Speculation: Are the Oilers tough enough?

[Bryanbryoil]

OMG!!! I totally agree. Why can nobody jump on board with the word 'enforcer'

Please @Bryanbryoil give us a proper definition of 'enforcer' just so we know what it actually is.

I'd consider a guy like Reaves an enforcer, someone whose biggest attributes are their pugilistic skills and physicality. Then you have functional toughness, guys like Nurse, Crouse, Kassian, Wilson, Lucic, Lowry, etc. Guys that can drop the gloves and play physically, but can also play a regular shift above the 4th line.

 

[Shaquille Oatmeal]

I'd consider a guy like Reaves an enforcer, someone whose biggest attributes are their pugilistic skills and physicality. Then you have functional toughness, guys like Nurse, Crouse, Kassian, Wilson, Lucic, Lowry, etc. Guys that can drop the gloves and play physically, but can also play a regular shift above the 4th line.

Perfect, thanks. Nurse, Kassian, Khaira, Maroon type players.

Enforcers. Skilled but willing to fight.

Edit: after I re-read your post you described Reaves as an enforcer. The rest of them were functionally tough.

Once again, I'm wrong. I give up. At least it's game day.

 

[Arpeggio]

I feel like the Oilers handle themselves fine in tough games. Draisaitl can dish it, McDavid levels guys fairly regularly, and Kassian has quite a few big hits this year too (I'm not sure what some of you are watching, I feel like this is the most effective physical game Kassian has played in years). The Oilers are a fairly big team, I don't think they ever get intimidated.

If someone decides to take out McDavid's knees, well, unfortunately an enforcer isn't going to prevent that. Enforcers are completely reactionary. I think having a big team can still be a valuable trait, and if you can really play your opponent physically that can take a toll, but over the last several years (including this one), I feel like the Oilers have been able to handle those games quite well. Plus when you have a 40% PP that keeps things in check too.

So I guess my opinion is that this is a non-issue.

 

[Fourier]

The point is you can exploit a player like Gudbranson 5 times a game but it only takes him 2 seconds to run McDrai through the boards and the rest of our team and the refs will just stand around and watch.

I understand the point. I like hard hitting hockey and guys with grit. But what you describe can happen with any player at any time. Gudbranson is not Scott Stevens. He's really no more likely to injure McDavid than anyone else in the league. Nor is there anything you can really do about it to prevent it from happening. This is not the 80's where players feared guys like Semenko.

 

[Spawn]

I understand the point. I like hard hitting hockey and guys with grit. But what you describe can happen with any player at any time. Gudbranson is not Scott Stevens. He's really no more likely to injure McDavid than anyone else in the league. Nor is there anything you can really do about it to prevent it from happening. This is not the 80's where players feared guys like Semenko.

Yep. The notion that anyone is going to avoid a big check because of retribution is outdated and just not a factor in todays NHL. If anything, the biggest deterrent now is that players don’t want to get suspended. That, and now that we know the long term ramifications of things like concussions, players are probably a little more hesitant about blowing some guy up and watching them get stretchered out.

 

[tardigrade81]

Tell me this doesn't make you feel good when they stick up for eachother.

View attachment 485812

Lol I love this.

 

[Forgot About Drai]

No we dont need enforcers.

Players who can play and mix it up, sure. But we dont need enforcers anymore.

 

[Oilers]

I don’t think we need enforcers, we just need guys that can stand up for a teammate and who aren’t a liability when they are on the ice.

Nurse, Kassian, Foegele, Benson to some degree and even Drats have done a pretty good job.

 

[brentashton]

Kassian is an enforcer? News to me.

We do need grit that Kassian, Foegele, Hyman and even Yama bring up front and need more of it.

This^. We could certainly use more team grit and determination though. Hyman and Foegle were good moves in that direction but as far as an enforcer, I don’t think that’s something to be persued. Todays NHL doesn’t value a player that is a true enforcer, sitting on the bench as a nuclear deterrent, only playing 4 minutes a game. Overall grit and toughness, absolutely.

 

[Dan Kelly]

Perfect, thanks. Nurse, Kassian, Khaira, Maroon type players.

still pizzed all these years later that we traded a pretty productive Maroon away !!

 

[Trafalgar Sadge Law]

Most people think of guys like Laraque and Steve MacIntyre when you say enforcer.

If you mean guys that are physical and that will fight, I'd say it wouldn't hurt to have a few more guys that can do that. They need to be able to play hockey though.

I agree with the premise of your post but can we not put big Georges in the same category as Steve cokemachintyre? Laraque could play, forechecked like his life depended on it and had surprisingly good hands that would lead to around 20 points every year. Steve McIntyre's has never even had a 5 point year in the ECHL and AHL.

 

[xoczar99ox]

I understand the point. I like hard hitting hockey and guys with grit. But what you describe can happen with any player at any time. Gudbranson is not Scott Stevens. He's really no more likely to injure McDavid than anyone else in the league. Nor is there anything you can really do about it to prevent it from happening. This is not the 80's where players feared guys like Semenko.

I get it I’m not suggesting a meat head on the team. But when the Marshessaults of the world start popping McDavid we need a guy that isn’t even…makes that players that aren’t even going to think twice about destroying him immediately. The douche bags will catch on pretty quick and shit like that will stop or at least be minimized.

 

[bone]

I agree with the premise of your post but can we not put big Georges in the same category as Steve cokemachintyre? Laraque could play, forechecked like his life depended on it and had surprisingly good hands that would lead to around 20 points every year. Steve McIntyre's has never even had a 5 point year in the ECHL and AHL.

Agreed. Anyone who's acheived a hat trick in an NHL game likely can play. Heck, he even delivered a 13 goal, 29 point season playing less than 10 minutes a game.

McIntyre had no business other than punching people and it shows in his career average time on ice total (3:26 per game)

 

[Eye of Ra]

Adam Larsson was physical and mean.

Maybe someone like Lagesson can take that role.

 

[backhandsauce]

Flames have Gudbranson, Zadorov, Lucic, Ritchie and Tkachuk to run around.

We need to keep Kassian.

 

[Fourier]

I get it I’m not suggesting a meat head on the team. But when the Marshessaults of the world start popping McDavid we need a guy that isn’t even…makes that players that aren’t even going to think twice about destroying him immediately. The douche bags will catch on pretty quick and shit like that will stop or at least be minimized.

I wish it worked that way but it no longer does. Take a look at the guys who draw lots of penalties. You will see exactly that sort of player. Teams will be penalized for retaliation which just feeds the rats further. As I said previously, this is no longer the 80's. No one is going to destroy anyone since it would mean a massive suspension. Unfortunately, there is very little you can do in terms of accountability beyond play hard and make them pay if they do take penalties. I am not happy about this, but it is the way it is in today's NHL.

 

[bone]

I get it I’m not suggesting a meat head on the team. But when the Marshessaults of the world start popping McDavid we need a guy that isn’t even…makes that players that aren’t even going to think twice about destroying him immediately. The douche bags will catch on pretty quick and shit like that will stop or at least be minimized.

I'm not sure what you'd expect as a response on the Marchessault hit. A beast isn't going to go pick a fight with a 5'9" skill player because of a hard play on McDavid . If one did, Reeves is then head hunting McDavid with ill intent. The response was fine as McDavid himself started taking some liberties with him, and the refs let it go as it was two skill players battling each other.

 

[xoczar99ox]

I wish it worked that way but it no longer does. Take a look at the guys who draw lots of penalties. You will see exactly that sort of player. Teams will be penalized for retaliation which just feeds the rats further. As I said previously, this is no longer the 80's. No one is going to destroy anyone since it would mean a massive suspension. Unfortunately, there is very little you can do in terms of accountability beyond play hard and make them pay if they do take penalties. I am not happy about this, but it is the way it is in today's NHL.

Yah well…I don’t like you anymore!

 

[xoczar99ox]

I'm not sure what you'd expect as a response on the Marchessault hit. A beast isn't going to go pick a fight with a 5'9" skill player because of a hard play on McDavid. If one did, Reeves is then head hunting McDavid. The response was fine as McDavid himself started taking some liberties with him, and the refs let it go as it was two skill players battling each other.

No. But someone has to go head hunting back if they are going too.

 

[bone]

No. But someone has to go head hunting back if they are going too.

Honestly, what does that accomplish. When skill players make hard plays on skill players, that's good hockey. Having a goon out there head hunting at the first sign of any rough play just drags the game into stupidity. The Oilers handled Marchessault perfectly on that one in my opinion.

McDavid and Draisaitl are big enough boys to take care of the Marchessaults of the world. Now if it was Reeves running wild on McDavid, my opinion would maybe be different.

 

[Little Fury]

Flames have Gudbranson, Zadorov, Lucic, Ritchie and Tkachuk to run around.

We need to keep Kassian.

Kassian doesn't so shit.

 

[Little Fury]

I'm not sure what you'd expect as a response on the Marchessault hit. A beast isn't going to go pick a fight with a 5'9" skill player because of a hard play on McDavid . If one did, Reeves is then head hunting McDavid with ill intent. The response was fine as McDavid himself started taking some liberties with him, and the refs let it go as it was two skill players battling each other.

Reaves isn't on the Golden Knights anymore.

 

[Jumptheshark]

 

[nexttothemoon]

Slightly tangential but interesting stat I just looked up... Oilers lead the NHL in game misconducts over the past 3 seasons with 8.

3 teams have had zero over the past 3 years... Blues/Hurricanes/Panthers.


Team stats:

Correlation of points in the standings to # of major penalties over the past 3 seasons: .025
Correlation of points in the standings to # of penalty minutes taken over the past 3 seasons: .133
Correlation of points in the standings to penalties drawn/60: .317
Correlation of points in the standings to penalties taken/60: .184


Basically as far as teams go... it's better to be the penalty drawing team than the penalty taking team (which might seem obvious but the stats actually back that up as well).

It is interesting though that both the higher penalty drawing teams AND the higher penalty taking teams do better in the standings (of course the correlation levels are pretty low).

One negative correlation stat:

Correlation of points in the standings to # of bench penalties over the past 3 seasons: -.111

So teams that take more bench penalties tend to do slightly worse... maybe a reflection of sloppy coaching there as well.

 

[OfCorsiDid]

Enforcers? In this year of our lord 2021?

No thank you.

We already have a bottom 6 that can’t score, we don’t need to pile on by adding some meatheads.