Arena Editorial - COG are incompetent idiots - Yotes not to blame

[cobra427]

Los Arcos wasn't accessible enough as a location, and it wasn't in a very savory part of South Scottsdale. The area where Tempe Marketplace is now was far more suitable to a large multipurpose entertainment district (as evidenced by the current success of the shopping center and the location of most of the Coyotes' current arena targets). And the idea that the Coyotes arena would have revitalized Los Arcos doesn't wash simply because it's on a different side of town than Glendale.



I agree with all of this... I just wish you would have stopped there and not gone on to say this:



If a fan won't make the trip, does that by definition mean that he's not supporting the team? And I'm pretty certain that the fan base in the West Valley are the ones who still went to the games when only 4,000 people showed up.

At any rate, this team won't attract flies if it sucks on the ice. It's been proven on both sides of town. Anyone who truly believes that a 20-mile change of scenery is going to be the magic wand that fixes this franchise's woes in the twinkling of an eye is fooling themselves.

Los Arcos/Tempe river bottom/Talking stick/Cubs park area, are all way better locations than Glendale. The fan base, are in the east valley, and no they won't make the trip. They live in the east valley because thats where they want to live, nice area, instead of colder climates. They are big on lifestyle choices and driving across town through traffic for an hour isn't one they choose to do.

Moving the team to the east side isn't the end all be all. The team needs to win to draw fans consistently.

 

[Jakey53]

Los Arcos/Tempe river bottom/Talking stick/Cubs park area, are all way better locations than Glendale. The fan base, are in the east valley, and no they won't make the trip. They live in the east valley because thats where they want to live, nice area, instead of colder climates. They are big on lifestyle choices and driving across town through traffic for an hour isn't one they choose to do.

Moving the team to the east side isn't the end all be all. The team needs to win to draw fans consistently.

Correct.

 

[Sinurgy]

One thing not mentioned much in this debacle is the inevitable decline of Westgate which is too bad because it's a nice place.

 

[Matias Maccete]

One thing not mentioned much in this debacle is the inevitable decline of Westgate which is too bad because it's a nice place.

I think maybe in another decade or so Westgate may have been OK by itself, but Iirc like 4 restaurants closed down during the lockout alone. Dave and busters, the movie theater, and the outlets will be fine, and I'm sure some restaurants will be ok, but I can see a lot of places closing down.

 

[Jakey53]

One thing not mentioned much in this debacle is the inevitable decline of Westgate which is too bad because it's a nice place.

I think maybe in another decade or so Westgate may have been OK by itself, but Iirc like 4 restaurants closed down during the lockout alone. Dave and busters, the movie theater, and the outlets will be fine, and I'm sure some restaurants will be ok, but I can see a lot of places closing down.

I'm sure the COG fill find an anchor tenant and all the businesses will be just fine.

 

[Snarky Coyote]

Yeah I have to call BS when people write one sided things about a very complex 2 sided problem. there is plenty of blame to go around. I have watched every season of this horror show and can blame everyone. Its time to move past blame and for the owners and NHL to announce what the hell they are going to do. They have torpedoed STH for next year with the letter to the AZ leg, and we still have no idea when and where we are going to play next year.

Glendale on the other hand deserves the worst possible thing that can happen to them- be stuck living in Glendale. Enjoy your empty NHL arena, your NFL arena that is so soured on the city leadership that they scheduled all of the super bowl events anywhere else, and your baseball stadium that you paid for in full and get NOTHING. I hope that they have to declare bankruptcy and I hope the current Mayor gets thrown out of office once they can see how much the arena is going to cost them to run with no marketable acts willing to come there. Enjoy church revivals, graduations and tractor pulls (but not big name tractor pulls) while you pay 7 million a year to keep the place up and another 13 million to pay your debt.

Plenty of blame to go around but don't dare blame the fans.

 

[XX]

I hope that they have to declare bankruptcy and I hope the current Mayor gets thrown out of office once they can see how much the arena is going to cost them to run with no marketable acts willing to come there.

The arena will do just fine. All the relevant major players bid in an effort to secure the rights to manage it. What they're paying AEG right now is a far cry from the subsidy they gave the Coyotes and is actually sustainable.

Glendale literally gave $50m to the NHL to keep the team in the valley and yet people want the city to suffer. Not hard to see why, given everything that's happened, that nobody really wants to get in bed with IA.

 

[Jakey53]

The arena will do just fine. All the relevant major players bid in an effort to secure the rights to manage it. What they're paying AEG right now is a far cry from the subsidy they gave the Coyotes and is actually sustainable.

Glendale literally gave $50m to the NHL to keep the team in the valley and yet people want the city to suffer. Not hard to see why, given everything that's happened, that nobody really wants to get in bed with IA.

Your right, it's all IA's fault.

 

[RemoAZ]

Your right, it's all IA's fault.

Most are saying mistakes were made on both sides. The worst part is now it's turned into a pissing match where both sides won't go back to the bargaining table to hammer out a fair deal. Ignoring the fact that Glendale paid for the arena and gave the NHL about a third of what the team sold for in ransom money is just being an apologist for the owners. They are asking the east valley for an even bigger subsidy now. Throw in the ******, boring team they've iced for most of their tenure as owners along with zero marketing in the west valley (not to mention what they did with the subsidy they had and screwing up bad enough to let Glendale out of it) and any rational person would see that they are far from blameless in this mess. They current city council nuked the relationship as well. Plenty of blame to go around and as usual, only we, the fans lose.

 

[XX]

They current city council nuked the relationship as well.

The democratically elected new council is not under any obligation to honor the mistakes of a previous council. It's arguably their guiding directive to demonstrate good governance. Terminating that awful lease when given the chance (in the dumbest way possible by IA) is a good but traumatic decision on their part. You can't really blame the city from wanting to get out from under that crap. It sucks for us as fans, but IA shouldn't need a massive subsidy if they are serious about having a team in AZ.

It's not like they've locked the team out completely. They'll let them negotiate with AEG and figure something out. IA just isn't interested because they'd take on all the risk. Their entire purchase was based around the idea that they'd risk a nominal amount of their own money, which would easily be recuperated in a sale to another market if it came to that. They can't hold on indefinitely and the league sure as hell has no interest in holding the bag if it can be avoided.

Barroway seems like an alright dude but he just doesn't have the asset base to really make this work in the way that's needed.

 

[_Del_]

Yeah I have to call BS when people write one sided things about a very complex 2 sided problem. there is plenty of blame to go around. I have watched every season of this horror show and can blame everyone. Its time to move past blame and for the owners and NHL to announce what the hell they are going to do. They have torpedoed STH for next year with the letter to the AZ leg, and we still have no idea when and where we are going to play next year.

Glendale on the other hand deserves the worst possible thing that can happen to them- be stuck living in Glendale. Enjoy your empty NHL arena, your NFL arena that is so soured on the city leadership that they scheduled all of the super bowl events anywhere else, and your baseball stadium that you paid for in full and get NOTHING. I hope that they have to declare bankruptcy and I hope the current Mayor gets thrown out of office once they can see how much the arena is going to cost them to run with no marketable acts willing to come there. Enjoy church revivals, graduations and tractor pulls (but not big name tractor pulls) while you pay 7 million a year to keep the place up and another 13 million to pay your debt.

Plenty of blame to go around but don't dare blame the fans.

Basically where I'm at. Glendale and Ellman basically speculated on the housing boom, and they timed it exceptionally poorly. CoG and the team is paying the price. If the bubble didn't pop, this could be a very different conversation. But both parties are where they are. Neither seems interested in a win-win arrangement, so they're both going to lose.
Actually, IA might lose their NHL ownership aspirations, but they likely retain the AHL team and will be paid for a upwardly mobile hockey franchise. They'll make out like bandits as the initial investors already broke even with Barroway's arrival. I won't feel bad for the most unlikable ownership group in recent memory.
CoG is going to lose either way.
Fans are the ones really paying the price. Again. Still.

 

[Snarky Coyote]

Both sides have messed up horribly.

There will be one or 2 new arenas built in the next 5 years. Glendale is screwed when that happens, and/or when AEG bails with the coyotes.

Its not that nice of a place anymore, and the overall concert industry is flaky as hell. Treat an act badly and you wont get booked for years. Its already happened once to Glendale (through no fault of the COG). the sound system needs a redo, the concourses are narrow which limits income, there is no HD in the arena even the TV's are old picture tube models. 42" tvs are 200.00 at Costco for gods sakes.

Did Glendale give us stupid money to keep the team here? Yes and they shouldn't have. They didn't do it to save hockey they did it to save their ass. that was an old administration and the new one is not friendly to the entertainment business.

I didn't feel the need to go through both sides mistakes. My post sounded more fed up with Glendale than the Yotes and that's not how I feel. I am exhausted with all of them. I just don't think that they are staying, so its not really effective to say if they cant come up with a plan and they leave I wont give them any money.

 

[ck26]

Best outcome I see at this point: a meteor falls on GRA overnight and destroys Westgate; interested parties pocket insurance money and walk away from the whole thing.

 

[Jakey53]

Basically where I'm at. Glendale and Ellman basically speculated on the housing boom, and they timed it exceptionally poorly. CoG and the team is paying the price. If the bubble didn't pop, this could be a very different conversation. But both parties are where they are. Neither seems interested in a win-win arrangement, so they're both going to lose.
Actually, IA might lose their NHL ownership aspirations, but they likely retain the AHL team and will be paid for a upwardly mobile hockey franchise. They'll make out like bandits as the initial investors already broke even with Barroway's arrival. I won't feel bad for the most unlikable ownership group in recent memory.
CoG is going to lose either way.
Fans are the ones really paying the price. Again. Still.

Well, that is part of the problem. Fans didn't pay the price. I know you and others will say we want a better product blah blah blah. Arizona is privileged to have all 4 pro teams so you take the good with the bad. I know there has been much more bad than good, but the good is just around the corner. Maybe if the fans would show up next year where we can get around 16k per night showing the rest of the world that we do care instead of sitting at home watching on TV and point fingers at everyone except yourself. Even if you can't afford season tickets, buy individual tickets, take a friend and go to 5-10 games a year. Going to a game is a blast. This team today with all it's prospects is in the best shape it has ever being in, most of the kids are progressing very nicely.

 

[_Del_]

Maybe if the fans would show up next year

I'd put the odds at over 80% that the team will play in front of sold out crowds at home. It just won't be here.

Doesn't matter if the team sold out every game when ownership doesn't have a dime to spare and continuosly squanders what little it does have. Certainly didn't spend anything on payroll or marketing which would be the two pillars underpinning a successful renaissance for a team playing out in bumfark Glendale struggling with attendance.

They've burnt every bridge they have come across. When ASU dropped them flat on their ass unequivocally from their latest "done deal", Uncle Gary's first response to IA was "What did you do now?" Tells you every thing you need to know about the odds of success, and their ability to build and nourish business partnerships lasting longer than "two weeks."

Name one thing they have touched that wasn't an abject failure. Go.

 

[ClassLessCoyote]

This pointing fingers at others doesn't make sense as the past can't be changed. Either the Coyotes are in the East Valley at this point or the team is gone. Glad to see this fake news article ripped apart though.