News Article: Any thoughts on Jiri Hudler...??

[mrinsane]

We should waive DD, make a deal for the top-6 packaging Ghetto, Condon, Emelin and a good prospect or some picks.

 

[Sterling Archer]

I like how people rely on ''intangibles''. Can you please let us know what ''intangibles'' bring Vermette ? Or, what he bring offensively over DD, or defensively over Mitchell or Danault ? Because it is what it's all about - upgrading something - while not slowing our player developement. Hudon, McCarron, DLR and Co have to play.

I think you're mixing points with my posts. If you'd like to know what intangibles Vermette brings over DD I'd be happy to list them.

If you want a scouting report on all the players you pulled out of midair for some inexplicable reason, you'll have to go elsewhere as I'm not interested in amusing your request for a compete breakdown of our bottom 6.

If you'd like to know why intangibles are and how they are used, I'd be happy to answer that.

Just pick a relevant question or two you'd like answered and I'll be happy to oblige

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

I don't think Hudler is on Bergevin's radar.
I have a feeling MB is still working on prying Shipachyov out of the KHL and that's why he hasn't signed Vermette yet. Why else would he not jump at an ex-Hawk who won a cup with that team.

yeah when MB had his off season presser on july 1 or 2nd. he was really coy about Shipyachov. Made me think he was in on him but who does he move to afford him?

 

[Treb]

I think you're mixing points with my posts. If you'd like to know what intangibles Vermette brings over DD I'd be happy to list them.

If you want a scouting report on all the players you pulled out of midair for some inexplicable reason, you'll have to go elsewhere as I'm not interested in amusing your request for a compete breakdown of our bottom 6.

If you'd like to know why intangibles are and how they are used, I'd be happy to answer that.

Just pick a relevant question or two you'd like answered and I'll be happy to oblige

I think it was clear.. here is the point form:

- What intangibles does Vermette bring?

- Is he better than DD offensively?

- Is he better than Danault/Mitchell defensively?

 

[Adam Michaels]

yeah when MB had his off season presser on july 1 or 2nd. he was really coy about Shipyachov. Made me think he was in on him but who does he move to afford him?

Habs were in on him before everyone else started to take notice. In fact, he was reportedly real close to signing with Montreal before his KHL team stepped in and nixed it (they exercised their third year option and even offered him a raise, if I'm no lt mistaken).

I highly doubt MB has stopped his chase of Shipachyov. He was asked about him at his presser on July 1st, and all he said was he intrigues him.

I'm not 100% sure, but I recall reading on Habs Eyes on the Prize that Shipachyov will be free to come to the NHL as of December.

Some feel that with Datsyuk signing with the same team in KHL, they will release Shipachyov and allow him to give her ever he wants.

Forgive me for going off subject. As for Hudler, he is probably the only UFA left that I wouldn't mind seeing the Habs sign. I will add Tanguay and Vermette to that list. All might be old but championship teams are a good mix of veterans in their later years and young blood.

 

[Teufelsdreck]

Is Vermette a better player than DD ?

I wonder what a poll on this forum would indicate/

 

[bloudy]

I don't think Hudler is on Bergevin's radar.
I have a feeling MB is still working on prying Shipachyov out of the KHL and that's why he hasn't signed Vermette yet. Why else would he not jump at an ex-Hawk who won a cup with that team.

As usual, I agree with what you say. I think this is a part of the reason we grabbed Radulov. I just wonder how we are going to afford him - would Ship come in on an entry level contract? I don't see us trading DD for cap space for an unproven player.

 

[Whitesnake]

I do prefer analytics over people wanting someone because he wear a french name. And as I pointed elsewhere, 29 GMs passed on him, and most Yote's fan don't give a **** about him bough out. His hero chart show that he is a borderline 3th line player. He's been pretty bad for Chicago in cup's run (oh yeah he scored a goal), and his corsi is declining for 6 straight year (but to be honest, his relcor% was not that bad last year), and he win FO. He produced some when paired with Tanguay - but has been invisible most of the year.

Still, I do prefer to develop players instead of using a declining vet.

What do we have this upcoming year at that position? You want to develop Desharnais? As we all know McCarron will have another year in the AHL. So the 3rd line C I would replace and want out for Vermette is....Desharnais. And guess what....he has a french name too.

But nope....for some posters in here, like yourself, whenever we are interested in a player that unfortunately has a french name, we are surely only interested in him because he's franco. No francophones can be seen as a good idea. See, I know Vermette isn't the best. But the idea to IMPROVE is to have BETTER than what we have. I think Vermette instead of Desharnais improves us. Why? 'Cause he fits more the mold of a 3rd line AND......he removes the possibility to see him centering the 1st line which will STILL be the case if DD is around.

So that's probably a reason why we won't acquire Vermette.

 

[Gamimenos]

With all due respect, I don't understand why anyone wants Vermette. No, he is not an upgrade on anything anymore. Yes, as recently as two years ago he may have been, but he is done.

It's like the people still clinging to hope that a guy like Mike Richards will re-discover his form. Vermette is now a poor man's Torrey Mitchell.

WOW! That's like homeless levels of poor.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I do prefer analytics over people wanting someone because he wear a french name. And as I pointed elsewhere, 29 GMs passed on him, and most Yote's fan don't give a **** about him bough out. His hero chart show that he is a borderline 3th line player. He's been pretty bad for Chicago in cup's run (oh yeah he scored a goal), and his corsi is declining for 6 straight year (but to be honest, his relcor% was not that bad last year), and he win FO. He produced some when paired with Tanguay - but has been invisible most of the year.

Still, I do prefer to develop players instead of using a declining vet.

What does Vermette being a French name have anything to do with this? If you think that has anything to do with it, you couldn't be more wrong. Ask around, between Desharnais, Vermette, and Shipachyov, which of those three they'd prefer to have on the roster. I'm confident the majority would opt for the Russian even if he has no NHL experience.

 

[Puck Luck Run Amok]

I think it was clear.. here is the point form:

- What intangibles does Vermette bring?

- Is he better than DD offensively?

- Is he better than Danault/Mitchell defensively?

- French?

- Same

- Definitely and especially Mitchell. IMO Mitchell's good at short passes but is really overrated defensively.

 

[Puck Luck Run Amok]

WOW! That's like homeless levels of poor.

LoL It's like a homeless guy living in Parc Ex vs one who has a nice Mountain spot.

 

[Cole Caulifield]

delete

 

[Soltantgris]

What do we have this upcoming year at that position? You want to develop Desharnais? As we all know McCarron will have another year in the AHL. So the 3rd line C I would replace and want out for Vermette is....Desharnais. And guess what....he has a french name too.

But nope....for some posters in here, like yourself, whenever we are interested in a player that unfortunately has a french name, we are surely only interested in him because he's franco. No francophones can be seen as a good idea. See, I know Vermette isn't the best. But the idea to IMPROVE is to have BETTER than what we have. I think Vermette instead of Desharnais improves us. Why? 'Cause he fits more the mold of a 3rd line AND......he removes the possibility to see him centering the 1st line which will STILL be the case if DD is around.

So that's probably a reason why we won't acquire Vermette.

Well you misunderstood me (or my english is just not good enough). Bergevin just paid 2 good 2rd round pick to get Shaw a pay him a ******** of money longterm - and he can play C. I hope he can, realy. Last year MB traded for Danault. Hudon is ready to get some NHL time. McCarron ? DeLaRose ? And still we have Mitchell, and the great Flynn playing C (Flynn win FO). I don't know if one of Danault / Shaw / Hudon will do the job as a third line C - but I would like this team/GM/coach to give them some chance to do so.

I would waive DD (and Flynn btw) - burn him in AHL - as you said - to remove the possibility of MT wasting our best wingers with him. I would pass on Vermette because he his not a great upgrade, and I would ride our young guys to start with. There will be plenty of time to upgrade later if we need it.

 

[Whitesnake]

Well you misunderstood me (or my english is just not good enough). Bergevin just paid 2 good 2rd round pick to get Shaw a pay him a ******** of money longterm - and he can play C. I hope he can, realy. Last year MB traded for Danault. Hudon is ready to get some NHL time. McCarron ? DeLaRose ? And still we have Mitchell, and the great Flynn playing C (Flynn win FO). I don't know if one of Danault / Shaw / Hudon will do the job as a third line C - but I would like this team/GM/coach to give them some chance to do so.

I would waive DD (and Flynn btw) - burn him in AHL - as you said - to remove the possibility of MT wasting our best wingers with him. I would pass on Vermette because he his not a great upgrade, and I would ride our young guys to start with. There will be plenty of time to upgrade later if we need it.

Shaw will be on the wings so that's no relation to Vermette. Danault is more likely going to be on a 4th line, he hasn't proved to me he could be higher than that...yet. Mac and DLR, totally AHL material, especially since they don't have to go through waivers comparing to Ghetto and others. I want DLR to find some offensive to his game. Just some. Not all of it....

I'M not going to NOT hire Vermette because we have Flynn. Never understood that trade, this guy is waiver material.So yep, Mitchell is there too...but that's 4 line to me as well. FRankly, I KNOW we will have DD centering the 3rd. So based on that, Vermette WOULD be taking DD's place. And that's why I see the improvement. But it won't happen.

 

[Soltantgris]

Shaw will be on the wings so that's no relation to Vermette. Danault is more likely going to be on a 4th line, he hasn't proved to me he could be higher than that...yet. Mac and DLR, totally AHL material, especially since they don't have to go through waivers comparing to Ghetto and others. I want DLR to find some offensive to his game. Just some. Not all of it....

I'M not going to NOT hire Vermette because we have Flynn. Never understood that trade, this guy is waiver material.So yep, Mitchell is there too...but that's 4 line to me as well. FRankly, I KNOW we will have DD centering the 3rd. So based on that, Vermette WOULD be taking DD's place. And that's why I see the improvement. But it won't happen.

Not sure for Danault. He did a freaking good job last year after the trade. Started 62% of the time in D-Zone, ended with a CF%-Rel of 4.9, and 56% FO ! Still, playing no PP time, managed to score 3 goals (12 goals pace). Would be a hell of a 4th line C right now if he keep the pace - and he is still very young.

And Hudon is not AHL material anymore - I would bet on it. Not sure if he can handle C yet.

 

[Whitesnake]

Not sure for Danault. He did a freaking good job last year after the trade. Started 62% of the time in D-Zone, ended with a CF%-Rel of 4.9, and 56% FO ! Still, playing no PP time, managed to score 3 goals (12 goals pace). Would be a hell of a 4th line C right now if he keep the pace - and he is still very young.

And Hudon is not AHL material anymore - I would bet on it. Not sure if he can handle C yet.

For me, Hudon non-usage this yaer despite us having 250 injuries was a slap in the face. Can't wait to see the chances he'll get during preseason....but the kid should have played way more games than he did last year. If you want to be sure he's ready this year, you should have played him more last year when the year was done and over with.

 

[Brainiac]

His 1st name is 4 letters long?

 

[FerrisRox]

Hudler or Vermette....either guy could help the Habs. If either one is willing to sign a 1 yr 1 million contract with us then i'm all for it.

I really thinking signing a bottom six player is literally the last thing the Canadiens need.

 

[BatVader]

Personally, I'd really like MB to go out and get a top 6 LW to play on the 2nd line, but it's more likely he lets the kids fight it out for that slot.
I see MB focusing on 2 things right now. Would be really great if he somehow managed to do both.
1) - A top 2 LD to partner with Weber, as we have no one able to adequately fill that roll. Beaulieu and Emelin are not top 2 material; Markov is to slow and can't handle the minutes; Sergachev is to young and should spend another year or 2 in the minors, (or AHL). Fowler is the most common choice, and possibly the best, but there could be other options.
2) - Prying Shipachyov out of Russia. MB has shown a liking for Ship and has reportedly been working on getting him for months now. So I don't think he is done trying. It would require making cap space, and in my opinion Emelin is the likely one traded to make room as he has a $4.1m cap hit which would be close to what Ship would cost, and we have Beau, Markov, and Barberio on the LD. Plus, if MB gets that top pairing LD, then Emelin becomes very expendable.

 

[MSLs absurd thighs]

His 1st name is 4 letters long?

Not if you're Pierre Houde. In that case it's 6 letters long.

JIERGÉ.

 

[MXD]

On Hudler : I'd rather pencil in a young player, preferably Hudon, in that spot.
If Hudon isn't quite what we hope for : deadline rental (and we'd also probably get a better player than Hudler)
If we're in no position for a rental : don't bother.

On Vermette : Maybe for Flynn's spot (versatile spare forward), that's it. He's not better than any of Desharnais, Mitchell, Danault.

 

[Soltantgris]

So that's the only stat you need to give us a complete portrait of the player? This is why some people have problems with analytics....

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2...ens-free-agency-signing-2016-contract-habs-no

 

[Sterling Archer]

I think it was clear.. here is the point form:

- What intangibles does Vermette bring?

- Is he better than DD offensively?

- Is he better than Danault/Mitchell defensively?

1) He's bigger, won't get knocked off the puck anytime there's the slightest hint of contact and won't be pinned to the boards like a 80's Samantha Fox poster a la DD.

2) The question was is he a better 3rd line centre than DD. The answer is absolutely yes. DD is too small to play against what is normally larger, more physical play. He's a play maker and made his career feeding to the puck to Patches (a top 5 NHL goal scorer) at any cost. He won't have that advantage on the 3rd line. He's also not capable of playing any other position as he's too small to play wing without getting crushed, he's not very good defensively and he can't physically play against larger more physical players. He's also shown he's not as good a goal scorer as Vermette who's put up more goals consistently than DD.

3) As I said in my initial post, I don't see the relevance of comparing him to any other player than DD as that's the spot he'd be taking. Even if he was weaker than they are on defense, he's disproportionately better on offence than they are. So any shortcomings would be offset with the offense and size he brings over those players. Ultimately they are very different players than Vermette, not to mention he can step in to play in the top 6 in case of injury whereas Mitchell and Danault cannot.

http://www.habseyesontheprize.com/2...ens-free-agency-signing-2016-contract-habs-no

Still only looking at 1 year out of a career where he's had far better numbers. Do you judge the entirety of a players career by his last year alone? Does one bad year mean a player can't recover and he'll only get worse? Never taking into account personal issues, desire, motivation etc etc etc.

Those are the type of questions analytics don't cover and can't express. That's why I think you can look to analytics as a useful tool but never as a sum total of how to assess a player. There are plenty of examples of players who had fantastic analytics one year and bombed the next and the same for the "eye test" which is why they should be used in conjunction with each other.

 

[Sterling Archer]

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