Speculation: Armchair GM/Rumors Thread v.18.0.1

[Volica]

If there is anything to it, it's Bernier for sure.

There's no doubt about that honestly. That Leafs roster was bad to begin with, and then got injured... AND YET; they are only a point below Edmonton with three games in hand.

Weren't the Oilers suppose to be Canada's only hope at the playoffs like three weeks ago. Looks like they're all in for Matthews. Again.

 

[JurassicTunga]

Bernier had a pretty mediocre night. Although the Leafs are suppose to be a rebuilding team, they're tanking with mostly vets and journeymen there's really no one that played tonight for the Leafs that I was like "hmm, he'd look good in Flames red."

I'm thinking it's Bernier for a cap dump with some other junk moving around at best. Smido going the other way.

Maybe mediocre, but I watched some of that game, and I don't think any of the goals were Bernier's fault. Off the top of my head, on goal 1, he was completely screened by his teammate Marincin. On goal 2, he made a great stop on the first shot, but it seemed like his teammate blocked him from making the 2nd save, he almost got it, but the puck just barely crossed the line. On the 3rd goal, it was a brutal turnover by Reilly and then a cross crease. Tough to make that save for Bernier.

Agreed about the trade. It also seems like it has been rumored for a while that the Flames were interested in Bernier. Ya gotta think it's him.

 

[Lunatik]

Maybe mediocre, but I watched some of that game, and I don't think any of the goals were Bernier's fault. Off the top of my head, on goal 1, he was completely screened by his teammate Marincin. On goal 2, he made a great stop on the first shot, but it seemed like his teammate blocked him from making the 2nd save, he almost got it, but the puck just barely crossed the line. On the 3rd goal, it was a brutal turnover by Reilly and then a cross crease. Tough to make that save for Bernier.

Agreed about the trade. It also seems like it has been rumored for a while that the Flames were interested in Bernier. Ya gotta think it's him.

It also gives the Flames an opportunity to send salary the other way. I suggested a Bernier for Engelland trade in the last thread, Leafs fans wouldn't be happy but I don't think Bernier has much value and I don't think he will be back with the Leafs next year.

 

[JurassicTunga]

It also gives the Flames an opportunity to send salary the other way. I suggested a Bernier for Engelland trade in the last thread, Leafs fans wouldn't be happy but I don't think Bernier has much value and I don't think he will be back with the Leafs next year.

Definitely agree. Good opportunity to send a salary dump, and the Leafs can easily take it on as they will have a lot of space for at least the next 2-3ish years as they rebuild, i'm guessing.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

Bernier
For
Raymond/or Smid +3rd

My guess is they take Smid. Buy out Raymond. cap-space.

 

[Bouma Fett*]

I actually think Bernier will be kept, they have no goalie for next year without him

 

[Lunatik]

I actually think Bernier will be kept, they have no goalie for next year without him

They have Sparks and I think Lou goes hard after Andersen. Lou if anyone knows how vital goaltending is, he will overpay to bring someone in if he needs to.

 

[MakeCgyGreatAgain]

Bernier
For
Raymond/or Smid +3rd

My guess is they take Smid. Buy out Raymond. cap-space.

No way Bernier is worth a 3rd. I would only trade a dump contract for him. Otherwise there are plenty of other options.

 

[FLAMES666]

No way Bernier is worth a 3rd. I would only trade a dump contract for him. Otherwise there are plenty of other options.

Like who?

The goaltending market is actually really bad this off season. A 3rd is reasonable.

 

[Tkachuk Norris]

No way Bernier is worth a 3rd. I would only trade a dump contract for him. Otherwise there are plenty of other options.

The third was mostly for the cap dump

 

[Demetric]

I would do a trade for Bernier if one or more of Stajan, Raymond, Smid or Engelland were involved

 

[Ace Rimmer]

I feel like I'm in the minority not wanting to trade Engelland. He seems to be able to strangely step up his game when given more opportunity. Sure he's a touch overpaid, but not terribly so.

Of course, that's what makes him tradeable over the likes of Raymond.

 

[moon*]

I feel like I'm in the minority not wanting to trade Engelland. He seems to be able to strangely step up his game when given more opportunity. Sure he's a touch overpaid, but not terribly so.

Of course, that's what makes him tradeable over the likes of Raymond.

There are certainly a lot of other overpaid guys I would want to see gone before him- Smid, Raymond, Wideman, Ramo, Jones.

Engelland is perfect as the 6th defenseman for this team and if we don't have a ton of other overpaid guys his contract doesn't hurt us that badly.

He certainly isn't a guy I would want to dump for cap reasons.

 

[Volica]

The Bernier for Smid trade on Calgary's side would be tempting, but then again, Smid's more or less a perfect buyout candidate in the summer.

Stajan, Raymond or Engelland would be good trades for Calgary. I doubt Raymond, since he's not even in Calgary. Stajan would be nice to get off the books. Gives Toronto another trade-able asset for the year after next's TDL; because you can force feed Staj top 6 minutes and he'll produce some points. He can be a good depth guy for some organizations. In Calgary, hopefully, next year he'll only be a 4th line C.

Engelland, while overpaid, I'm not sure that I'd like to trade. He's more or less a pillar on the bottom pair. Kind of guy you want down there, who can also swap to F if need be, or can also swap to top 4 if you're in a crunch and won't look too out of place in the short-term.

 

[Demetric]

i would add wideman to that list as well

 

[InfinityIggy]

I feel like I'm in the minority not wanting to trade Engelland. He seems to be able to strangely step up his game when given more opportunity. Sure he's a touch overpaid, but not terribly so.

Of course, that's what makes him tradeable over the likes of Raymond.

I agree with the bolded. He is the most steady bottom pairing guy we have had in quite awhile. I'd like to hang on to Stajan as well, really good 4th line C and all around good guy.

If we could move Raymond or Smid over him that'd be great.

 

[Lunatik]

I feel like I'm in the minority not wanting to trade Engelland. He seems to be able to strangely step up his game when given more opportunity. Sure he's a touch overpaid, but not terribly so.

Of course, that's what makes him tradeable over the likes of Raymond.

I think sending Engelland rather than Smid/Raymond would prevent us from having to add a sweetener. I think to dump Smid/Raymond we will have to give up a 2nd to get them to take the salary. Where as Engelland is useful, especially to a rebuilding team.

 

[Unlimited Chequing]

I think a lot of people don't realize the value of Stajan.

Sure, he might not put up the numbers on the ice, but he's a hell of a guy in the locker room and community and a huge mentor to all our young players and that in itself makes him worth more than his weight in gold for a young, up and coming team. Don't forget how the entire team rallied behind him when he lost his son. The way the guys supported him, you don't do that to a guy who's just "okay". And it's not like his contract is a huge burden on us.

Quite honestly, I'd be more than happy to re-sign him after this contract for ~2.5/year (+/- .5M) for a couple years and have him retire a Flame.

 

[RedHot]

I think a lot of people don't realize the value of Stajan.

Sure, he might not put up the numbers on the ice, but he's a hell of a guy in the locker room and community and a huge mentor to all our young players and that in itself makes him worth more than his weight in gold for a young, up and coming team. Don't forget how the entire team rallied behind him when he lost his son. The way the guys supported him, you don't do that to a guy who's just "okay". And it's not like his contract is a huge burden on us.

Quite honestly, I'd be more than happy to re-sign him after this contract for ~2.5/year (+/- .5M) for a couple years and have him retire a Flame.

He has 10 points this year. Thats simply not enough for a player getting paid over 3 mil per year. And he's signed for 2 more years after this one.

If you can trade Stajan this summer, you do it. His production can easily be replaced by a younger player. Sure, he might be vocal, but the Flames already have a pretty good veteran captain.

When you start making emotion-based decisions, that's when you get into cap trouble.

 

[Volica]

He has 10 points this year. Thats simply not enough for a player getting paid over 3 mil per year. And he's signed for 2 more years after this one.

If you can trade Stajan this summer, you do it. His production can easily be replaced by a younger player. Sure, he might be vocal, but the Flames already have a pretty good veteran captain.

When you start making emotion-based decisions, that's when you get into cap trouble.

Bingo.
I understand he's a heart/soul guy, but man, that's a big price tag for that. I'd rather pay Big Ern 700k next year to do that, and he can sit in the pressbox all season cheering his boys on and being a leader. When you look at the best teams in the league, they don't have guys making +3million on the forth line. The leaders have to come from the top.

 

[moon*]

Stajan is perfect in the 4th line role and often makes the guys he is playing with in that role much better.

When Jooris and Granlund was in that center spot the 4th line would often get hemmed in their own zone for long periods of time and seemed to be unable to get out of our own end. Stajan was a steadying force in that role and the 4th line was much better with him out there than others.

I would be interested to see how Grant does in that role because he was very impressive in his time up but Jooris, Granlund and I would expect a guy like Arnold are not going to be close to as effective in the role that Stajan plays.

If we can get something of value for him I would move him but he is not on the list of bad contracts and I would not move him just to move him. Having a 4th line that isn't a train wreck is a nice thing to have and has been a key piece in teams like Chicago, Boston and LA while they were winning Cups.

 

[RedHot]

Stajan is perfect in the 4th line role and often makes the guys he is playing with in that role much better.

When Jooris and Granlund was in that center spot the 4th line would often get hemmed in their own zone for long periods of time and seemed to be unable to get out of our own end. Stajan was a steadying force in that role and the 4th line was much better with him out there than others.

I would be interested to see how Grant does in that role because he was very impressive in his time up but Jooris, Granlund and I would expect a guy like Arnold are not going to be close to as effective in the role that Stajan plays.

If we can get something of value for him I would move him but he is not on the list of bad contracts and I would not move him just to move him. Having a 4th line that isn't a train wreck is a nice thing to have and has been a key piece in teams like Chicago, Boston and LA while they were winning Cups.

How is he perfect in that role. He's paid like a third line centre for barely fourth line production. And who does he make better? His most common linemates are probably Bouma and Jones.

Plus he's injury prone. And he's been taking horrible penalties lately.

I'd bet you could put Jooris in that spot and you wouldn't notice a difference.

And show me a player on those cup winning teams that was paid this much on those fourth lines. They win because they find good cheap depth players, so they can pay the top guys big bucks. Not because they have overpaid guys on their fourth line.

 

[moon*]

How is he perfect in that role. He's paid like a third line centre for barely fourth line production. And who does he make better? His most common linemates are probably Bouma and Jones.

Plus he's injury prone. And he's been taking horrible penalties lately.

I'd bet you could put Jooris in that spot and you wouldn't notice a difference.

And show me a player on those cup winning teams that was paid this much on those fourth lines. They win because they find good cheap depth players, so they can pay the top guys big bucks. Not because they have overpaid guys on their fourth line.

We did put Jooris in his position and the line was an absolute trainwreck, couldn't get out of their zone to save their lives.

If you are judging a 4th line guy by his offensive production then of course it doesn't look good but offensively he has been better than Granlund, Jooris equal with Ferland and not much worse than Jones despite getting much worse opportunities than those guys get.

And who cares about what his cap hit is? We are not in a cap crunch right now and we don't pay the salaries of guys. By the time we need the money Stajan will be gone.

Teams like LA, Chicago and Boston could send their 4th line out there and not worry if they got caught out against a 1st line from the other team. If there was an icing those lines could get out of trouble and prevent scoring chances. That is what Stajan provides the Flames with. Take him out of the 4th line center spot and our 4th line is a huge liability that gives up scoring chances non-stop.

If we were a cap team ready to compete sure I would be more concerned but he fits fine in our budget and fills a role we don't have anyone else to take over.

Now if we stop caring about winning then sure who cares if Jooris is out there sucking bad and gifting the other team chances but it still makes zero sense to dump Stajan for nothing when we don't need the cap space, have tons of guys who provide less and are on worse contracts and we have no replacements for him.

 

[FLAMES666]

If your basing Stajans value on production your are out to lunch on what he brings to this team. Not a guy I am trading to get the cap space.

 

[Sparky93]

I don't think Jooris will be on the team next year. As far as Stajan is concerned, he's overpayed and there's younger, cheaper options. Hamilton and Shore should get a chance. Stajan + Jooris for Bernier + 3rd would be fair value. We've got guys that bring less to the table, but let's be serious, nobody wants them and most of those contracts expire after next year anyways.

We won't be a successful team if we continue to overpay bottom 6/bottom pairing guys.