Are Sweeping Changes Coming ?

[opendoor]

Yeah, I think seeing how little effect adding a point per game rookie to the team had on the standings is probably making some people realize just how far off the team is. You'd think people would've looked at the Oilers and how bad they can be while having McDavid and Draisaitl, but I guess not. Many Canuck fans deluded themselves into thinking that the team is just a couple of pieces away from being a contender, but now that's pretty obviously not true.

 

[CpatainCanuck]

Yeah, I think seeing how little effect adding a point per game rookie to the team had on the standings is probably making some people realize just how far off the team is. You'd think people would've looked at the Oilers and how bad they can be while having McDavid and Draisaitl, but I guess not. Many Canuck fans deluded themselves into thinking that the team is just a couple of pieces away from being a contender, but now that's pretty obviously not true.

The canucks added Pettersson but subtracted the Sedins. At the beginning of the season nobody thought they were going to be a good team.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

The canucks added Pettersson but subtracted the Sedins. At the beginning of the season nobody thought they were going to be a good team.

Correct,..in fact there's a clause in EP's contract that if he did not make the Canucks he would go back and play pro hockey in Sweden for another year...They were a consensus bottom of the league team, with consensus bottom of the league goaltending.

Ranking all 31 NHL teams by their goalie tandems

You could almost say that Benning and Aqualini were on team tank from the outset....There were very low expectations (which got raised as the season went on)

 

[I in the Eye]

There were very low expectations (which got raised as the season went on)

... and they didn't do enough to effectively manage these expectations. They needed to make it clear that the excitement was nice, but needed to be put into perspective. Of course, doing so would be admitting that meaningful progress hasn't been made. Also, chances are they believed and got consumed with the hype themselves... but both Benning and aqualinni have said that playoffs would be nice, but not the expectation.

If the Canucks made the playoffs this year, I think next year would have been disastrous for them. Just being closer for longer I think has done harm. The same people who blindly follow them are at risk to blindly go against them. They need to be controlled and directed where to go with sheep dogs.

 

[ChilliBilly]

We lost the Sedins, gained EP ... about even.

EP alone is enough to carry a team with a decent line up.

I predict playoffs next year if Tryamkin returns. If not, the year after.

We need a decent year from our last 6 1st draft picks. Juolevi Virtanen EP hughes Boeser and Horvat.

 

[RandV]

Which of Edler, Tanev, Stetcher, or Hutton gets bumped to the third pairing to make way for this new top-4 defender?

On a team with a top defense Hutton is easily a 4/5 guy and Stecher a 5/6. This is like a day 1 Benning fallacy when he ditched Garrison and the defense was made by fans that you can't be paying your #5 guy almost $5M. Problem is someone in your top 4 is inevitably going to be injured for a good part of the season so everyone below gets bumped up, so it's a good use of cap space to have this redundancy. But after creating the hole 5 years later Benning has still never filled the hole and just stuck with the same failing structure every year.

Looking at the past 3 management teams these were the best bluelines they put forward:

Burke:
Ohlund-Salo
Jovo-Sopel
Baron-Malik
Allen, Baumgartner

Nonis:
Ohlund-Salo
Mitchell-Bieksa
Krajicek-Sopel
Edler, Fitzpatrick

Gillis
Edler-Ehrhoff
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Ballard-Salo
Alberts, Rome, Tanev

Hutton and Stecher are good players for us to have but they're more a Brent Sopel class of dman. There should be one more legit top 4 guy ahead of them, and a promising kid behind them (which there is with Hughes). And since Edler/Tanev are so often injured one of them should be replaced with a more durable top 4.

"Sweeping" may be too harsh a word but yes changes are obviously needed on the blueline. And While I was pessimistic Benning would be kept around for another year earlier in the season I'm really hoping that the momentum is picking up to give him the boot now.

 

[opendoor]

The canucks added Pettersson but subtracted the Sedins. At the beginning of the season nobody thought they were going to be a good team.

Nobody thought they'd be a good team because they didn't expect Pettersson to score at an 85-90 point pace as a rookie. Or for Markstrom to play like a Vezina candidate for a good chunk of the season. Or for Hutton and Stecher to rebound like they did.

But all of that happened (as well as Horvat and Boeser maintaining their scoring paces from last season) and the team is still one of the worst in the league because the bottom 9 forwards and the defense are absolute junk for the most part.

The team still needs its entire defense and most of its forward group completely rebuilt, yet they have pretty much the entire team under contract for next season and not a lot coming down the pipe to fix it.

 

[moog35]

Francesco Aquillini cannot be a happy man right now. Right when his team was in the thick of the playoff race for the entirety of the season I am sure he was thrilled with the progress of this team and overachieving despite the fact the West is a week division , the incredible and magical rookie season from Pettersson , Boeser , Horvat and Virtanen developing and improving there play , the team showing the competitive edge etc .

But here we are on March 4th and we are back to square one from the previous seasons disscussing the exact same things. The defence is a mess, we have no organizational depth to overcome injuries , no structure , to many turnovers , unintelligent coaching decisions and showing no emotion , pride or fight .

This team has totally quit on Travis Green. The only reason we are in games , the only reason we escaped Colorado with a point is because of one player and one player only . Jakob Markstrom. He has been bailing this team out left right and centre. We don’t have a system , we have no game plan , we have no secondary scoring , no reliable defence outside of Hutton and Stetcher currently and probably for the remainder of the season and the list goes on and on .

We just traded Dahlen who was suppose to be a huge part of the teams future and one year after he wins MVP of The 2nd Division in Sweden he’s traded and played nowhere close to his potential, Lind and Gradjovich both only have 2 goals this season , Palmu has fled NA and on and on. That falls on Benning for failing to implement a system and culture in Utica for the Prospects to progress.

Yes we have had some positives this season make no mistake from a prospect standout . Juolevi was playing phenomenal until he was hurt with 13 points in 18 games , Quinn Hughes is playing absolutely outstanding and has developed the way we all wanted him too, Tyler Madden looks like a tremendous 3rd round pick , Jett Woo is having a spectacular season and has exceeded our expectations and Will Lockwood has been phenomenal. Benning can draft I will give him that .

But when is enough enough at the NHL Level , how many chances does he need ? He can’t construct a defence and fans are literally begging for Hughes who isn’t even here yet and won’t adjust to the NHL as fast as say Pettersson did or Rasmus Dahlin but it could happen but let’s not hold our breath , not acquiring draft picks for his infamous reclamation projects like Goldobin , Pouliot , Biega , Spooner , Motte, Baertschi etc. However I will give him credit for Josh Leivo and Granlund, spending way to much money on free agents like Beagle , Eriksson, Roussel, Gagner, Schaller etc. Heck he has even blown chances to trade Gudbranson and Tanev for draft picks and we could of got a 2nd for Gudbranson and a huge haul for Tanev but now we are stuck with Tanner Pearson who could potentially regain his 40 - 50 point potential and only saves 250 thousand and we might be lucky to get a 2nd round pick for Tanev etc .

Enough is Enough and we are almost certain to be drafting in the top 10 again this season, we need a total overhaul of the defence and there is no guarantee Edler resigns, major scoring help upfront and all of this falls on Benning. The time has come and Benning absolutely needs to get fired and I don’t think he has much leverage and protection left especially after this collapse. We have won 7 of our last 25 games . What’s he gunna say at the end of season press conference for positives this season outside of Markstrom , Stetcher , Hutton and our big 3 upfront (Pettersson, Boeser , Horvat. “Yeah I thought Gaudette played and developed well”. REALLY???? He’s playing 10 minutes a night and could have so many more points if only Green plays him more. I once really respected Green but my loyalty for him is as good as gone .

Aquillini needs to do the right thing this offseason and fire Benning and Green and bring in competent management and if I were him I would GIVE STEVE YZERMAN a blanque Check and make him the highest paid executive in the NHL to get us to the promised land

Long post but the only part I have an issue with is the stuff about the team giving up on Green. I think they just aren’t good enough and if anything they were overachieving most of the season. They have hit the wall the last few games but I don’t get the impression that the team has quit on Green. Just a team that has a few injuries with inadequate depth to replace those players

 

[Burke's Evil Spirit]

Which means it is the most likely outcome as a Canucks fan.

What? Come on. One thing you can say about Aquilini is when he cleans house he cleans house. Mike Gillis got to completely overhaul the organization, post-Nonis. And Linden/Benning got to do the same thing. The next guy will too.

 

[ChilliBilly]

We lost the Sedins, gained EP ... about even.

EP alone is enough to carry a team with a decent line up.

I predict playoffs next year if Tryamkin returns. If not, the year after.

We need a decent year from our last 5 1st draft picks. Juolevi Virtanen EP hughes Horvat and Boeser.

 

[Krnuckfan]

So this will be four consecutive seasons that Benning will miss the playoffs which makes him the active leader in consecutive postseason droughts for a GM.

Next season will be the same story, I don't see this team making a 15+ point improvement in the standings so that will be 5 consecutive post season droughts if he's not fired mid season.

Not sure what the all time record is for consecutive postseason droughts for a GM but Benning has to be getting up there in the incompetence leaderboard

Mike milbury missed 6 seasons in a row. Steve Tambellini missed 5 seasons in a row. Doug McLean missed 6 seasons in a row but at least he has the excuse of being GM of an expansion team. That's some fine company Benning is in.

 

[MadaCanuckle]

From TSN1040:

What would you prefer?

34% Benning remains GM
21% Hire experienced GM
45% Hire young progressive GM

2/3 of a good sample (more than 2200 votes total) want a new regime. It seems Twitter, who was so pro Benning, is sick of it.

 

[Askel]

Which of Edler, Tanev, Stetcher, or Hutton gets bumped to the third pairing to make way for this new top-4 defender?

Is this a problem to have a good defenseman on your bottom pair? Tanev and Edler will miss games, probably around 10- 20 each. To have player that can move up in the lineup is how you survive injuries. And having a good defense is important. Having those 4 d-men in your top 4 is not some sort of great defense. Look at what good teams have.

Edler-New Guy
Hutton-Stetcher
Hughes-Tanev

This defense could survive some injuries without have to play replacement level players like Pouliot, Gudbranson, Biega or Del Zotto in the top 4 like we have seen here the last few years.

 

[Tables of Stats]

Jonathan Dahlen denies demanding trade, dials in on development

In the presser, Benning said the agent asked for a trade, at least according to the quote (watched the presser two times, maybe lost in the you knows I couldn't find it). In Sportsnet 650 interview, Benning said Dahlen himself asked for a trade. Dahlen said he didn't asked for anything. I see a lot of lies here.

It's Benning, he probably misspoke given that we have a quote about the agent asking for a trade, which makes sense in a world where the team and Dahlen we're far apart on what they wanted his role and focus to be. The player probably just wanted a change and was hoping for a different role instead of a trade.

This team is a piss poor possession team. You only get that if there are massive holes or it is poorly coached or a combination of both.

There are huge holes, it is depth. Bottom 6 depth cant score, top 6 cant either.

When did I deny any of this? The injuries killed our already limited depth, our system exposes our defense, and now our uptempo gameplan is falling apart as what we have left is burnt out after a season of having to outwork every team they face. That doesn't mean that we haven't improved and that we can't look to be a little better for next season.

I want us to target a 4/5 defenseman, a top-six winger, and look at what we can do to improve our bot-six wing depth this offseason. Unfortunately, I think that the best we can do is address the defense with one player [Lovejoy] (two if we let Edler walk), add an out of favor top six winger [Eberle], and try to shed some players and hope for addition by subtraction in the bottom six. Try to avoid deals over two-years in term so we can make large changes next offseason.

On a team with a top defense Hutton is easily a 4/5 guy and Stecher a 5/6. This is like a day 1 Benning fallacy when he ditched Garrison and the defense was made by fans that you can't be paying your #5 guy almost $5M. Problem is someone in your top 4 is inevitably going to be injured for a good part of the season so everyone below gets bumped up, so it's a good use of cap space to have this redundancy. But after creating the hole 5 years later Benning has still never filled the hole and just stuck with the same failing structure every year.

Looking at the past 3 management teams these were the best bluelines they put forward:

Burke:
Ohlund-Salo
Jovo-Sopel
Baron-Malik
Allen, Baumgartner

Nonis:
Ohlund-Salo
Mitchell-Bieksa
Krajicek-Sopel
Edler, Fitzpatrick

Gillis
Edler-Ehrhoff
Hamhuis-Bieksa
Ballard-Salo
Alberts, Rome, Tanev

Hutton and Stecher are good players for us to have but they're more a Brent Sopel class of dman. There should be one more legit top 4 guy ahead of them, and a promising kid behind them (which there is with Hughes). And since Edler/Tanev are so often injured one of them should be replaced with a more durable top 4.

"Sweeping" may be too harsh a word but yes changes are obviously needed on the blueline. And While I was pessimistic Benning would be kept around for another year earlier in the season I'm really hoping that the momentum is picking up to give him the boot now.

Is this a problem to have a good defenseman on your bottom pair? Tanev and Edler will miss games, probably around 10- 20 each. To have player that can move up in the lineup is how you survive injuries. And having a good defense is important. Having those 4 d-men in your top 4 is not some sort of great defense. Look at what good teams have.

Edler-New Guy
Hutton-Stetcher
Hughes-Tanev

This defense could survive some injuries without have to play replacement level players like Pouliot, Gudbranson, Biega or Del Zotto in the top 4 like we have seen here the last few years.

Are you serious? Yeah let’s not make changes to the defensive unit of the worst team in the NHL over the last 4 years because it would hurt someone’s feelings.

Reading comprehension is an issue around these parts isn't it?

I asked who we'd move down to the bottom pairing out of our current top 4 options. I didn't say we shouldn't look to upgrade our defense.

Now I'd like all three of you to name the defenseman you'd like for that top-4 spot?

My pick is veteran defenseman Ben Lovejoy, he's a rental for Dallas and at 33 he's not likely to get a ton of league interest. If we can grab him on a short deal for $3-4 million he can help steady up a defense pairing while still being easy to move at the TDL. If the wheels fall off him, it's also not a huge deal if we keep his term under two-season.

So, assuming EK wants nothing to do with us as would be realistic, who do you want and what salary and term do you feel we can offer? Also, assume we have to pay a Benning tax, so factor in expected free agent money and then figure on adding a million to that.

 

[me2]

Can I also ask you to clearly define what a 'Benning Paradigm' is in detail?

Nobody can do that because there is no Benning Paradigm, there is no Benning Plan either. Just random reactionary moves as he blows aimlessly about while things just happen for whatever reason wafts through the organisation on any given day.

Well maybe you can define what a 'Benning Paradigm' is: a chaotic directionless mess.

 

[me2]

If he wants a NTC, make it limited, 5 teams of the Canucks choice

That is the entire league, Vancouver can just deal with all 30 other teams and pick the 5 best offers. That's not a NTC, limited or otherwise.

 

[Addison Rae]

Let’s fix our defense with Ben f***ing Lovejoy

Jesus

 

[406in604]

Our asset management has been horrible... overpaid guddy in acquiring and contract, same with Sutter, let Hamhuis walk, overpaid for Beagle, Schaller, and to some extent Roussel, and the list goes on.

On the positive side:

Juolevi and Hughes will improve the back end. Hutton has had a good year. Edler, Tanev and Stetcher round out the D nicely, with Biega and Pouliot as back up. If Tryamkin comes back we in fact look great.

Goaltending seems solid. As does C. We need a bounce back season from Boeser. But I think we are only 2 top 6 wingers away from being a very good team.

Not a JB fan, but I think we make the playoffs next year.

Seriously.

Not one of those prospects you mentioned is a guarantee. Juolevi is oft-injured, Hughes is a high ceiling prospect but not a guarantee.

This team should try to land EK and Myers in the offseason.

 

[BROCK HUGHES]

From TSN1040:

What would you prefer?

34% Benning remains GM
21% Hire experienced GM
45% Hire young progressive GM

2/3 of a good sample (more than 2200 votes total) want a new regime. It seems Twitter, who was so pro Benning, is sick of it.

Benning has had enough time already.
He should have made changes to the blue line last season and he did not.
Getting rid of Guddy is not just the answer but a start the should have been done long ago.I want to see a change in GM,s its needed now.Poor FA signings,and holding onto a stale core while bringing in young guys,,,how has that worked for you Jim?

 

[mathonwy]

Nobody can do that because there is no Benning Paradigm, there is no Benning Plan either. Just random reactionary moves as he blows aimlessly about while things just happen for whatever reason wafts through the organisation on any given day.

Well maybe you can define what a 'Benning Paradigm' is: a chaotic directionless mess.

You (and half the forum) knows that I see order in that chaos.

An order that cares not a bit about the 40+ year old Canucks franchise that you and I care about.

After awhile, incompetence and stupidity are no longer reasonable explanations.

 

[clunk]

I'm pretty pessimistic about this. I think it takes 2-3 years yet for Benning to get fired.

It seems Aquilini has bought into this nonsense and it's going to take immense fan pressure to get him fired, like with Gillis.

There is still a third of the fanbase (judging by the poll) that love Benning and due to his bias, he will listen to them the most. He's fine with missing the playoffs because he's confident in Benning building a perennial contender because 'muh shiny new prospects'.

 

[StreetHawk]

Correct,..in fact there's a clause in EP's contract that if he did not make the Canucks he would go back and play pro hockey in Sweden for another year...They were a consensus bottom of the league team, with consensus bottom of the league goaltending.

Ranking all 31 NHL teams by their goalie tandems

You could almost say that Benning and Aqualini were on team tank from the outset....There were very low expectations (which got raised as the season went on)

The cause of concern I have this off season will be that benning’S job is likely on the line next season. What will he do his off season to give himself the best shot of an extension cause they have to make a decision on green at the end of next year. You don’t generally leave a coach going into his final year.

Benning has not done a good enough job to have the opportunity to fire his second coach. So, see how this summer goes.

 

[RandV]

Reading comprehension is an issue around these parts isn't it?

I asked who we'd move down to the bottom pairing out of our current top 4 options. I didn't say we shouldn't look to upgrade our defense.

Now I'd like all three of you to name the defenseman you'd like for that top-4 spot?

My pick is veteran defenseman Ben Lovejoy, he's a rental for Dallas and at 33 he's not likely to get a ton of league interest. If we can grab him on a short deal for $3-4 million he can help steady up a defense pairing while still being easy to move at the TDL. If the wheels fall off him, it's also not a huge deal if we keep his term under two-season.

So, assuming EK wants nothing to do with us as would be realistic, who do you want and what salary and term do you feel we can offer? Also, assume we have to pay a Benning tax, so factor in expected free agent money and then figure on adding a million to that.

If you're not saying the defense is fine then you're passing the buck for Benning. We're all just fans here, not NHL GM's, we're not tuned into who may or may not be available nor do we have any ability to do anything about it.

While I'm fine accepting that no matter how hard fans complain sometimes circumstances tie a GM's hands (like say Gillis trying to trade Luongo), in this case we've had 5 years of Benning and the key contributor he's added to the current blueline is Troy Stecher.

In 5 years he's squandered a number of guys he had left over, either through bad trade sequences or simply letting them walk for nothing: Garrison, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Y.Weber. A couple of what would be NHL ready prospects have been squandered, Tryamkin and Forsling. The two key acquisitions he spent significant resources on were horrible and are no longer with the team, Sbisa and Gudbranson. For all the UFA money he's spent the only signings he's allotted to the blueline are Del Zotto, Batkowski, and... is there even another UFA signing here? He's made a number of smaller deals for 'age gap' players that have amounted to nothing: Clendening, Pedan, Pouilliot, Holm.

So at this point in the game it's completely irrelevant what may be immediately available this summer, something is fundamentally wrong with Benning's ability to assess and acquire dmen. It's not likely possible to fix the blueline in one summer, but the point is we need someone who can fix it period. Every Canucks GM before Benning going way back has been able to make solid pro acquisitions to our blue line, but Benning fell flat on his face from day 1 when he had the opportunity to acquire Vatanen but chose Sbisa.

 

[Tables of Stats]

Let’s fix our defense with Ben ****ing Lovejoy

Jesus

For a season or two why not? What UFA defenseman do you think we ought to target this offseason?

 

[Tables of Stats]

If you're not saying the defense is fine then you're passing the buck for Benning. We're all just fans here, not NHL GM's, we're not tuned into who may or may not be available nor do we have any ability to do anything about it.

While I'm fine accepting that no matter how hard fans complain sometimes circumstances tie a GM's hands (like say Gillis trying to trade Luongo), in this case we've had 5 years of Benning and the key contributor he's added to the current blueline is Troy Stecher.

In 5 years he's squandered a number of guys he had left over, either through bad trade sequences or simply letting them walk for nothing: Garrison, Bieksa, Hamhuis, Y.Weber. A couple of what would be NHL ready prospects have been squandered, Tryamkin and Forsling. The two key acquisitions he spent significant resources on were horrible and are no longer with the team, Sbisa and Gudbranson. For all the UFA money he's spent the only signings he's allotted to the blueline are Del Zotto, Batkowski, and... is there even another UFA signing here? He's made a number of smaller deals for 'age gap' players that have amounted to nothing: Clendening, Pedan, Pouilliot, Holm.

So at this point in the game it's completely irrelevant what may be immediately available this summer, something is fundamentally wrong with Benning's ability to assess and acquire dmen. It's not likely possible to fix the blueline in one summer, but the point is we need someone who can fix it period. Every Canucks GM before Benning going way back has been able to make solid pro acquisitions to our blue line, but Benning fell flat on his face from day 1 when he had the opportunity to acquire Vatanen but chose Sbisa.

So now I'm retroactively defending Benning somehow?!? No.

I'm asking what you would do this season because you've attacked my offseason plan. You can just say that plan sucks, lol get a top-4 noob without explaining your own plan for the offseason.

Edler's term aside, I think my signings are within the realm of possibility and the dollars terms and conditions I'd be willing to offer. I'd play hardball with Edler and make it clear that while I'm open to bringing him back that I'm not happy with his TDL choice and simply can't afford to give him dollars, term, and an NTC at this stage of his career. Term is off the table due to the expansion draft, but I'd be happy to give dollars and NTC if he'll take one-year deals with a handshake to keep signing single year deals until he's done.

If he walks, well he's 33 next season and I don't see Edler being a defenseman that plays into his late 30's early 40's at a top pairing level so I can't pay him like one.