Arizona Coyotes Lounge XXIV

[Kai Yo T]

The gun is a prop, but it's a real gun, just like a car is a prop, but it can still kill you. The so-called prop expert was not experienced with firearms.

I'm sure the poor safety conditions will be brought up in the trial.

This whole story just screams of major negligence on multiple fronts, from multiple people. From the live bullet even being on set, to the rumored live ammo target practice they were using the gun for on their free time, between shoots (I haven't heard if this reported claim was later determined to be false or still holds.) Alec Baldwin even claimed he didn't pull the trigger, yet the police determined it couldn't have misfired. Interesting to hear that crew left because it had several times.

The safety protocol on set sounds like it was almost non-existent. As the producer Alec Baldwin was responsible for all of this. There seems to be a lot of people covering their own asses. Manslaughter charges sound about right to me.

Edit: Then there's the safety concerns that were reported by staff before the accident that were ignored showing they just didn't give a shit. Further negligence.

 

[Tom Polakis]

Better question is why were live rounds allowed on a movie set? No reason for that to ever happen. Was he responsible for that? If he was then ok, sue him and put him in jail. If not, the person that was is at fault.

That's right. The defense is "never point a gun at anyone," but actors have pointed (and shot) guns at other actors thousands of times in cinema history, and the moviegoing public is endlessly amused by it. Baldwin certainly has some culpability as the producer of the film, but it's the armorer's responsibility to ensure that this can't happen.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

That's right. The defense is "never point a gun at anyone," but actors have pointed (and shot) guns at other actors thousands of times in cinema history, and the moviegoing public is endlessly amused by it. Baldwin certainly has some culpability as the producer of the film, but it's the armorer's responsibility to ensure that this can't happen.

Perry Mason show covered this in the early 60’s, I can’t recall the outcome.

 

[BAdvocate]

It seems the public is more interested in placing/absolving blame than preventing this from ever happening again.

 

[GiveAFlyingPuck]

I saw it happen in the Air Force when I worked nuclear missile security. On a training day we were doing a launch facility recapture exercise. They had a mock up of a missile site on the base where we could do this. We used the MILES (multiple integrated laser engagement system) for the exercise, the military version of laser tag but you fire blanks and that "shoots" the laser. Now the blanks make your weapon (M-16 at the time) extremely dirty and some troops wouldn't want to fire their weapon so they would need to spend so much time cleaning it prior to turning it in at the armory.

Once the exercise was completed, the Sergeants running the training decided to have everyone shoot their unused rounds (blanks). Unfortunately one of the Sgts was taking a weapon with a blank adapter on the end of it (a removeable screw-in metal plug at the end of the barrel) and firing off rounds but eventually had the airman that had the "guard ammo" give him a magazine that had live rounds in it. Since there were 25-30 automatic weapons one guy was given live ammo to make sure no one stole the other weapons. The Sgt fired one live round through the weapon with the blank adapter on it. Luckily no one was killed but there a few shrapnel wounds due to the blank adapter flying apart when the round hit it.

Be careful out there.

 

[MIGs Dog]

It seems the public is more interested in placing/absolving blame than preventing this from ever happening again.

It sounds like the procedures were already in place to prevent this, but they didn't follow them...hence the negligence.

Since there were 25-30 automatic weapons one guy was given live ammo to make sure no one stole the other weapons.

Really? You need an armed airman to prevent other airmen from stealing weapons? Never saw that in the Army.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

The move in Hollywood lately has been to move weapons depictions to CGI - adding muzzle flashes, recoils, etc. in post-production - rather than have real weapons with blank or live rounds. I guarantee you that you've seen something in popular culture, on streaming, in movies, etc. where someone has fired a weapon that looks completely real, but is in fact wholly artificially generated (I believe the John Wick movies went fully CGI with guns, but don't quote me on that).

The upshot is that there is a growing movement in the entertainment industry that says that 95% of the consumer audience won't care if weapons discharge isn't 100% accurate to the actual experience. It certainly would make sets safer and save a whole bunch of infrastructure costs (hiring range safety experts, weapons experts, additional insurance coverage, liability and litigation, etc.) when making shows.

 

[MIGs Dog]

I believe the John Wick movies went fully CGI

Makes sense...cuz John Wick never misses. Those other bums need better CGI artists.

 

[Kai Yo T]

It sounds like the procedures were already in place to prevent this, but they didn't follow them...hence the negligence.

Exactly, there's standard industry-wide safety protocols that exist and were not followed. It is reported they had a safety meeting 2 weeks before they started shooting. If not, this would be a lot more common.

Add to it the reports that part of the crew supposedly walked off the set in protest after their safety concerns were ignored. Rather than address their concerns they were replaced. A choice was made to get rid of the complainers over taking their concerns seriously. Which would be the Producer's decision, I think.

Why didn't they just address their concerns instead? Sounds like they had some warning signs and ignored them all. That's as negligent as negligence gets IMO.

Anyways, trial might be interesting.

 

[GiveAFlyingPuck]

It sounds like the procedures were already in place to prevent this, but they didn't follow them...hence the negligence.



Really? You need an armed airman to prevent other airmen from stealing weapons? Never saw that in the Army.

Yes it was probably overkill since it was happening on the base. Somebody thought it up and probably got promoted over it.

 

[Dirty Old Man]

Makes sense...cuz John Wick never misses. Those other bums need better CGI artists.

Gotta hand it to those 70s Imperial Stormtroopers for missing every time!

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Gotta hand it to those 70s Imperial Stormtroopers for missing every time!

I saw one of those windshield decals depicting a pair of Imperial Stormtroopers and "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" under it, and A) now I need one of those in the worst way and B) I think it'd be awesome if they had a game on May 4th to have a Stormtrooper come out for the military recognition thing.

"This is THX-1138, assigned to the 74th TIE Fighter Wing based on Geonosis. He has served for 8 years and was a survivor of the Death Star 2 explosion. Let's give him a big round of applause!"

 

[RemoAZ]

I saw one of those windshield decals depicting a pair of Imperial Stormtroopers and "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" under it, and A) now I need one of those in the worst way and B) I think it'd be awesome if they had a game on May 4th to have a Stormtrooper come out for the military recognition thing.

"This is THX-1138, assigned to the 74th TIE Fighter Wing based on Geonosis. He has served for 8 years and was a survivor of the Death Star 2 explosion. Let's give him a big round of applause!"

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS (STORMTROOPERS, STAR WARS) 7 INCH VINYL DECAL STICKER | eBay

Suitable to go on just about any smooth surface. These are computer cut stickers that have no background and made from high quality, exterior grade vinyl that lasts. Multiple colors are available! We can customize this sticker for you!

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[RemoAZ]

Support Our Troops, Star Wars First Order Stormtrooper Bumper Sticker Decal JDM | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for Support Our Troops, Star Wars First Order Stormtrooper Bumper Sticker Decal JDM at the best online prices at eBay! Free shipping for many products!

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[GiveAFlyingPuck]

 

[The Feckless Puck]

I may be the only one here who follows football (soccer), but my god, people, Erling Haaland is a frickin' beast.

 

[BAdvocate]

I may be the only one here who follows football (soccer), but my god, people, Erling Haaland is a frickin' beast.

Can't stand him....I was texting with a couple friends when it was 2-0 Spurs.....texted "I'm going to regret this but Haaland sucks!" Went back to look at the score and Haaland had just tied it at 2.

 

[BAdvocate]

Given the Alec Baldwin news today I remembered I just watched Aubrey Plaza on the tonight show who mentioned....

Aubrey Plaza Was Proud There Are No Guns in ‘Emily the Criminal’

“I think it actually makes it more anxiety-inducing,” Plaza said of the indie film’s lack of firepower.

www.indiewire.com

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I saw one of those windshield decals depicting a pair of Imperial Stormtroopers and "SUPPORT OUR TROOPS" under it, and A) now I need one of those in the worst way and B) I think it'd be awesome if they had a game on May 4th to have a Stormtrooper come out for the military recognition thing.

"This is THX-1138, assigned to the 74th TIE Fighter Wing based on Geonosis. He has served for 8 years and was a survivor of the Death Star 2 explosion. Let's give him a big round of applause!"

Well *we* won't get to do that for a while, and maybe even not the Suns the way they're going...but the *Diamondbacks* could pull that off that time of year...

 

[Dirty Old Man]

I may be the only one here who follows football (soccer), but my god, people, Erling Haaland is a frickin' beast.

Ommmmmm....

(yeah, I root for Arsenal - but not in a "Spurs Die!" way, which makes me a bandwagoner - and Haaland frightens me)

(also...serial replies...help me I'm becoming Jakey!)

 

[Kai Yo T]

She still might win in court and get the whack job that's in the office now out. Hopefully anyway!

How many times do election deniers have to lose in court until they become the whack jobs?

 

[Dirty Old Man]

How many times do election deniers have to lose in court until they become the whack jobs?

42.

Oh crap, that nerdy joke fails because it's been more than that, hasn't it.

 

[Kai Yo T]

42.

Oh crap, that nerdy joke fails because it's been more than that, hasn't it.

Its over 85 that I can research (not even counting lost appeals) and we're still going. Judges from both parties too, so the biased judge excuse is just more BS on top of the rest. They have zero evidence and it's proven time and time again. Their conspiracy theories are routinely debunked. Insanity. Stop the steal is nothing but the cover up of a real attempt to steal an election through the courts, after January 6 failed.

It's offensive just how unpatriotic and dangerous it is to democracy.

 

[MIGs Dog]

Given the Alec Baldwin news today I remembered I just watched Aubrey Plaza on the tonight show who mentioned....

Aubrey Plaza Was Proud There Are No Guns in ‘Emily the Criminal’

“I think it actually makes it more anxiety-inducing,” Plaza said of the indie film’s lack of firepower.

www.indiewire.com

It's like profanity with comedians; if you have to use it to be funny, you're not funny. If you need gunplay to make your action movie enjoyable, the story sucks. John Wick is exhibit A.

 

[Coyotedroppings]

Sam Bankman-Fried donated over $40 million in the 2022 election cycle. Where did it go?

Bankman-Fired claims his donations to Republicans were roughly equal to those he made to Democrats. He also said he thinks he was maybe the second or third biggest GOP donor this cycle. Why that wasn't mentioned in the press? Because he himself said they were all dark.

But people only give a crap about what the other party does. If it's theirs it's ok. I'm tired of all the bias, double standards, and zero accountability in politics. Although I'm always skeptical of the media, it goes double for polticians. They're even bigger liars.

Yep, latest on the debt ceiling is a good example.