Any reason to think McDavid can beat Crosby this year?

[PensBandwagonerNo272*]

Top 5 in scoring will be Crosby, McDavid, Kane, Seguin and Benn in some order. Throw the names in a hat and pull em out.

 

[oobga]

If you take out his first 2 games, he's on pace for a 0 point season. Not impressed.

 

[THall4]

He's not and will never be as good as Crosby is (in his prime)

I suggest you sit down and watch this kid play a game or 2. He absolutely will be a better player...different style of player..but better..

 

[TomDelonge]

I suggest you sit down and watch this kid play a game or 2. He absolutely will be a better player...different style of player..but better..

Posts like this are absolutely hilarious. How are you so sure? It is just as bad as saying that he for sure won't be. Nobody could possibly know. Malkin set the world on fire too when he came in the league. He didn't end up better than Crosby and McDavid shows a lot of promise but nothing is certain either way.

 

[Phil Kessels Hot Dog]

I'm a huge fan of McDavid, but provided Crosby plays at least 70 games and the Pens don't re-hire Johnston, I don't really see it happening this year.

 

[Draw Me a McElephant]

If you take out his first 2 games, he's on pace for a 0 point season. Not impressed.

The problem is McDavid just can't produce against Eastern teams. Against the west he averages 3 ppg, but is at 0 ppg versus the East.

 

[Empoleon8771]

McDavid might end up a better offensive player than Crosby. Or he might end up "just" being on Tavares' level. Let's stop acting like people can tell the future. I feel like McDavid will end up eclipsing Crosby offensively soon, but I don't know if he'll ever be as good as peak Crosby (or peak Ovechkin, for that matter) was. 2010-2011 Crosby would have probably finished around 50-55 goals and 120-125 points if not for the concussion issues, I don't know if McDavid will be able to get that many points in a season and I don't think he'll ever be as good of a goal scorer as Crosby is/was.

 

[Ainec]

I suggest you sit down and watch this kid play a game or 2. He absolutely will be a better player...different style of player..but better..

ummmmmm... no. There is no certainty. I think he'll likely be as good

Are people forgetting how good Crosby is after MVP in the World Cup and the Playoffs

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I do think folks should temper their expectations about McDavid based on the two games against Calgary. He torched a team that, quite frankly, looked like a mess both games. Of all the games I've watched so far in this new season, Calgary looked the absolute sloppiest. Buffalo played a decent game and look at the result.

(Note: I'm not saying McDavid will always go scoreless against teams playing well, just that it's hard to gauge his season when his two big games came against a team playing like garbage)

 

[FDBluth]

I didn't think we'd see another Gretzky/Lemieux level player again in our lifetimes but I'm starting to think Mcdavid has the potential. I'm not sure he'll ever be as refined an all around player as Crosby and he still has some work to do to, particular his board play and cycling, but the creativity is off the charts. I do wonder how much he relies on his speed though, because neither Gretzky or Lemieux were burners. Their games were much more dependent on iq than speed, and that's what allowed them to remain 100+ point players even in their 30s. Players skating start to decline around 27ish, but the same time they gain experience. It'll be interesting to see how his game evolves. Before anything though, I want to see a full, dominant 100+ point season from him.

Gretzky's agility was pretty insane, though. Similar to McDavid's. Obviously his top-end speed was nowhere near what McDavid's already is though.

 

[ForzaItalia]

I'm a huge fan of McDavid, but provided Crosby plays at least 70 games and the Pens don't re-hire Johnston, I don't really see it happening this year.

I can't see Sid winning the scoring title or out scoring McDavid if he only plays 70 games.

 

[Phil Kessels Hot Dog]

I can't see Sid winning the scoring title or out scoring McDavid if he only plays 70 games.

Maybe not, Crosby's been around 1.3 ppg (his career avg basically) post Johnston which is 91 points in 70. I'm not sure McDavid breaks 90 this year, maybe we'll see.

 

[a587b]

McDavid might end up a better offensive player than Crosby. Or he might end up "just" being on Tavares' level. Let's stop acting like people can tell the future.

He's already better than Tavares. A stronger shot is the only advantage for Tavares. McDavid is already on a different level as a skater and playmaker.

Per game, McDavid outscored Tavares by a wide margin in their respective rookie seasons (48 in 45 games vs 54 in 82 games). Removing his first two seasons to pump up his average, Tavares is almost exactly a point per game since then, 350 in 349. McDavid has 54 points in 48 games and unless injuries unforeseeably ravage his abilities that scoring rate is only going to increase.

 

[Empoleon8771]

He's already better than Tavares. A stronger shot is the only advantage for Tavares. McDavid is already on a different level as a skater and playmaker.

Per game, McDavid outscored Tavares by a wide margin in their respective rookie seasons (48 in 45 games vs 54 in 82 games). Removing his first two seasons to pump up his average, Tavares is almost exactly a point per game since then, 350 in 349. McDavid has 54 points in 48 games and unless injuries unforeseeably ravage his abilities that scoring rate is only going to increase.

I'd like to see more than a half season of games before I start saying McDavid is better than Tavares. Is Matthews better than Tavares already? What if McDavid doesn't progress from where he's at now (so he'll continue being a ~30 goal, PPG center)? Is that better than Tavares? I don't necessarily think so, I think it's very comparable to JT.

 

[Apotheosis]

I'd like to see more than a half season of games before I start saying McDavid is better than Tavares. Is Matthews better than Tavares already? What if McDavid doesn't progress from where he's at now (so he'll continue being a ~30 goal, PPG center)? Is that better than Tavares? I don't necessarily think so, I think it's very comparable to JT.

Dude, there's literally no comparison. McDavid generates more chances (dangerous ones at that) per game than JT could dream of. He's already better than JT.

 

[Aceboogie]

Gretzky today was just discussing he's best 19 year old he's ever seen. Better than Lemieux

 

[spacemunky]

Gretzky today was just discussing he's best 19 year old he's ever seen. Better than Lemieux

I like McDavid, but there's no way he's better than Mario.

 

[I am not exposed]

Gretzky today was just discussing he's best 19 year old he's ever seen. Better than Lemieux

Better than turris?

 

[Measles]

Gretzky today was just discussing he's best 19 year old he's ever seen. Better than Lemieux

He DOES work for the Edm organization in a PR role.

 

[authentic]

I like McDavid, but there's no way he's better than Mario.

At 19 he is better than Lemieux was at 19. The only 19 year olds that compare to McDavid historically are Crosby and Gretzky.

 

[Plural]

At 19 he is better than Lemieux was at 19. The only 19 year olds that compare to McDavid historically are Crosby and Gretzky.

Yeah. I think Crosby and Gretzky are two of the best 19 year olds in the history of the game. Lemieux was still bit raw in his rookie year (when he was 19). Crosby was already an established NHL star and won the Art and Hart. Gretzky played his first NHL season at the age 19 and won the Hart and tied Dionne for points lead (Dionne won because of goals are the tie-breaker).

If we go by the age criteria, McDavid has a clear cut chance to beat Lemieux for the 19 year old season. If we go by sophomore season, it's going to be harder task. But not impossible. Mario scored 141 points in 79 games that season. He beat out Coffey by 3 points and Kurri by 10. If McDavid wins the Art Ross I think we would have a good case for him over Lemieux in sophomore season too.

People often forget that it was Lemieux's 4th season where he actually "took off" to Gretzky level. Before that, he was amazing but not clearly better than the rest of the stars in the league.

 

[piteus]

McDavid might end up a better offensive player than Crosby. Or he might end up "just" being on Tavares' level. Let's stop acting like people can tell the future. I feel like McDavid will end up eclipsing Crosby offensively soon, but I don't know if he'll ever be as good as peak Crosby (or peak Ovechkin, for that matter) was. 2010-2011 Crosby would have probably finished around 50-55 goals and 120-125 points if not for the concussion issues, I don't know if McDavid will be able to get that many points in a season and I don't think he'll ever be as good of a goal scorer as Crosby is/was.

I think it's pretty obvious McJesus is at an elite level on offense. Better than Tavares. However, it is premature to say McJesus will be the better overall player than Crosby. That's an extremely high bar. But take nothing for granted ... even Crosby's concussion issues is looming large in his career. Who knows how McJesus' career flows. All I know is that he's already an elite offensive forward.

 

[The Panther]

Yeah. I think Crosby and Gretzky are two of the best 19 year olds in the history of the game.

Certainly two of the best, yes. (Maybe the two best.)

Lemieux was still bit raw in his rookie year (when he was 19).

I haven't gone through all the game logs, but I believe Mario started slow and then picked up speed a lot later in his rookie season. Around mid-season in 1984-85, Mario had only about 11 goals, but then ended up with 43.

Gretzky and Crosby also picked up speed as their rookie years went along, but they were closer to final form right from the off, as it were.

Crosby was already an established NHL star and won the Art and Hart. Gretzky played his first NHL season at the age 19 and won the Hart and tied Dionne for points lead (Dionne won because of goals are the tie-breaker).

You're referring to Crosby's second season...?

Crosby was 18 for his entire rookie season, making him younger (in first-year NHL, but not pro, which was Gretzky) than either Gretzky or Lemieux. So yes, he was 19 for his entire second season.

You refer to Gretzky "play(ing) his first NHL season at the age (of) 19". He turned 19 on the day of Edmonton's 47th game of the season (his 46th), which is to say he played 58% of his first-year games at the age of 18 (whereas Crosby played 100%).

Mario, as you allude to, was a bit older. He had already turned 19 six days before his first NHL season started, making him almost a full year older than Crosby, and 8.5 months older than Gretzky.

Lemieux was still bit raw in his rookie year (when he was 19). People often forget that it was Lemieux's 4th season where he actually "took off" to Gretzky level. Before that, he was amazing but not clearly better than the rest of the stars in the league.

I dunno, 141 points and 2nd in scoring in your second season in the NHL? I'd say that's close to "better than the rest of the stars in the League".


I really have no strong feeling about what McDavid's production will be this season. I just think there are too many variables still to be determined about Edmonton this year. If the second line starts supporting him and if a defenceman actually starts getting shots from the point on the P.P., I could see McDavid getting 100 points. If neither of those things happen and the goaltending regresses and Edmonton ends up near the bottom again, I can't see him getting more than 75 points. But I really have no idea.

 

[Plural]

I was just going by the age they were listed in their respective seasons. Gretzky was listed as 19 year old in his first NHL season. So was Lemieux. Crosby was listed as 18.

I do think that we should rather be looking at the number of seasons in the NHL rather than the age. Especially with guys who started as 18-20 years old.

So, by that criteria McDavid is in his sophomore season. Lemieux did 141 and was 2nd in scoring. His PPG was 1.78 and Coffey was at 1.75. Kurri was 1.68. The closest "non-Gretzky boosted" guy was Stastny at 1.61. So, Mario was the second best player in the league that year and would have won the Art Ross comfortably if Gretzky wasn't around. So what would McDavid need to do in order to be considered as equal? I'd say that an Art Ross win would be in that ball-park. 100 or so points is something that would probably be enough.

I don't think Lemieux was miles ahead of his peers in his sophomore season. But he likely was already the second best player in the world behind Gretzky.

As for the "best 19-year old" in the history of the NHL. Can't really think anyone above Gretzky and Crosby. Lindros was probably pretty close to that level in the games he played. But as we know, he only got to play 61 games.

 

[piteus]

I really have no strong feeling about what McDavid's production will be this season. I just think there are too many variables still to be determined about Edmonton this year. If the second line starts supporting him and if a defenceman actually starts getting shots from the point on the P.P., I could see McDavid getting 100 points. If neither of those things happen and the goaltending regresses and Edmonton ends up near the bottom again, I can't see him getting more than 75 points. But I really have no idea.

That's the point isn't it? If McJesus scores 100+ points and Edmonton doesn't sniff the playoffs, no one will care. IF he scores 80+ points but lead his team to the post season, everyone will take him seriously. People expect McJesus to lead Edmonton to the playoffs. We already know he's an elite offensive talent. What we don't know is if he's a leader this early in his career. That's what separates the great talents vs. the legends.