Speculation: Armchair GM Thread - 2020-2021 III

[DFF]

Button is average at best. We have one of the worst systems even when we never won anything and went through the bottom.

fox was a good pick but he was not a secret...he was undersized with defensive issues

and I doubt he even scouted him

 

[Dack]

The last time we hitched our wagon to a mega draft, we ended up with 2 busts and a a guy everyone is excited to shoot into the sun

Flames luck right? 2013 was suppose to be a huge draft... of the 30 players selected in the first round, only 5 of them played less than 50 games in the NHL. Flames had 4 of them within their organization at one point of time

I think our scouting has improved a lot since then. I'm not thrilled with 2017 or 2018 but all of 2015, 2016, 2019 (mainly due to Wolf), and 2020 look like good drafts by the Flames.

Back in 2013 Feaster was still running the show and we were routinely picking guys 20+ spots higher than they were projected. Now we're taking guys like Poirier, Francis and Kylington after they've fallen 30+ spots from where they were ranked. 2014 was even worse as the only Burke led draft.

 

[DFF]

yeah those were bad but that was not a button style draft. I look at players like Wolf, Poirier, Francis, Mangiapane, Pettersen, Ruzicka, Phillips. He seems to find guys with a chance in the late rounds when most people are throwing #%*} at a wall and hoping it sticks.

Lol I see one NHLer there

 

[User1996]

Lol I see one NHLer there

I mean, how many would you expect to see on a list of 7 3rd - 7th round picks that includes 4 players from the last 3 drafts? Then you have 2 of the remaining 3 likely to get a look in the NHL at some point this year. And then the one NHL player was arguably our best forward this season.

Not bad at all.

 

[Ainsy01]

Why havent we seen a line centered by Lindholm with Johny on the wing? Or have we? Id like to see this line rolled out for a game or two, why not?

Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachyk

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Flames likely to be quiet at the trade deadline
Treliving is open to anything but the deals he wants to do typically wait until the offseason
Flames are taking calls and received interest on Rittich
Been more quiet on Ryan and lower priced pending UFAs -Sureloss



Exciting times. I really hope that the deals he wants to do don't involve swapping out our guys who aren't good enough for different guys who also aren't good enough then running it back next year. But knowing the Flames that's probably exactly what it means.

It seems crazy to me. Gaudreau's value isn't likely to go up in the last 18 games of the season. Yeah its a weird year but if they wait until the summer to trade him I guarantee you they are going to get a worse return.

I don't understand what's stopping them from making a mid season deal. Far bigger deals have been made at the deadline, its not some unprecedented thing. Sure, COVID adds some wrinkles but if you're trading him to a contender they should be just fine letting him miss 4-5 regular season games so long as they have him for their playoff run.

The offers aren't going to get better, especially if they keep playing him with Monahan and Ritchie.

Treliving is terrified of looking like an idiot so he refuses to make unpopular trades. He manages this team like he's playing not to lose. Just like the Flames do on the ice.

 

[Mazatt]

Button is average at best. We have one of the worst systems even when we never won anything and went through the bottom.

fox was a good pick but he was not a secret...he was undersized with defensive issues

and I doubt he even scouted him

We have one of the worst systems because the high potential farm altering picks are normally taken in the 1st round, and Button has had the ability to draft from the 1st round 4 times under Treliving iirc. Valimaki, Pelletier, Tkachuk, Zary.

The Flames routinely have found depth, talent, and potential late in rounds under Treliving and Button. However you want to discredit them doesn't change they are the guys in charge and the Flames have had successful late round drafting under them. Drafting late the way the Flames have helps build a championship, but the way they have bled first round picks under Treliving makes it really, really hard to have the top-end talent that makes that depth worthwhile. That isn't a Button issue, that's a Treliving issue.

 

[DFF]

I mean, how many would you expect to see on a list of 7 3rd - 7th round picks that includes 4 players from the last 3 drafts? Then you have 2 of the remaining 3 likely to get a look in the NHL at some point this year. And then the one NHL player was arguably our best forward this season.

Not bad at all.

yes but nothing extraordinary

 

[DFF]

We have one of the worst systems because the high potential farm altering picks are normally taken in the 1st round, and Button has had the ability to draft from the 1st round 4 times under Treliving iirc. Valimaki, Pelletier, Tkachuk, Zary.

The Flames routinely have found depth, talent, and potential late in rounds under Treliving and Button. However you want to discredit them doesn't change they are the guys in charge and the Flames have had successful late round drafting under them. Drafting late the way the Flames have helps build a championship, but the way they have bled first round picks under Treliving makes it really, really hard to have the top-end talent that makes that depth worthwhile. That isn't a Button issue, that's a Treliving issue.

i am just balancing out the people claiming button is some kind of scouting extraordinare and exempted from the flames issues

a blind mice would have picked Tkachuk, valimaki can go either way and I’ll choose to wait on pel and Zary. For all we know they could be the next Kimchuk and Poirrier who by the way were Button’s picks

 

[Fig]

i am just balancing out the people claiming button is some kind of scouting extraordinare and exempted from the flames issues

a blind mice would have picked Tkachuk, valimaki can go either way and I’ll choose to wait on pel and Zary. For all we know they could be the next Kimchuk and Poirrier who by the way were Button’s picks

Shooting super far left and super far right isn't a bullseye. An exaggerated discrediting narrative based on no factual information doesn't do anything but add to the noise.
No one is saying Button is god mode, we're saying he's easily above average when given the opportunity to pick in the way he wants to pick and this is based off of his actual real world body of work.

I don't think Button's involvement with those two are as deep as you are hinting at, but you have to also recall Klimchuk derailed due to illness and injuries and Poirier derailed due to substance abuse (alcohol?).

Lol I see one NHLer there

Of that list, only one is from prior to the 2016 draft and they're all late rounders. From 2016 onwards, exceptionally few NHL teams have players drafted in the 3rd round or later in the NHL. You're bizarrely claiming to be the balancing opinion, but you literally are also thinly hinting that anything less than god mod drafting from Button is a failure. Especially late rounders from 2015 and later.

 

[Ainsy01]

Trade Guadreau and Monahan (13mil) for Eichel, then sign Hall (17.5m)
Get the other 4.5 from letting derek ryan walk and signing a cheaper backup to replace Rittich (zagadoulin) or trading Bennett for picks

Chucky - Eichel - Lindhom
Hall - Backlund - Dube/Mangiapane

 

[User1996]

yes but nothing extraordinary

Expecting extraordinary from those rounds on a regular basis is unrealistic IMO.

 

[DFF]

Expecting extraordinary from those rounds on a regular basis is unrealistic IMO.

Totally agreed. Expect nothing, got nothing.

 

[User1996]

Totally agreed. Expect nothing, got nothing.

Can’t label late round picks from the last couple years “nothing” either.

 

[Fig]

Totally agreed. Expect nothing, got nothing.

This statement makes no sense. Based on a casual glance, for the 3rd round and beyond in 2015 and 2016, the Flames draft picks in comparison to other teams are easily top 5-10 in the league (above 15 teams) for top 9F and top 4D quality level of games played. More than half of teams have seemed to start to graduate players from both rounds. (Mangiapane middle 6/Fox top pairing) and we traded Fox because other teams thought he had value. How is that nothing?

In 2017 and onwards, Flames have not graduated any players drafted in the 3rd round or later, but I don't really notice any significant players in the 3rd round and beyond playing meaningful games for NHL teams (or at least I didn't notice many who have played more than maybe a dozen games or so). We do know that there are a few players that seem like they might have a chance at playing NHL games, but at this point it's too early and no one really leads or loses for any NHL team for finding gems in the late rounds.

 

[Mobiandi]

I think Bennett's here to stay

 

[super6646]

I think Bennett's here to stay

Doubt it. And even if we don’t trade him I sure as hell don’t think he should be protected over backs rn.

 

[Simplythebreast]

I think Bennett's here to stay

Can you expand on that idea and give a reason as to why he would be kept?

 

[User1996]

Can you expand on that idea and give a reason as to why he would be kept?

Because this team gets a kick out of playing/overpaying horrible hockey players

 

[CamPopplestone]

It seems crazy to me. Gaudreau's value isn't likely to go up in the last 18 games of the season. Yeah its a weird year but if they wait until the summer to trade him I guarantee you they are going to get a worse return.

I don't understand what's stopping them from making a mid season deal. Far bigger deals have been made at the deadline, its not some unprecedented thing. Sure, COVID adds some wrinkles but if you're trading him to a contender they should be just fine letting him miss 4-5 regular season games so long as they have him for their playoff run.

The offers aren't going to get better, especially if they keep playing him with Monahan and Ritchie.

Treliving is terrified of looking like an idiot so he refuses to make unpopular trades. He manages this team like he's playing not to lose. Just like the Flames do on the ice.

I guarantee off season would give a bigger return for Gaudreau than now. Nobody wants to add an extra expansion protected player before that draft, plus after Seattle does their draft there will be teams with more cap flexibility.

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

I guarantee off season would give a bigger return for Gaudreau than now. Nobody wants to add an extra expansion protected player before that draft, plus after Seattle does their draft there will be teams with more cap flexibility.

If I were a team in my cup window, I'd absolutely sacrifice a lesser player to an expansion team to get 2 playoff runs with a player like Gaudreau instead of 1. And there are plenty of contenders who could send enough salary back to relieve that constraint.

Maybe I'm underestimating how risk averse NHL managers are. That's probably why there are so many bad ones.

 

[Mobiandi]

Can you expand on that idea and give a reason as to why he would be kept?

There was a presser today in which Sutter and Bennett both commented on their mutual happiness with one another. Seems kind of strange and out of nowhere so I'm not as sure he's out the door anymore

 

[Volica]

Edit, wrong thread.

 

[JPeeper]

Keep Bennett, his awfulness will help the tank next year.

I hope we get first line center Bennett all 82 games next year and the one after that.

 

[lightstorm]

Can you expand on that idea and give a reason as to why he would be kept?

Because Sutter probably cringes at the though of the soft poo line-up he'd end up with. Lucic and..andd...no one else. Tkachuk at this point isnt more than a punk. And people wonder why he plays Ritchie so much.