Armchair GM III: No more stinky deadline rentals

[Zetterberg4Captain]

How could he ever let someone he drafted walk? If you get in Hollands good book you're set for life

THIS

so long as you dont rock the boat(hudler) or feel youre worth more than holland is willing to give at that moment(filppula) if you're a drafted red wing you will be a red wing for life

i suspect the ONLY way we ever rid ourselves of Howard is through an expansion draft

 

[TheOctopusKid]

THIS

so long as you dont rock the boat(hudler) or feel youre worth more than holland is willing to give at that moment(filppula) if you're a drafted red wing you will be a red wing for life

i suspect the ONLY way we ever rid ourselves of Howard is through an expansion draft

Not to be argumentative - but aren't those the two criteria that all GM's use to determine if they want a player or not?

1) Cultural/System Fit
2) Market Value

I think your point of contention here is more around the fact that what Holland believes to be market price to value and what you believe are different.

 

[Heaton]

Prediction: Holland will trade for Jiri Hudler at the deadline.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Prediction: Holland will trade for Jiri Hudler at the deadline.

This is my thinking as well, Heard that he might bring him back as rental and that isn't a bad thing.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Darren Helm and Kyle Quincey are coming back. HSJ's latest puff piece article on Helm convinced me it's gonna happen.

Where was the article by HSJ about possibly Helm and Quincey coming back, I tried to look it up in the Detroit Free Press sports section and didn't see it. Unless i'm missing it somewhere.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Prediction: Holland will trade for Jiri Hudler at the deadline.

i'm not sure if i could not jump off the cliff if that happened.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Where was the article by HSJ about possibly Helm and Quincey coming back, I tried to look it up in the Detroit Free Press sports section and didn't see it. Unless i'm missing it somewhere.

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/n...it-red-wings-darren-helm-dirty-work/79803478/

Quincey is just a low percentage signing that is right in Ken Holland's wheel house.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

http://www.freep.com/story/sports/n...it-red-wings-darren-helm-dirty-work/79803478/

Quincey is just a low percentage signing that is right in Ken Holland's wheel house.

Okay thanks i read the article, But somehow missed that he's likely going to be resigned before FA part. Can't see how we could afford to resign Q with big money going to DeKeyser and Mrazek and others.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Not to be argumentative - but aren't those the two criteria that all GM's use to determine if they want a player or not?

1) Cultural/System Fit
2) Market Value

I think your point of contention here is more around the fact that what Holland believes to be market price to value and what you believe are different.

yes and no

while yes other GM's would move out players who fit into either of those two criteria, in KH's mind those are the ONLY kinds of players he can move on from

 

[HockeyinHD]

THIS

so long as you dont rock the boat(hudler) or feel youre worth more than holland is willing to give at that moment(filppula) if you're a drafted red wing you will be a red wing for life

... or, obviously, unless you're not very good.

On the one hand, people are criticizing Holland for being too loyal to people he drafts, but on the other they are criticizing him for not being loyal enough to players he's drafted (prospects in GR) by not giving them more chances. Against other players he drafted.

That argument seems to be at odds with... itself.

Has Holland been too loyal to Ferraro, Nestrasil, Jarnkrok, Emmerton, McCollum, Matthias, Mursak, Ritola, Meech, Bykov, or any of the prospects he's drafted who never saw a minute of NHL time and in many cases barely more than that of AHL time?

IMO there's a line to be straddled here, and it's one made more difficult by having a lot of options. If you draft a player, and he's good, you want to keep him... but you a) can't keep everyone you draft who's good if you draft a lot of good players and b) the more you spend on one the less odds you can keep the rest.

So, that's the fulcrum the roster picots on. Who to keep, how much to pay them, and when to determine the player isn't worth the money versus some other option, either internal or external.

i suspect the ONLY way we ever rid ourselves of Howard is through an expansion draft

Unless he resurrects himself, he's our live grenade all the way.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

THIS

so long as you dont rock the boat(hudler) or feel youre worth more than holland is willing to give at that moment(filppula) if you're a drafted red wing you will be a red wing for life

i suspect the ONLY way we ever rid ourselves of Howard is through an expansion draft

This is pretty much my thinking as well, The only way we might be able to unload on Howard is through the expansion draft, Unless next year there's a lot of starting Goaltending that goes down with injuries.

 

[kook10]

This is pretty much my thinking as well, The only way we might be able to unload on Howard is through the expansion draft, Unless next year there's a lot of starting Goaltending that goes down with injuries.

What people seem to be overlooking is that Mrazek's stock is reaaally high (maybe even unsustainably so). I am surprised that I haven't heard his name dangled.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

What people seem to be overlooking is that Mrazek's stock is reaaally high (maybe even unsustainably so). I am surprised that I haven't heard his name dangled.

Actually his name has come up quite a bit on the big board, Pretty much just asking for value wise and some posters even thought with Howard's contract that Detroit might not be able to hold onto Mrazek but Holland will find a way to i would imagine that Mrazek's value has to be through the roof right now.

 

[TheMule93]

I would trade Mrazek for Hanifin

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

What people seem to be overlooking is that Mrazek's stock is reaaally high (maybe even unsustainably so). I am surprised that I haven't heard his name dangled.

trading away mrazek is as terrible of an idea as those who thought the habs should have traded away price 5 or 6 years ago

price is the montreal canadians and mrzaek may very well be the detroit red wings, no player, again no player that mrazek could or would return today could ever bring that much posibility

 

[TheMule93]

trading away mrazek is as terrible of an idea as those who thought the habs should have traded away price 5 or 6 years ago

price is the montreal canadians and mrzaek may very well be the detroit red wings, no player, again no player that mrazek could or would return today could ever bring that much posibility

When was the last time a team who built around their goaltender won a cup?

 

[BinCookin]

When was the last time a team who built around their goaltender won a cup?

Patrick Roy? x2.

Alternatively when was the last time a team with relatively poor goaltending won the cup?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

When was the last time a team who built around their goaltender won a cup?

quick
thomas

both of those goalies were absolute beasts when they won the cup(including during the season and years before)

while i agree no team has won with JUST an elite goalie its because no team with just ONE elite anything has or will ever win

on top of that, mrazek will not return a franchise level dman while mrazek himself looks like he could very well be a franchise level goalie

 

[kook10]

quick
thomas

both of those goalies were absolute beasts when they won the cup(including during the season and years before)

while i agree no team has won with JUST an elite goalie its because no team with just ONE elite anything has or will ever win

on top of that, mrazek will not return a franchise level dman while mrazek himself looks like he could very well be a franchise level goalie

Right, but so far Mraz hasn't done anything Jimmy hasn't before. An excellent regular season does not a franchise goalie nor a cup make. Hot goalies can garner the same kind of irrational exuberance out of GMs as they can fans.

 

[RabidBadger]

Right, but so far Mraz hasn't done anything Jimmy hasn't before. An excellent regular season does not a franchise goalie nor a cup make. Hot goalies can garner the same kind of irrational exuberance out of GMs as they can fans.

Mrazek figures too heavily in the current and future status of the team to trade him.

Currently, I doubt there's too many people who would feel more confident with Howie in net to take the team to the next level in the playoffs. For future considerations; if the current roster tanks then Petey makes a better building block for the future.

The current team only goes as far as Petr The Great takes them, not vice a versa.

 

[skate skate skate]

This is my thinking as well, Heard that he might bring him back as rental and that isn't a bad thing.

Where have you heard such a thing?!

Darren Helm and Kyle Quincey are coming back. HSJ's latest puff piece article on Helm convinced me it's gonna happen.

Helene is clueless, for real. NO WAY Holland can afford to resign both of these players, even if he wants to. Unless they accepts major pay-cuts or Holland makes a trade to shed some salary it's simply not possible. I guess this is the only positive thing coming off of our cap problems.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Right, but so far Mraz hasn't done anything Jimmy hasn't before. An excellent regular season does not a franchise goalie nor a cup make. Hot goalies can garner the same kind of irrational exuberance out of GMs as they can fans.

if that is the case then their is even less then 0% chance mrazek could return us an impact dman, good point

 

[Classicnamesup]

13.15M in cap space

Need to reup:

DK (2.2)
Sheahan (.95)
Mrazek (.74)
Marchenko (.67)
Pulks (.74)

Need to replace:
KFQ
Brichards
Helm
Andersson

Big contracts on the books
Z 6.083
Dats 7.5
Green 6
Howard 5.3
Goose 4.75
Abby 4.25
E 4.25
Franzen 4
Smith 2.75

That is... not an enviable position to be in.

You are all welcome to try here. The old contracts are bracketed but not included in the cap space. Franzen being on LTIR is obv not included in cap space.

Mrazek, DK & Sheahan alone take up the majority of 13M for me. That is where he trouble starts, players need to be moved.

 

[PelagicJoe]

You are all welcome to try here. The old contracts are bracketed but not included in the cap space. Franzen being on LTIR is obv not included in cap space.

Mrazek, DK & Sheahan alone take up the majority of 13M for me. That is where he trouble starts, players need to be moved.

I know I'm beating that horse corpse yet again, but that Big Rig contract SUCKS. Howard's is just as bad.

 

[19 for president]

This team desperately needs to clean up some of this roster. Smith, Kindl, Big E, Howie, Helm, Quincey, and Richards need to go before next season. The first half just aren't good and the latter are just redundant players. If we need to eat a bit of salary or lose a pick or two so be it. This franchise cannot continue to overspend on midline players, if they want to compete.

In the cap world you have to spend big on your stars and rotate almost everyone else. Very soon guys like Larkin and Mrazek are going to be making 5 or 6 mil, and we are still going to be eating Z and Franzen contracts. Abby will also eventually join them.

Holland needs to figure out soon if Pulks is a legit NHL winger. If he is, then one of Tats or Nyquist needs to be moved for a dman. If not, he needs to be moved before he becomes waiver fodder, ala Jurco. Wings don't need 3 small top 6 wingers, especially since Z will join that group soon.

Holland also needs to figure out who of Marchy, Jensen, Oulette, and Sproul are legit NHL dman. Marchy appears to be, but he needs a full time spot, and Oulette at least needs a cup o tea at the NHL level. They are all losing waiver exemption soon and if we can spend 2 mil on the bottom pair vs 5 or 6 we are in a much better position cap wise.

Your old guard Z, Dats, Kronner and new base Mrazek and Larkin should be the only people safe. I'll throw in DD unless we are moving him for a true number 1. Young cheap guys don't remain cheap for very long anymore. You have to plan for this, and I don't think Holland has done a very good job in planning for this next crop of raises. Loyalty to mid level players doesn't get you anywhere in the cap world.