. They give their defensemen support and proceed to carry the puck out from below the defensive hashmarks to the neutral zone and beyond. Sam Bennett has more defensive zone poise than our entire "top line" combined, but it's especially useful when he is down the middle as the breakout is calm and collected. When he plays wing he is unable to support the play down low the same way.

 

[Volica]

I don't even think you need advanced stats. Monahan just does not pass the eye test in his role. Backlund is the team's best center by quite a lot

Pretty much this.
I didn't need stats to tell me that Monahan is a triggerman for the top line and very little else in between.

 

[Kranix]

Yes the eye test on Monahan has been slightly bleccch the last while.

 

[Dack]

I've been "down" on Monahan since the 2015 playoffs. I should clarify that all of my thoughts came from watching him, analytics just happen to agree with me here.

 

[BobColesNasalCavity]

I've been saying we need to upgrade the 1C spot for 4 years. I love Money, but we need more from the 1C spot and his skills don't offer much more upside.

 

[Volica]

I've been "down" on Monahan since the 2015 playoffs. I should clarify that all of my thoughts came from watching him, analytics just happen to agree with me here.

I may beat you there.
I've been 'down' on Monahan since 2013 Anyone on this board who was around then could probably vouch lol.

I watched a man dominate kids in Ottawa (he was 6'2'' 190 already as a late 18 year old in his draft year). I watched how Lindholm played, and I honestly thought that he was by far the better prospect. I remember everyone on this board was using the Toews comparison for Monahan, and I was like... have you f***ing watched this guy play or are you just finding one scouting report that says that and parroting it? Because he plays nothing like Toews even in junior.

I mean, it's nice that there are numbers that also tell us what I thought I had been seeing for the past number of years now. I know Sean made some strides in the playoffs this past season to round out his game... There have been many offensively gifted players that later in their career figure out both ends of the ice.

My concern, with Sean, is how married this team is to him. Like. In two years from now, is it a priority to get this guy locked up long term before he hits FA? And if that's the case, are you paying him like a top line centre?

 

[Dack]

I may beat you there.
I've been 'down' on Monahan since 2013 Anyone on this board who was around then could probably vouch lol.

I watched a man dominate kids in Ottawa (he was 6'2'' 190 already as a late 18 year old in his draft year). I watched how Lindholm played, and I honestly thought that he was by far the better prospect. I remember everyone on this board was using the Toews comparison for Monahan, and I was like... have you f***ing watched this guy play or are you just finding one scouting report that says that and parroting it? Because he plays nothing like Toews even in junior.

I mean, it's nice that there are numbers that also tell us what I thought I had been seeing for the past number of years now. I know Sean made some strides in the playoffs this past season to round out his game... There have been many offensively gifted players that later in their career figure out both ends of the ice.

My concern, with Sean, is how married this team is to him. Like. In two years from now, is it a priority to get this guy locked up long term before he hits FA? And if that's the case, are you paying him like a top line centre?

I didn't watch him in junior and wanted him because he was a big Canadian center who was getting compared to guys like Bergeron and Toews. In his 9 game stint where he had however many points he had (I think it was 8 or 9) I was very hyped for him, I started to watch games just to see our future 1C and I was just left confused and a little disappointed. He just wasn't involved in the way I thought his early 9 game stretch would suggest. He broke out the next year and I kind of bottled my doubts about him but in the playoffs that year, he and Hudler were both playing injured (big surprise with Monahan) and between what I'd seen to that point and a very unimpactful playoffs, is when I decicided that he'd likely never be a 1c and began to hope Bennett could fill that role (ouch).

The free agency question is a big one for me too, however I don't think the Flames are as commited to Monahan as many believe.

 

[Volica]

I didn't watch him in junior and wanted him because he was a big Canadian center who was getting compared to guys like Bergeron and Toews. In his 9 game stint where he had however many points he had (I think it was 8 or 9) I was very hyped for him, I started to watch games just to see our future 1C and I was just left confused and a little disappointed. He just wasn't involved in the way I thought his early 9 game stretch would suggest. He broke out the next year and I kind of bottled my doubts about him but in the playoffs that year, he and Hudler were both playing injured (big surprise with Monahan) and between what I'd seen to that point and a very unimpactful playoffs, is when I decicided that he'd likely never be a 1c and began to hope Bennett could fill that role (ouch).

The free agency question is a big one for me too, however I don't think the Flames are as commited to Monahan as many believe.

I honestly think pairing him with Gaudreau likely stunted his growth as a player, to be perfectly honest with you.
You kind of think if Calgary took the Horvat route with Monahan, they'd have forced him to kind of figure out more aspects of the game, instead of just being elite at one thing.

His rookie season looked super promising, 20 goals playing with some absolute dog shit on a dog shit team. Dunno. I also think with them putting Monahan and Gaudreau together they essentially immediately crossed Bennett off the list of guys who would get a chance higher up the roster.

 

[Mobiandi]

The make-up of forward group is strange this year with all the bodies we have. I have no idea what kind of lines I even want to see.

I think a Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm would be amazing - like who's going to score on that line? But I also want Lindholm to get a better look at center. I'd like to see Bennett and Dube get Gaudreau. But then where do our finishers in Mangiapane, Monahan and Leivo go?

I think a trade is definitely necessary

 

[Dack]

I honestly think pairing him with Gaudreau likely stunted his growth as a player, to be perfectly honest with you.
You kind of think if Calgary took the Horvat route with Monahan, they'd have forced him to kind of figure out more aspects of the game, instead of just being elite at one thing.

His rookie season looked super promising, 20 goals playing with some absolute dog shit on a dog shit team. Dunno. I also think with them putting Monahan and Gaudreau together they essentially immediately crossed Bennett off the list of guys who would get a chance higher up the roster.

It really did. In order for Bennett to ever leapfrog Monahan he had to outplay him with far less help, I don't think (over a full season I know he had a really productive 4 games or so where they got their teeth kicked in analytically) that Monahan would have done much better as the 3C in 2016-2017 with Brouwer and Versteeg.

Bennett has his own issues but I do believe he was somewhat set up to fail with how he was developed.

 

[OvermanKingGainer]

The make-up of forward group is strange this year with all the bodies we have. I have no idea what kind of lines I even want to see.

I think a Tkachuk-Backlund-Lindholm would be amazing - like who's going to score on that line? But I also want Lindholm to get a better look at center. I'd like to see Bennett and Dube get Gaudreau. But then where do our finishers in Mangiapane, Monahan and Leivo go?

I think a trade is definitely necessary

Gaudreau - Bennett - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Leivo - Dube - Monahan
Lucic - Ryan - Simon

Dube gets two finishers on either Flank. And you can't complain about him getting to play with Sean Monahan, a 30 goal scorer.

Gaudreau gets two players who offset his weaknesses by playing a heavy cycle game while requiring him to drive the play less.

3M line stays intact, there's nothing wrong with them, and if Tkachuk were healthy in the playoffs that would be obvious.

4th line creates lots of chances, hopefully converts on them too.

 

[Mazatt]

Normally you can point to some plays where someone is outstanding and shows potential in other areas but tbh, Monahan has very disappointing puckhandling that really holds him back. Coupled with average speed and below average edgework it really limits what he's able to do. I wonder how effective giving him the Horvat treatment would've been--I doubt that cuts down on his injury concerns. And at this point, his injuries are probably a big cause for the way he plays now--his wrist is messed up and he's had to get the hernia surgeries. I feel he had great potential and now we're having skewed perspectives because there are so many ways to view where he has gone wrong recently. Did playing with Gaudreau stunt him? Or did the injuries put him back?

Monahan is still a smart player and you'll see him make the smart offensive plays but I don't feel he has any sort of extra dynamic in his game that will let him drive the play. Tbh he's still going to be great at what he does but we can't pidgeonhole him as the 1C anymore

 

[Mobiandi]

Gaudreau - Bennett - Lindholm
Tkachuk - Backlund - Mangiapane
Leivo - Dube - Monahan
Lucic - Ryan - Simon

Dube gets two finishers on either Flank. And you can't complain about him getting to play with Sean Monahan, a 30 goal scorer.

Gaudreau gets two players who offset his weaknesses by playing a heavy cycle game while requiring him to drive the play less.

3M line stays intact, there's nothing wrong with them, and if Tkachuk were healthy in the playoffs that would be obvious.

4th line creates lots of chances, hopefully converts on them too.

I want to see Dube developed as a center but I'm also hesitant to separate him from Bennett. They looked brilliant together in August training camp and the post-season. I think we have a match there that we shouldn't mess with for now. If we give them and Gaudreau and some softer minutes at the start, we could get his confidence back up again and really do some damage with that trio.

I just can't help but feel we don't have enough swiss-army knives in our middle 6. I think Simon with Monahan could be interesting but it's crying out for a 2016/17 Frolik-type guy to take it to the next level.

 

[Sparky93]

This is the kind of nonsense that make people hope that Backlund is gone in the expansion draft and Bennett + Kylington are packaged for a defenseman. Just pure delusional comedy.

 

[Bounces R Way]

None of Monahan, Gaudreau, or Giordano were good enough last season outside of a couple weeks here and there. All the added depth won't matter that much if they don't bounce back. Lindholm and Tkachuk were better but not really by that much even.

Those 5 players will all need to play well in 2020-21 especially if the season is significantly shortened. There's really not the month and a half 'figuring it out' period the Flames usually take to start the season. The roster has a lot of versatility right now, probably the best roster the Flames have had in 30 years. Hopefully Ward can find the right combination and get the team playing a style that will maximize their success.

 

[Mobiandi]

There's really not the month and a half 'figuring it out' period the Flames usually take to start the season.

Triggered

 

[FlamesFan18]

Monahan is a steal for being what he is for being taken 6th overall in an underwhelming draft that he still leads in goals. Yes, he was horrible this season (as was Johnny) but prior to this season he was on an upward trend and has been an average 1c or above average 2c caliber since and very consistent at putting up points since entering the league. That is excellent value for where we got him.

The mistake has always been that the organization decided Sean was "the guy" to lead us as the 1C to a cup. This year he fell off a cliff and as a result so did the team, so now we want to sell him cheap and for what? An older, more expensive similar tier player in Toews? Picks/prospects that are years away and might not even end up as good as Sean while the rest of the core gets old? I don't blame Monahan at all for our organization failing to find a true 1C for decades.

Keep Monahan and Gaudreau and hope it was a one-off season. We were 10 seconds away from going up 3-1 on Dallas with Cam Talbot in net and the worst versions of 13, 23, 19 and 5.

 

[User1996]

I think that not only will adding a guy like Leivo, and continued improvement from Dube and Mangaipane (perhaps Bennett too) help to have a whole bunch of potential line combos, it very well could help take some pressure off Gaudreau, Monahan and Lindholm should that line be kept together.

Some semblance of a tertiary scoring threat after the Backlund line is something we haven’t had in a long time. Dube - Bennett - Leivo could score a whole bunch of goals.