Arizona Coyotes Lounge XXIV

[TheLegend]

Okay…. Enough of the political stuff.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Finished watching Wednesday and thoroughly enjoyed it. By the end, she almost seemed human.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Finished watching Wednesday and thoroughly enjoyed it. By the end, she almost seemed human.

You finished watching Wednesday Thursday?

 

[Baby Doaner]

They've always been whack jobs.

Can’t get much whackier than this country right now.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I agree. A friend of mine told me about 10 yrs. ago the elections were rigged. I told him he was crazy. It was me who was crazy. We the people are no longer in charge of our destiny.

My comment is not political... it has to do with the law. The reason it would be very difficult to rig an election in the U.S. is due to decentralization and checks and balances. Election laws are established at the state level, but executed by counties. Numerous legal jurisdictions at multiple levels have the authority to review the procedures and results. Some want a federal takeover of state election laws, that would be a huge mistake. Federalism is one feature that makes America great.

 

[Kai Yo T]

So, are you telling me I should stay in my basement and not answer my phones, my business will thrive? People have lost control to the Gov't.


What color is AZ?

Arizona is considered a deep red state because we have voted Republican in almost every presidential election (I think since the 70s) except for 1996 and 2020. So, if you call Arizona's elections corrupt, and Republicans almost always win... Do the math.

Edit: I don't think elections are being stolen. Just more politicians lying to us for their own good.

 

[Baby Doaner]

Arizona is considered a deep red state because we have voted Republican in almost every presidential election (I think since the 70s) except for 1996 and 2020. So, if you call Arizona's elections corrupt, and Republicans almost always win... Do the math.

Edit: I don't think elections are being stolen. Just more politicians lying to us for their own good.

I think you answered your own question with historical data to back it up.

 

[Kai Yo T]

I think you answered your own question with historical data to back it up.

That doesn't answer anything. Simple demographics. Just like a "bible belt" state would be more likely to vote conservative most elections. Lots of states tend to vote for a certain party and I doubt it's because that party is better at stealing elections in that state. What it shows is that the Republican party really messed this one up and parts of it are in so much disbelief that it must be fraud.

Anyways, follow up if you want. I'll let you have the last word lol. I'd better get off the politics again.

 

[rt]

Seems like election corruption has always been a thing, no? Of course there’s all the controversy from mail-ins, drop offs, computers etc from the last six years. But just four years before that the other side was saying it was Russians that stole it. The sides have flip flopped like twice in just the last 6 years, no?

Like 20 years before that it was hanging chads and lawsuits and Dade County and that entire mess of controversy and accusations and Tom foolery.

Then there was the whole Nixon/Watergate/Ford thing with who knows what mixed up in all of that. Early days Wild West intelligence agencies, foreign bad actors, organized crime. Not unlike all the cloudiness around not only the murder of JFK but his election, as well. Hoffa and all that, right?

Things didn’t seem great a hundred years before that either, in the days of Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall, Banking, Oil, and Rail barons. The freaking Civil War. I’ve read so much about shenanigans back then, too.

Heck, even in the beginning. All the way back to Adams and Jefferson and Burr and Hamilton days. I read “Burr” by Gore Vidal and it just seemed like nothing much has changed. Haha.

The parties and the platforms change. But the slimy criminal element to abusing power seems fairly constant. That’s a human being thing. Not a political party thing.

 

[Kai Yo T]

Seems like election corruption has always been a thing, no? Of course there’s all the controversy from mail-ins, drop offs, computers etc from the last six years. But just four years before that the other side was saying it was Russians that stole it. The sides have flip flopped like twice in just the last 6 years, no?

Like 20 years before that it was hanging chads and lawsuits and Dade County and that entire mess of controversy and accusations and Tom foolery.

Then there was the whole Nixon/Watergate/Ford thing with who knows what mixed up in all of that. Early days Wild West intelligence agencies, foreign bad actors, organized crime. Not unlike all the cloudiness around not only the murder of JFK but his election, as well. Hoffa and all that, right?

Things didn’t seem great a hundred years before that either, in the days of Boss Tweed and Tammany Hall, Banking, Oil, and Rail barons. The freaking Civil War. I’ve read so much about shenanigans back then, too.

Heck, even in the beginning. All the way back to Adams and Jefferson and Burr and Hamilton days. I read “Burr” by Gore Vidal and it just seemed like nothing much has changed. Haha.

The parties and the platforms change. But the slimy criminal element to abusing power seems fairly constant. That’s a human being thing. Not a political party thing.

Does politics attract corrupt people or does it corrupt good people? I'm pretty sure it's both.

 

[rt]

Does politics attract corrupt people or does it corrupt good people? I'm pretty sure it's both.

The company you keep.

 

[Kai Yo T]

Delete

 

[MIGs Dog]

That’s a human being thing

True, and not restricted to politics. You can find fraud in all life endeavors: sports, business, art, wine, college admissions, science, research, publishing, marriage, hunting, etc.

The question isn't whether fraud exists; it's whether it was of a magnitude to sway an election. All signs point to no. More importantly, every court in the land has failed to find sufficient evidence.

Does politics attract corrupt people or does it corrupt good people? I'm pretty sure it's both.

Power, money, and fame...tend to corrupt. Not everyone, but many.

 

[Kai Yo T]

The company you keep.

They've proven there is always a degee of election fraud. What they haven't been able to show is that it's ever been on a large enough scale to actually change the outcome.

 

[rt]

True, and not restricted to politics. You can find fraud in all life endeavors: sports, business, art, wine, college admissions, science, research, publishing, marriage, hunting, etc.

The question isn't whether fraud exists; it's whether it was of a magnitude to sway an election. All signs point to no. More importantly, every court in the land has failed to find sufficient evidence.



Power, money, and fame...tend to corrupt. Not everyone, but many.

 

[rt]

They've proven there is always a degee of election fraud. What they haven't been able to show is that it's ever been on a large enough scale to actually change the outcome.

Haha. Who’s “they”? Everyone is corrupt except the investors and the courts. I’m sure glad those guys aren’t. Otherwise who knows what could happen.

I don’t have a dog in the Red Team v. Blue Team fight.

I think it’s naive to think one side of that is more corrupt than the other. The differences are chiefly rhetoric, anyhow. And I’m guessing 90% of them don’t actually believe in any of it.

 

[MIGs Dog]

90% of them don’t actually believe in any of it.

True. Most elected officials don't register a political affiliation until they decide to run for office for the first time. And even then, many will change their affiliation when it suits their purpose. Very few ideologically pure people exist in politics.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

What it shows is that the Republican party really messed this one up and parts of it are in so much disbelief that it must be fraud.

And that's the key -- it's one of those Occam's Razor things - the chances of the bolded above are way more than those of anyone being able to pull off coordinating tens of thousands of ballots in multiple states all going in one direction, mind you being able to keep track of who's in what precinct...because election officials do know these things, and that's probably what the ninja auditors found: "oh, sh*t - there really wasn't any fraud. dammit!"...coordinating all that without leaving sufficient evidence to not survive 60 attempts at proving fraud.

AND add to all that the fact that one of the more notorious people on the side claiming foul - Roger Stone - basically made his name doing the same type of things in the 1970s for Richard Nixon. There's even a term for it - ratf*cking - that came from when people like him and their buddies would juice student government elections at universities in the 1960s. I saw similar things in college in the 1980s - elections between the kind of clueless students who seemed earnest about doing things one way vs. their (usually Greek system) opponents who wanted a different way and would do anything they could get away with to win. I mean, is it illegal to tell all the homeless people in a college town there's free food at the student center, at coincidentally the same time your opponent is scheduled to have a rally there? Especially if you, say, drop a box of donuts on the steps and leave? Because that's the kind of thing Roger Stone did.

 

[Kai Yo T]

Haha. Who’s “they”? Everyone is corrupt except the investors and the courts. I’m sure glad those guys aren’t. Otherwise who knows what could happen.

I don’t have a dog in the Red Team v. Blue Team fight.

I think it’s naive to think one side of that is more corrupt than the other. The differences are chiefly rhetoric, anyhow. And I’m guessing 90% of them don’t actually believe in any of it.

Knowing that there have been judges with political views on both sides of the aisle reviewing these cases is good enough for me. I don't think either side is better, I don't pick a favorite team when it comes to politics.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

True. Most elected officials don't register a political affiliation until they decide to run for office for the first time. And even then, many will change their affiliation when it suits their purpose. Very few ideologically pure people exist in politics.

Or outside of it. I was a RINO; now i'm a DINO - but I arrived at that wishy-washy position only after decades

 

[Fyreman]

True, and not restricted to politics. You can find fraud in all life endeavors: sports, business, art, wine, college admissions, science, research, publishing, marriage, hunting, etc.

The question isn't whether fraud exists; it's whether it was of a magnitude to sway an election. All signs point to no. More importantly, every court in the land has failed to find sufficient evidence.



Power, money, and fame...tend to corrupt. Not everyone, but many.

I know you've heard the old saying- "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely..."

 

[Kai Yo T]

Or outside of it. I was a RINO; now i'm a DINO - but I arrived at that wishy-washy position only after decades

I consider myself a right leaning centrist when it comes to my views, and have voted Republican more times than I have Democrat over the last 30 years. That should show that I'm not here to bash Republicans because I like Democrats better. My views are not biased by party affiliation.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Tell that to the multiple charities and the foundations needing money to put to good use, not to another lying cheating scumbag politician.

Didn’t know you were a politician!

Yup, but we elect the same assholes in, over and over and over.

Not much choice. Do thet even allow
You to vote?

 

[rt]

…anyone being able to pull off coordinating tens of thousands of ballots in multiple states all going in one direction, ...

You start slow and work your way up over nearly 250 years. People are pretty incredible. They got to the moon just a few years after they started trying.

 

[Kai Yo T]

You start slow and work your way up over nearly 250 years. People are pretty incredible. They got to the moon just a few years after they started trying.

Getting the very, very large number of people required on board to conspire, without coming across a whistleblower is what makes it all but impossible IMO.