Any Habs Jersey's that should NOT have been retired?

[optimus2861]

Well it's probably better if you separate Gainey the player from Gainey the GM. Gainey the player was just great and important to have. Gainey the GM wasn't awful. And at first gave the respectability to the organization that it has lost because of Corey, Houle and Co. And towards the end, whatever the reasons, he totally lost it and didn't make us progress.

I always hated to think it, but Gainey-the-GM never seemed to be quite the same after his daughter's tragic death.

 

[Habs]

I always hated to think it, but Gainey-the-GM never seemed to be quite the same after his daughter's tragic death.

Gainey was a pre-cap GM, couldn't build a team based on a salary structure.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

Well it's probably better if you separate Gainey the player from Gainey the GM. Gainey the player was just great and important to have. Gainey the GM wasn't awful. And at first gave the respectability to the organization that it has lost because of Corey, Houle and Co. And towards the end, whatever the reasons, he totally lost it and didn't make us progress. So you could call him anyway you want, but again, when it's time to acknowledge Gainey the player, he wasn't a sideshow far from it. And frankly, I'm pretty sure that he played no part in having his own jersey retire and I doubt it was his idea to have all those numbers being retired.

I do acknowledge it, I wish I could've seen him play - I actually love defensive players. My issue is that he's aka Teflon Bob, criticism won't stick on him, ever.

There's always excuses when it comes to Gainey: Gauthier was the mastermind, or after his daughter's tragic death he wasn't really present, or Boivin called the shots with the jersey retirements. So what did Bob even do, then? Sat on his hands and presided over ~5ish years of doing nothing at all.

 

[ClasslessGuy]

I wish they would've retire the 1 but for the fans! Like Minnesota did....

 

[Saintpatrick*]

All except 4, 7 and 9 should be fair game. Maybe 10. The 70's dynasty certainly didn't need seven retired jerseys.

I beg to differ. That 70's team was the best team ever assembled.

Roy
Although a fan favorite, his career was split between here and Colorado. He desrves to be a HHOFer and and the accolades he gets.
In my humble opinion he does not belong in the rafters, he chose to leave(period).

Roy practically revolutionized the goalie position with the butterfly stance with the help of François Allaire and inspired a generation of young goalies. He was posting save percentages over .900 when no one in the league at the time was hitting that number. I won't get into the whole fiasco why he left but he carried two teams on his back to win the '86 and '93 cups. He was our only star and the face of the franchise during the time he played with the Habs. He deserved to have his number retired regardless of how he left the team.

 

[AntonCH]

I do acknowledge it, I wish I could've seen him play - I actually love defensive players. My issue is that he's aka Teflon Bob, criticism won't stick on him, ever.

There's always excuses when it comes to Gainey: Gauthier was the mastermind, or after his daughter's tragic death he wasn't really present, or Boivin called the shots with the jersey retirements. So what did Bob even do, then? Sat on his hands and presided over ~5ish years of doing nothing at all.

In case you missed it his jersey was retired as a player
further to that as you know he did not make the call on his own jersey
As for Gainey the player there were NEVER any excuses - he was drafted by Pollack as a difference maker; and yeah you should've seen him play.

Now for the GM part, he tried to resign Gillett said no and got him an ast GM. I don't know if you have kids or not but its really not hard to imagine the struggle he would've had after the tragic death of his daughter.
In case you're wondering, yes, I've met the man on several occasions during the early to mid eighties.
Is he an untouchable - No
But jersey retirements are about the player, who he was and what he brought. How the Gm aspect rolled into the conversation amazes me

 

[Raimu]

Sorry in advance for the thread necromancy. I figured the following rant was a bit off-topic for the Noah Juulsen thread and didn't want to make a brand new thread just for it.


Anyway, I know this is a very minor thing to be annoyed about, but it bothers me that Noah Juulsen (or anybody else) won't get to wear the number 3 ever in Montreal.

With all due respect to Emile Bouchard, the decision to retire the number 3 came 53 years after he played his final game. How many people are old enough to have seen him play and remember it? You wanna honor the guy by waiting 53 years to retire his number, during which time you let:

Brian Engblom
Sylvan Lefebvre
Ric Nattress
Raitis Ivanans
Scott Sandelin
Rick wilson
Dale Hoganson
Robert Dirk
Jean Gauthier
Zarley Zalapski
David Wilkie

And the last player to wear it: Ryan O'Byrne. Yea, some effin' honor you're giving this guy. Have your number 50+ years later, after it's been passed around like a cheap hooker to any joe who barely made the team who would take it.

If you really wanted his number retired why wasn't that decision made by the mans peers at the time? Sometime within 5-10 years of his retirement?

Like I said before, this isn't a slight against the player, it's a slight against the morons who are making the decisions to "honor" the guy.

These number retirement ceremonies are just a form of self-congratulating ************. We get it, the Habs were good in the 50's and 70's. That's no reason to have the team look like a football team on the ice. (apparently self-pleasure is deserving of a filter <.<)

./rant

 

[Hackett]

Sorry in advance for the thread necromancy. I figured the following rant was a bit off-topic for the Noah Juulsen thread and didn't want to make a brand new thread just for it.


Anyway, I know this is a very minor thing to be annoyed about, but it bothers me that Noah Juulsen (or anybody else) won't get to wear the number 3 ever in Montreal.

With all due respect to Emile Bouchard, the decision to retire the number 3 came 53 years after he played his final game. How many people are old enough to have seen him play and remember it? You wanna honor the guy by waiting 53 years to retire his number, during which time you let:

Brian Engblom
Sylvan Lefebvre
Ric Nattress
Raitis Ivanans
Scott Sandelin
Rick wilson
Dale Hoganson
Robert Dirk
Jean Gauthier
Zarley Zalapski
David Wilkie

And the last player to wear it: Ryan O'Byrne. Yea, some effin' honor you're giving this guy. Have your number 50+ years later, after it's been passed around like a cheap hooker to any joe who barely made the team who would take it.

If you really wanted his number retired why wasn't that decision made by the mans peers at the time? Sometime within 5-10 years of his retirement?

Like I said before, this isn't a slight against the player, it's a slight against the morons who are making the decisions to "honor" the guy.

These number retirement ceremonies are just a form of self-congratulating ************. We get it, the Habs were good in the 50's and 70's. That's no reason to have the team look like a football team on the ice. (apparently self-pleasure is deserving of a filter <.<)

./rant

I see your point regarding the retirement of bouchard, but the "football numbers" don't bother me much. Its the players and how good they are that make the numbers cool.

 

[General Fanager]

Roy was too soon.....

 

[General Fanager]

I do acknowledge it, I wish I could've seen him play - I actually love defensive players. My issue is that he's aka Teflon Bob, criticism won't stick on him, ever.

There's always excuses when it comes to Gainey: Gauthier was the mastermind, or after his daughter's tragic death he wasn't really present, or Boivin called the shots with the jersey retirements. So what did Bob even do, then? Sat on his hands and presided over ~5ish years of doing nothing at all.

I am old enough to have seen him play. I am also able to separate the player and the GM. His number is exactly where it belongs.....,..

He is the best defensive forward ever.......ever.

 

[FerrisRox]

"Gainey basically invented the role of a defensive centre in the NHL and he was the best at it EVER. Not sure how his number isn't retired after his hall of fame career."

Gainet played left wing….

"Viktor Tikhonov called him the best player on the planet.â€

No, he called him the best ‘two-way’ player in the game.

Sorry, I am old enough to remember.

To be specific, he said he was "the best all around player in the world."

 

[Video Coach]

Hard to really argue any of these but with the ridiculously rich history maybe they could have done a 2 tier system with some numbers retired and some honoured.

Retired
1 - Plante
2 - Harvey
4 - Beliveau
7 - Morenz
9 - Richard
10 - Lafleur

Honoured
3 - Bouchard
5 - Geoffrion
5 - Lapointe
12 - Moore
12 - Cournoyer
16 - Richard
18 - Savard
19 - Robinson
23 - Gainey
29 - Dryden
33 - Roy

I could see Roy, Dryden and Geoffrion being retired as well. Again, so hard to say, all of these guys were unbelievable.

 

[ChemiseBleuHonnete]

I'm not too well versed in the history of the Montreal Canadiens, but I'm just wondering if any of the numbers shouldn't have been retired in retrospect.

Did the franchise just over do it, or does each player with a retired numbers truly deserve it?

Totally not deserved imo :
Bouchard
Cournoyer
Gainey

Arguable :
Geoffrion

 

[AntonCH]

33
they retired the body of work
not what he did here
a mistake

 

[Seb]

As long as they retire #11 I couldn't care less about the others.

 

[AntonCH]

As long as they retire #11 I couldn't care less about the others.

ring of honor only

to put things in perspective compare him to Beliveau; center, long serving captain etc
how does koivu stack up with the rest of the comparables?

 

[MisterY]

I don't see any problem with any retired number (except maybe Dryden) considering the rich history of the franchise.

Especially if you look at other teams retired numbers... (Colorado retired Raymond Bourque's number even if he played ther for only one season and a half! Ridiculous...).

As for the Habs, I would put a banner for Scotty Bowman.

 

[Brainiac]

7 numbers retired before 1995. And these are the legends: the Richards, Morenz, Lafleur, Béliveau etc. I'd say these 7 are untouchable.

11 numbers retired after that. Including 10 in the 2005-09 period. They certainly over did it a little bit. Dryden and Roy: no questions, they belong there. After that, it gets a little messy, IMO. Lots of guys look good because they played their whole career on a powerhouse. That tends to inflate the numbers a bit.

I'd say Gainey has no business there. Butch Bouchard, I'm on the fence, but wouldn't mind if his jersey is not retired. Cournoyer: out.

Post 2005 lock-out, the Habs were all about marketing, marketing and marketing. Anything to fill the Bell Center and sell jerseys.

 

[La Grosse Tendresse]

As long as they retire #11 I couldn't care less about the others.

#11was a great person, but he was a mediocre captain and a very forgettable player.

 

[TRG]

Roy was too soon.....

Yes but it was to celebrate the centennial which he played a role in. Circumstances make it acceptable.

 

[Brainiac]

As long as they retire #11 I couldn't care less about the others.

Joking, I hope? Koivu was very good, but the team unfortunately didn't do much during his tenure. And he didn't win any hardware. And even when they had some talent, the team was still a mess.

From now on, the only ones I can see having their jersey eventually retired are Price and Subban. But it's way too soon to talk about that. Need a cup or two and some more hardware.

 

[tinyzombies]

#11was a great person, but he was a mediocre captain and a very forgettable player.

He was an awesome captain. Many playoff upsets when he was captain. He never had any linemates was the problem (other than the injuries). He should not have a retired number, of course.

Dryden I always thought was overrated. Put him on the Leafs and his career might have ended in 1974.

Bouchard and Cournoyer should not be retired. Lapointe is borderline, but I say no. Moore borderline also, but I would say no.

Robinson I always thought was overrated. Savard carried him defensively and he often did not put in much effort and refused to be physical.

I also think Henri is borderline, but can't argue with all those Cups.

Savard had a solid career, he was the cornerstone of that defense along with Lapointe. Robinson was more freelance, but did provide physicality in the Cup years.

Roy gets overrated too. His numbers came in front of a defensive team and he had many off years. He did win two Cups almost by himself tho, so he's in.

Lach...solid career, but I dunno.

These guys are definitely second tier, along with Gainey imo (who was erroneously called the best player in the world by the Russians) to the superstars: Morenz, Harvey, Rocket, Beliveau, Lafleur, Plante.

Shouldn't Newsy Lalonde's #4 be retired? Hainsworth? Durnan? Steve SHUTT???

 

[ottawa]

Bobby Mikey Gainey

 

[Never]

33
they retired the body of work
not what he did here
a mistake

Took two teams to the Cup that had no business being there. Won the Conn Smythe both years. He deserved it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I wish we just did the leafs thing, sucks that all those great numbers can't be used any more.

Yeah, I wish we could watch Emelin skate around wearing number ten...

Think about it.

All except 4, 7 and 9 should be fair game. Maybe 10.

You're saying maybe to Guy Lafleur?

Ummm, his number is retired. Controversially, while he was GM.

He's also in the HOF.

... and you left out that he also played LW, not center.


And... this thread is like a year old. What the hell is it doing back again?