Any reason to think McDavid can beat Crosby this year?

[Plural]

That's the point isn't it? If McJesus scores 100+ points and Edmonton doesn't sniff the playoffs, no one will care. IF he scores 80+ points but lead his team to the post season, everyone will take him seriously. People expect McJesus to lead Edmonton to the playoffs. We already know he's an elite offensive talent. What we don't know is if he's a leader this early in his career. That's what separates the great talents vs. the legends.

That's a good point. And whether you think it's fair or not, that's how greatness is measured in the absolute top. McDavid is one of the premier offensive players in the world, but the success (or lack) of his team will also play a big part in the makeup of his career. People are waiting for McDavid to lead the Oilers back to the playoffs and how effective he can be in doing that will have a large impact on how his early career will be viewed.

 

[albertGQ]

Why is this considered Connor'a 19 year old season? He turns 20 in January. The same month Wayne turned 20 in his sophomore season. So if Wayne's sophomore season is considered his 20 year old season. Then this season is also Connor's 20 year old season.

 

[Plural]

Why is this considered Connor'a 19 year old season? He turns 20 in January. The same month Wayne turned 20 in his sophomore season. So if Wayne's sophomore season is considered his 20 year old season. Then this season is also Connor's 20 year old season.

I don't actually know. I was just going by the age listed in Hockey-Reference. Gretzky wasn't drafted, so maybe it's got something to do with that? Although that would seem odd.

 

[DearDiary]

Why are people discussing a few months difference in age? It means nothing. Ekblad is 20, but in reality is probably 30 years old.

 

[daver]

I was just going by the age they were listed in their respective seasons. Gretzky was listed as 19 year old in his first NHL season. So was Lemieux. Crosby was listed as 18.

I do think that we should rather be looking at the number of seasons in the NHL rather than the age. Especially with guys who started as 18-20 years old.

So, by that criteria McDavid is in his sophomore season. Lemieux did 141 and was 2nd in scoring. His PPG was 1.78 and Coffey was at 1.75. Kurri was 1.68. The closest "non-Gretzky boosted" guy was Stastny at 1.61. So, Mario was the second best player in the league that year and would have won the Art Ross comfortably if Gretzky wasn't around. So what would McDavid need to do in order to be considered as equal? I'd say that an Art Ross win would be in that ball-park. 100 or so points is something that would probably be enough.

I don't think Lemieux was miles ahead of his peers in his sophomore season. But he likely was already the second best player in the world behind Gretzky.

As for the "best 19-year old" in the history of the NHL. Can't really think anyone above Gretzky and Crosby. Lindros was probably pretty close to that level in the games he played. But as we know, he only got to play 61 games.

Which would also make him about equal with Crosby thru their 19 year old/sophomore seasons although the amount of support each player could be viewed as a tiebreaker.

 

[daver]

I don't actually know. I was just going by the age listed in Hockey-Reference. Gretzky wasn't drafted, so maybe it's got something to do with that? Although that would seem odd.

If you played in the same year you were drafted as an 18 year old, that is unusually considered your 18 year old season, the next year would be your 19 year old season, etc. regardless of when your birthdate is.

 

[JohnnyBerts]

All this talk aside.. McDavid looks better than Crosby ever did. I like Sid and have watched a ton of his games but Connor makes an impact every single time he touches the puck. Haven't seen that type of ability in a loooooong time.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

Why are people discussing a few months difference in age? It means nothing. Ekblad is 20, but in reality is probably 30 years old.

This made me think of this:

Aaron Ekblad is the Paul Rudd of hockey.

 

[Plural]

Which would also make him about equal with Crosby thru their 19 year old/sophomore seasons although the amount of support each player could be viewed as a tiebreaker.

Pretty close to equal. BTW, which team is worse? Pens did make the playoffs so maybe Crosby had stronger team?

 

[daver]

All this talk aside.. McDavid looks better than Crosby ever did. I like Sid and have watched a ton of his games but Connor makes an impact every single time he touches the puck. Haven't seen that type of ability in a loooooong time.

It will be interesting to see if this translates to production that matches your opinion. So far he hasn't done anything that places him equal to, let alone above, Crosby at the same age.

 

[daver]

Pretty close to equal. BTW, which team is worse? Pens did make the playoffs so maybe Crosby had stronger team?

Looking at offensive support by the rest of the team. In their rookie seasons, based on PPGs, Crosby arguably had less support from his team.

 

[Rals]

Any reason to think otherwise?

 

[Plural]

It will be interesting to see if this translates to production that matches your opinion. So far he hasn't done anything that places him equal to, let alone above, Crosby at the same age.

I'd say his rookie season was on the same level but cut short. So far, McDavid has played all his NHL career on the same level as Crosby started his.

 

[Plural]

Looking at offensive support by the rest of the team. In their rookie seasons, based on PPGs, Crosby arguably had less support from his team.

I wouldn't call that a significant difference. Nothing in the scale that would have any kind of tiebreaker effect. Both played in terrible teams. Where did the Pens finish in the standings compared to Oilers?

 

[Draw Me a McElephant]

It will be interesting to see if this translates to production that matches your opinion. So far he hasn't done anything that places him equal to, let alone above, Crosby at the same age.

I think this is the big question. Based on raw talent, I think McDavid might be second only to Mario, however, I still this it is possible his style may not translate as well to the modern NHL as someone like Crosby. Put Connor in the 80's or early 90's and I bet he'd be up there with Gretzky and Mario because he is almost unstoppable in open ice, but the modern game is an ultra defensive style of game where every team traps, most of the goals are scored on deflections and rebounds, and where most of the game is played in the corners. As ridiculous as McDavid's open ice talents are, he doesn't dominate in the tight spots the way Crosby did/does. The question will be whether pure talent can overcome the current boring style of hockey. It would be awfully sad for the game if it cannot.

 

[daver]

I'd say his rookie season was on the same level but cut short. So far, McDavid has played all his NHL career on the same level as Crosby started his.

IDK, PPGs tend to go down as the season goes on. If he equals Crosby this year, then your statement is more acceptable.

 

[daver]

I wouldn't call that a significant difference. Nothing in the scale that would have any kind of tiebreaker effect. Both played in terrible teams. Where did the Pens finish in the standings compared to Oilers?

I think it is significant when you stand apart more from your teammates in production. I.e Player A contributes to 40% of their team's offence vs. Player B's 30%.

 

[Plural]

IDK, PPGs tend to go down as the season goes on. If he equals Crosby this year, then your statement is more acceptable.

That's true. We'll just have to wait and see. But how much would we reasonably assume it drops? He was 3rd in PPG, right? Crosby was 6th. How much would McDavid needed to have regressed in order to drop to 7th? Or maybe we should go even low as 10th. Since there is nlt massive difference between 6th and say, 8th. Had McDavid finished 8th I think one could argue them on the same level.

I'm sure it's more reasonable to assume that McDavid stays at least 6-8 which would in return mean he was at the same level.

But his season was short. So I don't give hin the same props as Crosby got. But not because I would expect him to do worse. But simply because there is no value in games missed.

 

[daver]

I think this is the big question. Based on raw talent, I think McDavid might be second only to Mario, however, I still this it is possible his style may not translate as well to the modern NHL as someone like Crosby. Put Connor in the 80's or early 90's and I bet he'd be up there with Gretzky and Mario because he is almost unstoppable in open ice, but the modern game is an ultra defensive style of game where every team traps, most of the goals are scored on deflections and rebounds, and where most of the game is played in the corners. As ridiculous as McDavid's open ice talents are, he doesn't dominate in the tight spots the way Crosby did/does. The question will be whether pure talent can overcome the current boring style of hockey. It would be awfully sad for the game if it cannot.

The tone I was going for was let's slow down on the "McDavid is already better than Crosby ever was" talk was until he puts up the points to prove it. McDavid had plenty of opportunity to outshine Crosby in the CHL but failed to do so.

 

[Plural]

I think it is significant when you stand apart more from your teammates in production. I.e Player A contributes to 40% of their team's offence vs. Player B's 30%.

What's the difference in this case. Also, how did their teams fare in the standings.

Nevertheless, I don't think you are going to find a lot of support for the idea that Crosby should get the tiebreaker due to team-strength. In fact, I would wager most give the nod to McDavid if anything.

 

[Plural]

BTW, any update on Sid? If he is going to miss 10 games he's facing an uphill battle. Sucks cause I think he was the favorite to sweep the personal awards. I thought he has the chance to put together his best season thus far.

 

[Perfect_Drug]

The tone I was going for was let's slow down on the "McDavid is already better than Crosby ever was" talk was until he puts up the points to prove it. McDavid had plenty of opportunity to outshine Crosby in the CHL but failed to do so.

?

How so? Crosby played in a waaay easier league against far inferior players and lit them up like christmas. There's nobody that was in the top 20 scoring from the Q that's even in the NHL.

McDavid put up ridiculous numbers against several players who are now playing in the NHL.

 

[daver]

That's true. We'll just have to wait and see. But how much would we reasonably assume it drops? He was 3rd in PPG, right? Crosby was 6th. How much would McDavid needed to have regressed in order to drop to 7th? Or maybe we should go even low as 10th. Since there is nlt massive difference between 6th and say, 8th. Had McDavid finished 8th I think one could argue them on the same level.

I'm sure it's more reasonable to assume that McDavid stays at least 6-8 which would in return mean he was at the same level.

If this did play out, then the question of how much each player contributed to his team's offense and strength of linemates would come into play.

 

[daver]

What's the difference in this case. Also, how did their teams fare in the standings.

Nevertheless, I don't think you are going to find a lot of support for the idea that Crosby should get the tiebreaker due to team-strength. In fact, I would wager most give the nod to McDavid if anything.

Crosby was 42%, McDavid was a DNF.

 

[Plural]

If this did play out, then the question of how much each player contributed to his team's offense and strength of linemates would come into play.

Yeah, but we would be talking about a minor difference that wouldn't give any concrete answer one way or another. We don't compare linemates with 5th and 7th player in PPG vigorously. Maybe someone makes the decision based on linemates. Some would side with Crosby and some with McDavid. Point being, we wouldn't likely find anything resembling consensus.

But we don't have to do it, since Crosby actually played his whole season.

But I'll say that McDavid is doing something that is rivaling Crosby. Which is awesome.