Are Leaf fans prepared to do a proper rebuild?

[Bomber0104]

I agree, but good luck with that. Not ALL Leaf fans want to purposely miss the playoffs for the next four-five years after not having one appearance in eight years. And even if we shipped everyone out and tanked, knowing the luck of this franchise and knowing that a lot of luck is involved - we'd **** it up somehow. We'd either draft duds or lose the lottery each year. Look at the Islanders, Jackets, Panthers, and their long never ending rebuilds. Where did it take them?

Very pessimistic. I am sure that it would only take a few seasons to surgically rebuild this team with the draft. If it needs more it needs more. You need to draft a critical mass. Up to the GM to determine what that critical mass is and if it is sufficient to contend one day.

All I'm saying is that there is not ONE right way to build a contending team. And a lot more goes into it than simply finishing 28th-30th for four-five years in a row.

Definitely not a one size fits all kind of thing. Each team is in a unique situation.

I'll say this though...

There is always a best decision possible.

In my opinion, the best thing the Leafs can do for themselves is not continue with this core but actively pursue the means to acquire a contender capable one...and this is going to require dipping into the draft to find those pieces...which means scrap the current core and tank to get top overall talents in the draft.

 

[Bomber0104]

Do you guys sit at home on game one of the season and cheer when the other team scores?

Not game one.

 

[Winreims]

Very pessimistic. I am sure that it would only take a few seasons to surgically rebuild this team with the draft. If it needs more it needs more. You need to draft a critical mass. Up to the GM to determine what that critical mass is and if it is sufficient to contend one day.



Definitely not a one size fits all kind of thing. Each team is in a unique situation.

I'll say this though...

There is always a best decision possible.

In my opinion, the best thing the Leafs can do for themselves is not continue with this core but actively pursue the means to acquire a contender capable one...and this is going to require dipping into the draft to find those pieces...which means scrap the current core and tank to get top overall talents in the draft.

I am pessimistic when someone suggests we do exactly what Edmonton did, something that I believe we'll never witness again. I am however optimistic when it comes to Dave Nonis and his ability to shape this team into first a playoff contender and then a cup contender years down the road (without purposely tanking).

 

[Winreims]

sorry Nonis isn't going to "blow it up" and build from ashes

^This exactly. I honestly don't see him blowing it all up.

 

[613Leafer]

Edmonton got lucky, let's not kid ourselves here. And they still have a long way to go with regards to D and goaltending (and let's see them re-sign all of those forwards years down the line..)

Because it was the 1st overall every year? Switch it up then.

Seguin + Huberdeau/Landeskog/Strome/Larsson + Rielly/Galchenyuk/Murray... It still looks pretty good with no 1st overalls.

 

[ULF_55]

You may need to update the terminology you use to get in line with the way thinks work now in the NHL. Previously, bottom 5 picks were called "lottery picks" because they were the only ones with a shot at the number 1 pick. However, now all 14 non-playoff teams could win the number 1 pick in the lottery, so techinically all non-playoff teams would be "in the lottery".

That's where the luck comes in.

They could earn a top 5 pick, or have Lady Luck garnish them with one. (garnish ... I'm hungry food is in the oven cooking)

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Do you guys sit at home on game one of the season and cheer when the other team scores?

No... we cheer for the leafs.
It's just that, under Brian Burke, there wasn't too much to cheer for.

I can't WAIT to have a leaf team that isn't humiliating that I can actually cheer for.
The first step towards that was firing Brian Burke.

 

[cup67]

sorry Nonis isn't going to "blow it up" and build from ashe

no one here is going to wish the Leafs to blow out and tank this year
no Leaf fan is going to wanna spend 2 hours every game to watch their team lose

if you dont enjoy seeing the Leafs win their games in general
you probably might wanna recheck if you're really a fan

just like burke, retool, look where that got us no playoffs in 4 years, no playoffs this year. prospects are ranked 20th, some have no nhl experence, because of burke.
lupol is gone after this year, kessel is gone after next year.
so retool with abunch of plugs and hope we make 8th spot.
than become the best middle of the pack team. great lets do it.

 

[Winreims]

Because it was the 1st overall every year? Switch it up then.

Seguin + Huberdeau/Landeskog/Strome/Larsson + Rielly/Galchenyuk/Murray... It still looks pretty good with no 1st overalls.

Something tells me having Seguin/Huberdeau/Rielly STILL wouldn't be good enough for some people on here.. There will always be someone better for people to yearn for.

 

[Bomber0104]

sorry Nonis isn't going to "blow it up" and build from ashe

no one here is going to wish the Leafs to blow out and tank this year

no Leaf fan is going to wanna spend 2 hours every game to watch their team lose

Can you see into the future?

if you dont enjoy seeing the Leafs win their games in general you probably might wanna recheck if you're really a fan

I want to see the Leafs win a Cup. With the core the Leafs have right now, I don't see how they could ever become a contender without tearing down and rebuilding later. May as well do it now.

 

[Bomber0104]

Something tells me having Seguin/Huberdeau/Rielly STILL wouldn't be good enough for some people on here.. There will always be someone better for people to yearn for.

Those are great prospects. No one in their right mind would suggest otherwise.

 

[Winreims]

just like burke, retool, look where that got us no playoffs in 4 years, no playoffs this year. prospects are ranked 20th, some have no nhl experence, because of burke.
lupol is gone after this year, kessel is gone after next year.
so retool with abunch of plugs and hope we make 8th spot.
than become the best middle of the pack team. great lets do it.

Or we could retool properly like a number of other contending teams did/do. Burke made some terrible decisions regarding FA, trades, draft choices.

 

[Winreims]

Those are great prospects. No one in their right mind would suggest otherwise.

Oh believe me, people would still complain. There is always someone better for people to ***** about the Leafs not having.

 

[Bomber0104]

Or we could retool properly like a number of other contending teams did/do. Burke made some terrible decisions regarding FA, trades, draft choices.

I don't see how you can "retool" and pick up a number one center without trading away other "tools" in other positions.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul?

 

[Bomber0104]

Oh believe me, people would still complain. There is always someone better for people to ***** about the Leafs not having.

I'm pretty happy with Morgan Rielly at 5th overall.

He's an excellent prospect.

I wouldn't complain about Huberdeau or Seguin either.

Great picks at the spots they were taken in.

 

[achtungbaby]

Or we could retool properly like a number of other contending teams did/do. Burke made some terrible decisions regarding FA, trades, draft choices.

The keyword there was "contending". Most teams that did a quick retool were in a lot better shape when they decided on the retool option.

 

[Winreims]

I don't see how you can "retool" and pick up a number one center without trading away other "tools" in other positions.

Robbing Peter to pay Paul?

Rangers retooled and signed Brad Richards, Sharks retooled and traded for Joe Thornton. Burke's idea of retooling was Tim Connolly. People on here believe we can sign Getzlaf, only time will tell on that one.

 

[Winreims]

The keyword there was "contending". Most teams that did a quick retool were in a lot better shape when they decided on the retool option.

Well if the plan is to deliberately tank year in year out, how do we expect anyone to want to play here (sign here)? Seriously? I've seen people say let's blow it all up and finish 30th and then sign Perry/Getzlaf. It doesn't work like that, they would never willingly come here with the team in disarray.

I'm not saying to do a "quick" retool and win the cup next year. Retool enough to be a playoff contender/team, start drafting well with our picks in the first round (even if it isn't first-second overall) and draft well with all of our picks in the later rounds.

 

[613Leafer]

Or we could retool properly like a number of other contending teams did/do. Burke made some terrible decisions regarding FA, trades, draft choices.

Our free agent signings have been pretty bad for years. Wheres our Smith? Fleishmann? Theodore? Doesnt necessarily need to be a top top free agent, but ours almost always seem to flop.

Connolly, Armstrong, Komi, Gustavvson, Orr, etc. Bozak and Beauchemin were decent, but Bozak was super hyped, so that was no benefit of our pro scouting or GMs decisionn making IMO, and Beauchemin mostly worked out because of the subsequent trade.

MacArthur has been our only real great bang-for-your-buck UFA signing in quite some time as far as I can recall.

 

[Winreims]

Our free agent signings have been pretty bad for years. Wheres our Smith? Fleishmann? Theodore? Doesnt necessarily need to be a top top free agent, but ours almost always seem to flop.

Connolly, Armstrong, Komi, Gustavvson, Orr, etc. Bozak and Beauchemin were decent, but Bozak was super hyped, so that was no benefit of our pro scouting or GMs decisionn making IMO, and Beauchemin mostly worked out because of the subsequent trade.

MacArthur has been our only real great bang-for-your-buck UFA signing in quite some time as far as I can recall.

Connolly was a disaster signing. At the time I appreciated Burke for trying, but he was an injury proned, disappointing (at times) centerman. Komisarek's contract was ridiculous, didn't care for the Armstrong/Orr signings. Going after Bozak and Gus were risks that proved to be failures for the most part (although Bozak IS a decent player). Instead of going after a sure thing, Burkie went after unproven-in-the-NHL players.

We never got the big fish in the FA pools during Burke's tenure, and the little fish we did get were never as good as what other teams signed.

 

[achtungbaby]

Oh believe me, people would still complain. There is always someone better for people to ***** about the Leafs not having.

Much like the bellyaching you're doing right now? Relax a little, you'll enjoy hockey a lot more.

 

[ConnorTO]

I want to see the Leafs win a Cup.

so the only time you turn on your TV and watch a Leafs game... is when they're in the Stanley Cup finals...

i uno that's what am getting out of your ideology


where's your love for the sport of hockey? good games regardless if you lose
do 29 teams every year have to go about on abusing the draft system?


come on

 

[Winreims]

Much like the bellyaching you're doing right now? Relax a little, you'll enjoy hockey a lot more.

Actually I'm not *****ing, complaining or bellyaching about anything right now. There is this thing called reading comprehension, you might want to look into that...

 

[egd27]

Edmonton did a "proper rebuild" and have excellent young talent such as Eberle, Hall, Hopkins, Yakupov, and Schultz.

Toronto did an "improper rebuild" and have young talent such as Reilly, Gardiner, Colbourne, and Kadri. (I don't consider a grizzled veteran going into his 8th full nhl season to be a "young player" anymore).

It's all pretty simple.
I'm quite surprised that you would ask such a question, to be honest.
Were you just joking around?

Was the islanders rebuild proper or improper?

 

[Bomber0104]

so the only time you turn on your TV and watch a Leafs game... is when they're in the Stanley Cup finals...

i uno that's what am getting out of your ideology


where's your love for the sport of hockey? good games regardless if you lose
do 29 teams every year have to go about on abusing the draft system?


come on

When I watch the Leafs, it's simply for the entertainment of the game and to scout the Leafs and other teams' players.

I understand that the Leafs need to get serious about compiling a new core of players. Under that paradigm, yes I do believe the team should strive to disassemble the current core and lose.

It doesn't make me less of a fan, I just operate under a different belief system in how a Cup can be reasonably ascertained.

What we all have in common is that we want the Leafs to win a Cup. We simply differ on the mechanics of how to make that happen.