Any Habs Jersey's that should NOT have been retired?
- Thread starter Yozzy
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MXD
Original #4
- Oct 27, 2005
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Raimu
That weird Dragon girl
Honestly in my opinion: None of them should be retired.
I am fine with honoring a player with a banner, but I think it's a much better tribute to have your number flying around on the ice alive and scoring goals than gathering dust in the rafters.
One of the very few things I agree with the Maple Leafs on.
I am fine with honoring a player with a banner, but I think it's a much better tribute to have your number flying around on the ice alive and scoring goals than gathering dust in the rafters.
One of the very few things I agree with the Maple Leafs on.
WhiskeySeven*
Expect the expected
- Jun 17, 2007
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That one quote by Tikhonov is parroted 24/7 in defense of Sideshow Bob.
I just can't get over how gaudy it is to be the VP of hockey ops and GM while you retire your own number - one that is definitely among the lower-tier of retired Habs numbers. I don't understand the cult around Gainey.
He was lucky to play on such a stacked team and he wasn't good enough for the top6. Sure he was good defensively, and I definitely believe that he was a great leader, etc. Not a fan of the retired number, now how it was done, not during the blitz of retired numbers during the dark period. Ugh.
Not that he chose to leave but that he's legendary for being a great goalie for the Avs, more than anything. I don't understand why we retired his number.
You can only raise this question if you didn't see any of these players play. Cournoyer? Only the best moves in hockey since Richard, the dominant player at his position and, in the 1973 playoffs, the one who set the record for the most goals in the playoffs, and won the Conn Smythe trophy, too. Gainey? The man who invented modern defensive forward play; had a whole trophy, the Selke, invented just to honor his kind.Roy? You're kidding, right? Only the inventor of contemporary goal-tending practice, and the dominant player on two Stanley Cup winners...
The seventies team was the single greatest hockey team ever assembled in the NHl, with only the fifties Habs and the eighties Oilers left over in the conversation. Honoring those players is honoring the unique Montreal tradition. It's the reason you become a Montreal Canadiens fan. If you have problems with it, go root for the Predators or the Flyers or the Kings or somebody.
The seventies team was the single greatest hockey team ever assembled in the NHl, with only the fifties Habs and the eighties Oilers left over in the conversation. Honoring those players is honoring the unique Montreal tradition. It's the reason you become a Montreal Canadiens fan. If you have problems with it, go root for the Predators or the Flyers or the Kings or somebody.
groovejuice
Without deviation progress is not possible
With all due respect to your unnatural hate of Gainey, did you ever see him play?
The Selke award was created specifically for Gainey. There was no way for the hockey writers (NHL)
to recognize his contribution within the confines of existing awards.
Gainey did for defensive forwards what Orr did for offensive defensemen. This, IMO, is indisputable.
W7, I'm not thrilled about his number retirement during his tenure as GM. I'm pretty sure it wasn't his idea. Regardless, it's completely deserving. Gainey redefined the role of a "bottom six" player into an MVP position. He was dominant against every top line in the league, and internationally.
Gainey was a prototypical player, for which, in my opinion, has never been matched.
groovejuice
Without deviation progress is not possible
Really? It's out of a combination of guilt and respect. Guilt for the treatment he received and respect for the two Cups we NEVER could have won without him.
The fact you call him sideshow Bob shows you either have very little knowledge of hockey and his importance to this Habs or you really can't separate your hate from his as the team's GM and his career as a player.
The dude was legendary for his play as a defensive forward, his leadership and his determination. He once separated both shoulders in a game, had them popped back in and returned to finnish the game.
optimus2861
Registered User
Agreed, with one exception: #7. Howie Morenz died as an active player with the Canadiens, as a result (if indirectly) of an on-ice injury, and that's the kind of thing that does warrant a permanent number retirement. Everyone else's number should be fair game. Admittedly after all this time it would take some pretty big brass ones to dare put #9 on your back.
dutchy29
Registered User
we only retire Hall of Famers while other teams retire Ken Daneyko, Trevor Linden, Adam Graves, Thomas Steen.
No offense to these hockey players, you need to be a great athlete obviously to make it in the NHL, but These players do not have even close to the numbers to have a jersey retired, Linden didn't even score 20 goals with the Canucks, come on.
dutchy29
Registered User
I also believe that you never watched him play, I know other people who look at stats and make judgement, but any team in history would be lucky to have a player of Gainey's skill playing for their team, Literally once you had a lead of any sorts, you could sit back in your seat and when Gainey's line came on, you knew you were not getting scored on. I mean you could sing Na na na na, hey hey hey goodbye for the rest of the game because the win was locked up. We just haven't seen many like him since.
Kimota
ROY DU NORD!!!
Like I said in another thread, Habs should have stuck only with an elite few:
Morenz(best player of his generation)
Rocket(the league's savior, Habs hero)
Plante(best goalie, saved the Habs when he came in)
Beliveau(our best forward ever, second only to Howe as best player of his time)
Lafleur(the best player of the 70s Dynasty, league's best scorer at the time)
Harvey(best NHL D ever after Orr)
Morenz(best player of his generation)
Rocket(the league's savior, Habs hero)
Plante(best goalie, saved the Habs when he came in)
Beliveau(our best forward ever, second only to Howe as best player of his time)
Lafleur(the best player of the 70s Dynasty, league's best scorer at the time)
Harvey(best NHL D ever after Orr)
Lafleur, Roy, H.Richard, Morenz, M.Richard, Harvey, Belliveau should be retired, no one else.
The guys listed transcended the sport and made the Habs a religion in Quebec and were all the very best in their respected positions for decades. The rest were just good players on a very good team.
Goalies like Plante and Dryden are debatable as I never seen them play, but i know they were on very good teams, so not sure how much was due to their play....?
The guys listed transcended the sport and made the Habs a religion in Quebec and were all the very best in their respected positions for decades. The rest were just good players on a very good team.
Goalies like Plante and Dryden are debatable as I never seen them play, but i know they were on very good teams, so not sure how much was due to their play....?
Whitesnake
If you rebuild, they will come.
- Jan 5, 2003
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I pretty much agree with you. You could probalby make a case for Robinson and Plante. BUt in the end, the whole idea to retire a jersey is, yes, to recognize the great work they made. But also it has to be about "Who it just doesn't make sense to see his number being worn by somebody else". It would have made NO sense to see Lafleur jersey still on the ice today. Or Rocket, or Béliveau etc. Somehow though, nobody cared when John Chabot or Ron Flockhart wore Dryden's number. Was it because he wasn't a goalie? Maybe. Yet....what if a goalie had decided to wore #4....it STILL would have made no sense.
Anyway, I guess we could go on and on about it. LIke some people said, it makes sense to have more than everybody else since we've been the most decorated franchise and all. Yet, we could have made a difference between retiring a number and honoring a player.
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Whitesnake
If you rebuild, they will come.
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I watched him play. A lot. Frankly, I have no idea how's that relevant. I loved him as a player. A great 2-way player. But we're talking about retiring a jersey. Most people think it's a greater honour to have your jersey being retired by the Montreal Canadiens than to enter the Hockey Hall of fame. And they are not wrong. Why? 'Cause obviously, there are way more players that entered that HHOF than they had their jersey being retired. And as great Gainey was, nobody would have cared if his number would have been worn again. Which is absolutely in no relation as to how we'd feel if Lafleur, Rocket or Béliveau's numbers would still be in circulation today.
And frankly, I think that the jersey retirements have some kind of ulterior motives. That team was not good enough for all those years that they had to compensate with what we were rather than what we are and would be. The fact that they waited so long to honour Geoffrion made me sick. If it was that obvious, it should have been done WAY sooner. The fact that one of the most famous trio in the history of hockey was the big three and nobody thought of honoring those 3 guys around the same time is stupid. If there was no pressure to honour Lapointe, I would bet that it would have never happened. And if it was never their intention to do so, they should have just honored 1 guy, Robinson, which for me seems to be the most complete of that great trio. And if it's solely with numbers to explain Cournoyer and others, how the heck is Shutt and Lemaire still not up there? Why is it even a discussion? For me, I would not have those guys there. They did represent GREAT players. But nobody cares now that Weise has Shutt number. And nobody gives a rat's ass if one day McCarron might very well be wearing Lemaire's number. Why? Because the Montreal Canadiens do retire numbers because it shouldn't make sense to see that number still in circulation.
My take. You don't agree? Fine with me. Still my opinion.
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
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I just can't accept anyone else donning number 10 or 19 or 7 or 9 or 4 or 2 or 1 or 33...
Nothing wrong with retiring numbers. We won't be running out of them any time soon either. There are 85 other numbers to choose from.
Lafleurs Guy
Guuuuuuuy!
- Jul 20, 2007
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WhiskeySeven*
Expect the expected
- Jun 17, 2007
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This is what I mean when I criticize Gainey's retirement - it seems as though it was more politically motivated than anything and also, he's just not as legendary a figure as the other numbers. Would we EVER see accept another #4? #9? #10? No, of course not. #23 just didn't stand out in our history as much as some other players - it doesn't matter how much of a leader he was, to get your number retired you have to standout and be exceptional in MANY aspects and regards.
And I won't refuse to stop calling him Sideshow Bob because Sideshow Bob was the GM when he retired his own jersey number and approved the parade of retired numbers in lieu of building a consistent, winning organization. Sideshow Bob kept declaring X-year plans, only to blow it all up. Sideshow Bob locked is into Gomez and Gionta's contracts and then jumped ship 6 months into a 5 year term. I'll never forgive Sideshow Bob.
Whitesnake
If you rebuild, they will come.
- Jan 5, 2003
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Well it's probably better if you separate Gainey the player from Gainey the GM. Gainey the player was just great and important to have. Gainey the GM wasn't awful. And at first gave the respectability to the organization that it has lost because of Corey, Houle and Co. And towards the end, whatever the reasons, he totally lost it and didn't make us progress. So you could call him anyway you want, but again, when it's time to acknowledge Gainey the player, he wasn't a sideshow far from it. And frankly, I'm pretty sure that he played no part in having his own jersey retire and I doubt it was his idea to have all those numbers being retired.
InglewoodJack
Registered User
Sideshow Bob still helped the team win more than one cup, so it's whatever. He was a great player, a bad manager.
...we should be proud to have had soo many greats in the game...personally, I think we have a few more that should be hanging from the rafters...Durnan, Blake, Koivu, Shutt...
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