Speculation: Are The Canucks For Real This Time?

Are the Canucks for real this time?

  • Yes

  • No


Results are only viewable after voting.

Diversification

Registered User
Jun 21, 2019
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I've held off on responding because it seems like wishcasting. Under the prior 2 coaches, we have suffered defensively in different ways:

1) Green's teams were constantly hemmed in their own zone and the players would collapse towards the net to block shots and hopefully chip it forwards for an odd man rush going the other way. There was little to no puck support and defensive zone exits were primarily plays off the glass and into the NZ. What little success we had was due to outstanding goaltending and some game breaking skill upfront.

2) Bourdreau deployed a puck pressure system that caused turn overs but also led to constant defensive breakdowns as players would be out of position and flat footed for chances going the other way.

So, in 2 different ways, the Canucks managed to be terrible defensively. In retrospect, it was not sustainable over the course of a season.

With Tocchet, we see a more conservative approach than Boudreau's but also an emphasis on short passes to facilitate possession out of our own zone. That, coupled with sufficient run support, have been the main drivers of the strong play recently.

The key question is whether this version of the Canucks is sustainable?

I'm leaning towards yes because it's not something that relies on high variance events like odd man scoring chances and superhuman goaltending.

If forwards and D fastidiously provide high percentage passing options in their own end, most of the time that means we can defuse high danger chances against and sustained pressure from the opposing team. You can run that night in and night out provided the players buy in and hold each other accountable. You supplement that with sufficient goal scoring (which I think we have), that's the recipe for consistently good hockey. Not contender-level, but perhaps comfortably in a playoff position.

TLDR: Yes, they're looking like they could actually be for real provided your definition of 'for real' excludes viably contending for the Cup.
 

Ninjadude

Registered User
Oct 25, 2018
358
268
Don’t we ask this question every year, especially after the late season winning streaks we get, year after year?

The cast might be slightly different, but we have seen this movie before.
 
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Josepho

i want the bartkowski thread back
Jan 1, 2015
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Don’t we ask this question every year, especially after the late season winning streaks we get, year after year?

The cast might be slightly different, but we have seen this movie before.
There are definitely concerns with using any small sample size as a basis for the next season but this has literally happened one time previously, not "year after year".

When I have time I'll try to dig up data to see how much late-season stretches impact the next season.
 
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tradervik

Hear no evil, see no evil, complain about it
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Jun 25, 2007
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When you have almost no chance of making the playoffs and your opponents are starting their backups, you are in garbage time.
 

ProstheticConscience

Check dein Limit
Apr 30, 2010
18,459
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Canuck Nation
its-groundhog-day-again-reporting.gif


Always fun to see people thinking garbage time winning streaks will translate to next season.
 

CpatainCanuck

Registered User
Sep 18, 2008
6,738
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I think we all knew the Canucks could be a mediocre team when healthy. They're healthy, and on a bit of a hot streak...that's about all there is to say. Maybe they sneak into playoffs with a similar roster next year if things go right?
 

racerjoe

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
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Vancouver
I think we all knew the Canucks could be a mediocre team when healthy. They're healthy, and on a bit of a hot streak...that's about all there is to say. Maybe they sneak into playoffs with a similar roster next year if things go right?

Something similar to this gets said a lot, and is probably true of where this team is. I don't think there is anything wrong with this opinion.

The problem is you get a lot of posters trying to claim this team is an absolute failure and a bottom of the league team, and that just isn't true. Its why the discourse of sell everything and start from scratch rebuild is a terrible tank.

You have a middle of the pack team, with 2 superstar talents playing the most important positions, a 35 goal scorer, a top 10 scorer, and a top 7 goalie. That is a lot to build around.
 

credulous

Registered User
Nov 18, 2021
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Something similar to this gets said a lot, and is probably true of where this team is. I don't think there is anything wrong with this opinion.

The problem is you get a lot of posters trying to claim this team is an absolute failure and a bottom of the league team, and that just isn't true. Its why the discourse of sell everything and start from scratch rebuild is a terrible tank.

You have a middle of the pack team, with 2 superstar talents playing the most important positions, a 35 goal scorer, a top 10 scorer, and a top 7 goalie. That is a lot to build around.

there's a big difference between thinking this team has peaked as currently assembled and thinking this team is an 'absolute failure and a bottom of the league team'. i'm one of the biggest haters of this team's chances going forward and even i think they're probably like an 80-90 point team next season

there's also a huge difference between thinking this has the potential be a competitive team and thinking they need to go all in to ensure they're a competitive team

there's zero nuance possible around here sometimes. people just shout into the void at strawmen constantly. it's very frustrating
 

Cancuks

Former Exalted Ruler
Jan 13, 2014
3,881
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It'll be the same situation as last year and other previous years. Go into the offseason with huge expectations because of the annual end of season run and we'll be out of it by Christmas before we get red hot and miss out on another top 10 pick next season. Nothing will change until we blow up the roster and trade away players that cannot perform when the season means something. The only players I keep are Pettersson and Hughes.
 

Russian_fanatic

Registered User
Jan 19, 2004
7,707
1,769
The season was lost LONG ago. This team has so many holes its not even funny.

Not only do we miss out on a top 10 pick, but we also miss out on the playoffs.
 

racerjoe

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
12,182
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Vancouver
there's a big difference between thinking this team has peaked as currently assembled and thinking this team is an 'absolute failure and a bottom of the league team'. i'm one of the biggest haters of this team's chances going forward and even i think they're probably like an 80-90 point team next season

there's also a huge difference between thinking this has the potential be a competitive team and thinking they need to go all in to ensure they're a competitive team

there's zero nuance possible around here sometimes. people just shout into the void at strawmen constantly. it's very frustrating

Kind of funny, because you were not one of the people I was talking about, I don't think most of your takes are unreasonable. To your end point that is where the nuance should be. We can disagree, if we also can agree on where the nuance is.

What I find weird is how anyone thinks they know what this team will be next year. We are not even in April, and have no idea what the team will look like yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up anywhere at this point again depending on what happens.

Its Hyperbolic at this point to be either over optimistic or pessimistic.
 

Quinntessential

Registered User
Mar 25, 2013
400
580
Individually I think they are for real. Petey is for real, Quinn is for real, JT, Kuz, Demko, etc. I think all of our important players are the real deal. The question is whether they can play like a team. That we will have to wait and see.
 

credulous

Registered User
Nov 18, 2021
3,299
4,438
Kind of funny, because you were not one of the people I was talking about, I don't think most of your takes are unreasonable. To your end point that is where the nuance should be. We can disagree, if we also can agree on where the nuance is.

What I find weird is how anyone thinks they know what this team will be next year. We are not even in April, and have no idea what the team will look like yet. I wouldn't be surprised if they end up anywhere at this point again depending on what happens.

Its Hyperbolic at this point to be either over optimistic or pessimistic.

why can't you just let people have their takes if you think the future is unknowable? i have no problem with people with whom i disagree making arguments for their perspective. what's infuriating is being told over and over that i can't see the future. i know i can't see the future. i can still speculate

i don't want to pick on you so this will be the last i ever respond to this but if you can't engage with someone's opinion (informed or otherwise) you should just skip over their post and move on. you don't need to reply to tell them they could be wrong. they probably know that
 

LordBacon

CEO of sh*tposting
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Oct 31, 2017
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If we didnt have OEL Poolman Pearson Myers and their almost 20m under contract next year things would be pretty good. f*** Jim Benning and Aquilini for handcuffing the team
Aqualini be like : I dont get it I spent to the cap shouldnt my team be elite :huh:
 

racerjoe

Registered User
Jun 3, 2012
12,182
5,878
Vancouver
why can't you just let people have their takes if you think the future is unknowable? i have no problem with people with whom i disagree making arguments for their perspective. what's infuriating is being told over and over that i can't see the future. i know i can't see the future. i can still speculate

i don't want to pick on you so this will be the last i ever respond to this but if you can't engage with someone's opinion (informed or otherwise) you should just skip over their post and move on. you don't need to reply to tell them they could be wrong. they probably know that

Pick on me... thats a laugh and a half.

Its not perspective again its reality. These posters may as well be saying we should trade Boeser for McDavid. Yeah of course that would be great, but lets live in reality.

I generally don't have a problem with the people who think we should rebuild. Its why I will reply to some of them. I have a problem when they (or anyone else on a different point) starts talking about things that just are not possible.
 

CanucksMJL

Context apologist.
Jul 6, 2009
728
804
I was going to make a huge post last night about how team success is tied directly to organizational culture. I had to stop when I realized I was writing a novel.
TLDR:
Good culture = Players grow and thrive.
Bad culture = Players wither and stagnate.

The Canucks have made and continue to make changes that I believe were made to foster a vastly improved culture. There is evidence that these changes are bearing fruit.

That is why I voted yes.
 
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DarrenX

Registered User
Apr 15, 2014
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634
I want to believe.... but the problem, of course, is that we are well and truly into garbage time now. We're beating teams left and right, but hardly any team has anything to play for. There's no "playoff chase" to speak of, unless the Jets/Pens/Islanders absolutely implode they're going to be in, and with the possible exception of Boston there's no particular matchup that any playoff team wants to avoid.
 

Diversification

Registered User
Jun 21, 2019
3,001
3,724
I want to believe.... but the problem, of course, is that we are well and truly into garbage time now. We're beating teams left and right, but hardly any team has anything to play for. There's no "playoff chase" to speak of, unless the Jets/Pens/Islanders absolutely implode they're going to be in, and with the possible exception of Boston there's no particular matchup that any playoff team wants to avoid.
We played Dallas in their rink with playoff seeding at stakes. What’s more, they lose and we, a lowly bottom feeder, complete the season sweep. With their loss, Dallas fell to second in the Central, overtaken by Minnesota.
 
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DarrenX

Registered User
Apr 15, 2014
627
634
We played Dallas in their rink with playoff seeding at stakes. What’s more, they lose and we, a lowly bottom feeder, complete the season sweep. With their loss, Dallas fell to second in the Central, overtaken by Minnesota.
So... they're now on track to play 92 point Colorado, vs 88 point Seattle. (and who knows, that could change again tomorrow.)

Does it really matter that much?
 

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