Are you happy with the job Kyle Dubas has done since taking over as GM?

[ViewsFromThe6ix]

you actually believe Dubas is the best GM in the league ? lol , ok then

There isn't anyone I could say I would trade Dubas for with 100% certainty.

 

[hotpaws]

Ceci/Zaitsev trade should bump Dubas from a B to an A-. getting out of that zaitsev deal was a miracle.

why was it a miracle ? Z is a decent D who's overpaid by about .500k to 1m

what was a miracle was Lou dumping Phaneuf without retention or any dumps that were longer than 1yr , especially considering there's still 2 teams still paying him not to play for them

 

[hotpaws]

There isn't anyone I could say I would trade Dubas for with 100% certainty.

which means you believe he's as good as any GM in the league

 

[43Kadri43]

why was it a miracle ? Z is a decent D who's overpaid by about .500k to 1m

what was a miracle was Lou dumping Phaneuf without retention or any dumps that were longer than 1yr , especially considering there's still 2 teams still paying him not to play for them

Zaitsev is absolutely terrible. I mean, truly, truly awful; he’s one of the worst defensemen in the league.

 

[hotpaws]

Zaitsev is absolutely terrible. I mean, truly, truly awful; he’s one of the worst defensemen in the league.

sure he's one of the worst players in the history of the game now since he's a Senator and we need to pimp the Dube but when he was a Leaf he was a decent (not above avg or good) second pair D imo

 

[43Kadri43]

sure he's one of the worst players in the history of the game now since he's a Senator and we need to pimp the Dube but when he was a Leaf he was a decent (not above avg or good) second pair D imo

No, when he was a Leaf he was terrible, and one of the worst defensemen in the NHL.

 

[hotpaws]

No, when he was a Leaf he was terrible, and one of the worst defensemen in the NHL.

I'm guessing you don't watch any other teams if you actually believe this so we'll agree to disagree and move on .

 

[Stamkos4life]

Gms are judged based on their teams performance.

We have 2 straight years of regression with dubas as gm that even shanahan admitted to.

I am genuinely suprised so many leaf fans are satisfied with sub par results especially considering we were on such an upward trajectory with our former gm.

We went from missing the playoffs 11 out of 12 seasons to making the 1st round twice in a row for the first time since 02-03.

I think he gets 1 more year. If we cant even make the 1st round for the 2nd time in a row, he should be gone.

 

[Kurtz]

Gms are judged based on their teams performance.

We have 2 straight years of regression with dubas as gm that even shanahan admitted to.

I am genuinely suprised so many leaf fans are satisfied with sub par results especially considering we were on such an upward trajectory with our former gm.

We went from missing the playoffs 11 out of 12 seasons to making the 1st round twice in a row for the first time since 02-03.

I think he gets 1 more year. If we cant even make the 1st round for the 2nd time in a row, he should be gone.

This is well put. No doubt Kyle has made some very strong moves and some very poor ones, but if we move from the micro view to the macro - every year since Kyle became the GM we've produced worse and worse results on the ice, our cap situation has gotten worse and worse, and our farm has gotten worse and worse.

He's not a lost cause and can absolutely redeem himself this off-season, which promises to have tons of turnover across the league. But a mediocre off-season punctuated by another first-round exit, and I don't see why he should be kept around.

 

[Kurtz]

This is all fair, and at the end of the day is there one GM you'd be 100% confident in trading Dubas for? For me, there's nobody that I can say with absolute certainty is better than Dubas.

Just in our division, I think you have to go with Sweeney and Yzerman/Brisebois, no?

Brisebois this past year did what we need(ed) Dubas to do - sign his star (Point) to a manageable, friendly contract and improve team toughness/grit to better compete in the playoffs.

 

[43Kadri43]

I'm guessing you don't watch any other teams if you actually believe this so we'll agree to disagree and move on .

Oh, I watch far more hockey than you do kid. I’m also intelligent enough to recognize my own cognitive biases; that’s where the dichotomy in our opinions are formed. You’re sure that what you’re seeing is truth, but it’s not.

 

[Havoc]

There isn't anyone I could say I would trade Dubas for with 100% certainty.

If the GM's had to go 1 on 1 with each other i.e- not allowed any consultations with their staff and team, I am convinced Dubas would smoke majority of them.

 

[hotpaws]

Oh, I watch far more hockey than you do kid. I’m also intelligent enough to recognize my own cognitive biases; that’s where the dichotomy in our opinions are formed. You’re sure that what you’re seeing is truth, but it’s not.

i love being called "kid" by someone probably 20/30 years younger than me , i'm thinking your a 3rd year uni student ?

but like i said , we'll agree to disagree and move on

 

[hotpaws]

If the GM's had to go 1 on 1 with each other i.e- not allowed any consultations with their staff and team, I am convinced Dubas would smoke majority of them.

based on what exactly ?

 

[cesareborgia]

The Kadri deal was short sighted and horrendous. But the main problem is his philosophy and understanding of the game is flawed.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

I've liked most of his work and I'm comfortable with him as GM.

Starting with the negatives...

I feel he got walked all over by Marner and that was his biggest loss. Even more so with the stagnant cap due to COVID-19. Plus, the fact his contract looks like an overpay despite being on pace for 90+ points says it all.

Another minor loss was not signing Matthews to 8 years. I say minor cause it also seems like Matthews wanted quite a fair bit of change for those extra years.

The Kadri trade was the right idea (a lot of people wanted it) but it didn't work out. Barrie was still a serious upgrade on paper but Babs drained him of his confidence and that was the end of that. He was fighting an uphill battle ever since.

I'm not a fan of using hindsight, which is what happens when criticizing the Barrie deal. When judging any GM, it should be done based on the information he had at the time. So, it's a negative but a minor one.

Moving onto the positives...

The best part has been his work in the draft. Absolute class. Not sure how much credit you want to give him or the scouts, but he's definitely listening to them.

He's also a good communicator with the players and they like him, so that's a plus. These things help when bringing in UFAs, college, and foreign players. We've seen this with the signings of Mikheyev, Barabanov, and Lehtonen.

He's also made some excellent trades looking past the Kadri one - Muzzin, Zaitsev, Campbell, and Kapanen. Lots of good asset management there.

 

[Dekes For Days]

if we move from the micro view to the macro - every year since Kyle became the GM we've produced worse and worse results on the ice, our cap situation has gotten worse and worse, and our farm has gotten worse and worse.

This is completely wrong.

We have not produced worse results every year. 2018-2019 was our best year on the ice, and even 2019-2020 was better than 2017-2018 in pretty much everything except goaltending.

Our cap situation has not gotten worse. It has gotten better. We used to have anchor contracts. We now only have contracts with positive value. Being a cap team was an inevitability when the ELCs ran out.

Our farm system has not gotten worse. Our prospects were completely depleted after 2017-2018, and our drafting in the few years before was bad. Dubas has not only hit home runs on both his top picks (Sandin, Robertson), but he has gotten some prospects that are developing really well lower in the draft, and has supplemented it with quality European free agents. Our farm system is way better off right now.

 

[LeafGrief]

Indifferent

Excellent drafting, the trades are reasonable and at least I can understand the thinking behind the Kadri trade. Bad contracts for our RFA's.

If we had won a round or two of playoffs, I'd love the guy. All of the moves make sense to me when I look at how he's trying to build a team. It's not perfect, but I don't expect a GM to have the exact same vision as I do lol. But this is very much a results-oriented job that he's in. The Kadri trade blew up, the RFA's are eating our cap, we haven't won in the playoffs (or play in FML), the strong drafts haven't actually translated into NHL difference-makers yet. The results just aren't there, so it's hard to actually be happy with the job he's doing, even though I tend to like the thought processes.

And because it's a results oriented job, he does get credit for Tavares in my book.

 

[Stamkos4life]

If the GM's had to go 1 on 1 with each other i.e- not allowed any consultations with their staff and team, I am convinced Dubas would smoke majority of them.

Based on 2 years of regression with dubas as gm?

You'd be wrong.

 

[stopclickbait]

Oh, I watch far more hockey than you do kid. I’m also intelligent enough to recognize my own cognitive biases; that’s where the dichotomy in our opinions are formed. You’re sure that what you’re seeing is truth, but it’s not.

I’ve never seen anyone ever praise Zaitsev but it’s pretty hilarious the lengths some kids will go.

also big ups to you mentioning cognitive biases I think I swear most people have no idea what that means.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Dubas has been hit and miss.

For every good good move, Tavares, Muzzin, Spezza, Ennis, drafting Sandin and Robertson. The Campbell trade the contracts of Kapanen and Johnsson.

There is a bad move and when it's bad it's REALLY f***ing bad, Kadri trade, waiving Mac, promoting Sparks, wasting an asset on Hutch, allowing Sparks and Hutch the piss away points for nearly a year and a half before actually DOING something about it. Not trying hard enough to sign Nylander before December, he actually admitted to that he didn't try., not giving Matthews and Marner Max term, thus putting himself on a clock he didn't need to put himself on and making patience impossible

There is more on both sides but I don't want to be here all day.

It's time we find out if he's the guy or not.

He CAN NOT f*** up this off season like he did last off season.

It's time to get it done or get out.

 

[Cams]

Isn't there another thread that had the same kind of poll?

Kind of, but I have to say, I was expecting one of the voting options to be "No, this team has regressed to the point of embarrassment that they are giving away paper back at the old MLG for Leafs fans"

 

[Dekes For Days]

wasting an asset on Hutch

We traded a 5th round pick for Hutchinson, and got a player worth more than a 5th back when we traded him away.

Not trying hard enough to sign Nylander before December, he actually admitted to that he didn't try.

He did not say that.

not giving Matthews and Marner Max term

Giving Matthews/Marner max term wasn't possible if we were going to keep everyone. The terms they got are quite common for that quality of player.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

We traded a 5th round pick for Hutchinson, and got a player worth more than a 5th back when we traded him away.

He did not say that.

Giving Matthews/Marner max term wasn't possible if we were going to keep everyone. The terms they got are actually quite common for that quality of player.

why am I not suprised you are sticking up for Dubas, when are you going to look at his track record and realize about half of it is shit?

Stop making excuses and accept the reality of the situation.

 

[ULF_55]

This is well put. No doubt Kyle has made some very strong moves and some very poor ones, but if we move from the micro view to the macro - every year since Kyle became the GM we've produced worse and worse results on the ice, our cap situation has gotten worse and worse, and our farm has gotten worse and worse.

He's not a lost cause and can absolutely redeem himself this off-season, which promises to have tons of turnover across the league. But a mediocre off-season punctuated by another first-round exit, and I don't see why he should be kept around.

Certainly, we should expect improvements.
Fans should demand improvements, even if they don't get to go to the games. sigh

But at that we should see some movement in the core players. If Matthews, marner and Nylander, along with Tavares can't carry the team to improvement (with their line-mates) one of them has to go. Being pretty, or stylish, or a point producer only entertains, and while that is definitely part of the business, at some point team results matter.

If Dubas' team isn't good enough, then either he has to change his team, or Shanahan has to make moves.

In closing, David Poile ... how long of a leash does he have? Maybe in some markets being a a good team is enough?