Anti-KHL Discourse

[Atas2000]

why haven't they signed transfer agreements with other leagues that guarantee bigger money than NHL transfers for every players?

I find it apretty typical european double standards, so popular nowadays, seemingly not only in politics.

As much as I know the KHL teams pay pretty hefty transfer fees to the european teams for players with or wothout some formal agreement(Nieminen to AkBars for 500K USD. You can sign a couple of good players for that money).

While you of course gladly reinforce the NHL with your palyers for free.

Stay with the facts.

Plus there was the whole CHL thing where the KHL wanted to dictate which clubs they were going to send while also trying to block clubs from other leagues from taking part (potential KHL candidate teams). That rubbed off a lot clubs the wrong way.

Evidence? Or just again an "Russia - bad, we - good" stuff?

 

[Atas2000]

Some people really have to calm down.

KHL never will be able to compete for players or market share with the NHL. That's for sure. And I also think it's not their aim.

The KHL already competes for players. Of course it's not even a close thing now, but as soon as the NHL fails in soem way there is a KHL gain. Without the KHL Kovalchuk, Radulov, Jagr or even Sobotka plaing in Russia wasn't an option.

The KHL and the NHL cover completely unconnected markets. There will never be a competition there.

What about arrogance? The arrogance the Russians and the KHL show towards the other European hockey leagues is far worse than anything that comes from the NHL towards KHL.

Words. No evidence. Where is that "arrogance"? I can't see it. Europeans always fear Russia and they never can live with the fact Russia is strong in any way. That's the true root of it. That's where all the russophobia and lies about Russsia come from. The problem lies with the Europeans. There is no wrong attitude on the russian side whatsoever.

If Russians wouldn't completely overpay regular players and throw out millions of dollars every year for a product not much better than the rest of Europe offers, nobody would even talk about that league outside of Russia and Belarus.

Are you a marxist? That's capitalism. If a russian league is able and willing to through whatever money they want at players, they are free to do so.

The product is not much better? The players think diffrent. Yes, they are all payed by Putin personally to say so, right?

Whether you like it or not, to put it plain an simple, in all those years the DEL for example wasn't able to create a watchable product. The level of hockey I know fairly well is just bad. I wouldn't watch it. Don't tell me it's comparable to the KHL. It's not.

former Soviet occupied areas .

That's pretty telling. Hate on.

 

[Ryker]

Whether you like it or not, to put it plain an simple, in all those years the DEL for example wasn't able to create a watchable product. The level of hockey I know fairly well is just bad. I wouldn't watch it. Don't tell me it's comparable to the KHL. It's not.

You must not be a hockey fan then if you wouldn't watch it. DEL provides for good hockey, but, yeah, it's not at the level of KHL. Still, for hockey fans living in Germany, I don't see how it wouldn't be their first choice (possibly competing for attention with the NHL).

It's funny, though, that a lot of Russian posters here seem to be offended when North Americans deride or just don't care about the KHL, and yet you're doing the same thing with DEL. I think this is the arrogance Vicente was talking about. Of course not everyone is like you, so he shouldn't have generalized, but the point remains.

I do agree that the Russians can throw whatever money they want at the players, it's their prerogative. As a fan of Russian hockey, I don't really mind it all that much, since it's good that the Russian league thereby gets more recognition. I only mind the plucking of teams from their leagues. With the players going elsewhere, that's natural and can't really be stopped entirely.

 

[alce*]

It's funny, though, that a lot of Russian posters here seem to be offended when North Americans deride or just don't care about the KHL, and yet you're doing the same thing with DEL. I think this is the arrogance Vicente was talking about. Of course not everyone is like you, so he shouldn't have generalized, but the point remains.

Would you mind please to give me at least three names from these "a lot of Russians"? Because I can't even remember two such examples. Mostly Russian posters here are either understanding the reasons why KHL is irrelevant for north Americans or as in my case don't give a **** about what those Americans think.

 

[Jussi]

I find it apretty typical european double standards, so popular nowadays, seemingly not only in politics.

As much as I know the KHL teams pay pretty hefty transfer fees to the european teams for players with or wothout some formal agreement(Nieminen to AkBars for 500K USD. You can sign a couple of good players for that money).

While you of course gladly reinforce the NHL with your palyers for free.

Stay with the facts.

You might want to stay with facts. It's been well documented over the past year or two that any players with a slightest possibility of playing in KHL or a somewhat capable agent will want a KHL clause in his contract that guarantees him a either a cheap (100K euro) or free exit if it happens before a set date. E.g Acevedo managed to sign with TPS Turku in 2013 instead of re-signing with Lukko Rauma because TPS offered him that KHL clause, which he used and TPS got no money. Jarmo Kekäläinen said it while he was still Jokerit GM that "every player wants that KHL clause, if you don't offer one, someone else will". It's mostly players who have a career year or never expected to play in HKL that might not have one. Even Juha-Matti Aaltonen had one with Kärpät that would have guaranteed him free exit during the Karjala Tournament break. Of course his rights were still with the previous club and nothing came to fruition. Of course your kind and vorky tried to put the blame on clubs for giving this clauses but there's nothing they can do since it's a buyer's market and it'd be against EU/domestic labor laws to try and stop them.

Evidence? Or just again an "Russia - bad, we - good" stuff?

It was well documented in the Finnish press at the time, go search the CHL threads.

 

[Jussi]

It's funny, though, that a lot of Russian posters here seem to be offended when North Americans deride or just don't care about the KHL, and yet you're doing the same thing with DEL. I think this is the arrogance Vicente was talking about. Of course not everyone is like you, so he shouldn't have generalized, but the point remains.

I do agree that the Russians can throw whatever money they want at the players, it's their prerogative. As a fan of Russian hockey, I don't really mind it all that much, since it's good that the Russian league thereby gets more recognition. I only mind the plucking of teams from their leagues. With the players going elsewhere, that's natural and can't really be stopped entirely.

Would you mind please to give me at least three names from these "a lot of Russians"? Because I can't even remember two such examples. Mostly Russian posters here are either understanding the reasons why KHL is irrelevant for north Americans or as in my case don't give a **** about what those Americans think.

I think the bolded part demonstrates the attitude perfectly. Or better, when ever some one says even remotely critical of KHL, he/she is automatically accused of being a Russia hater without providing any evidence, just repeating "every one knows you hate the KHL".

 

[alce*]

I think the bolded part demonstrates the attitude perfectly. Or better, when ever some one says even remotely critical of KHL, he/she is automatically accused of being a Russia hater without providing any evidence, just repeating "every one knows you hate the KHL".

What's problem with that attitude? Do you care about what people of Somali think of Finnish football? No? Then what's wrong with me not caring about what those people think about KHL? Their opinion is completely irrelevant for KHL or future of KHL. I'm sure that they also don't give a **** about what I'm thinking about NHL for example.

 

[Ryker]

Would you mind please to give me at least three names from these "a lot of Russians"? Because I can't even remember two such examples. Mostly Russian posters here are either understanding the reasons why KHL is irrelevant for north Americans or as in my case don't give a **** about what those Americans think.

Other than loppa and Atas2000, I can't give you any other specific examples right now. It's just an impression I got by participating on these boards over the past years, and there have been users that I haven't seen post in a while who were giving off this sentiment. But you can change "a lot" to "some", if you want. What Jussi mentions also occurs on a somewhat regular basis, if only by the same posters over and over again.

Or better, when ever some one says even remotely critical of KHL, he/she is automatically accused of being a Russia hater without providing any evidence, just repeating "every one knows you hate the KHL".

 

[alce*]

Other than loppa and Atas2000, I can't give you any other specific examples right now. It's just an impression I got by participating on these boards over the past years, and there have been users that I haven't seen post in a while who were giving off this sentiment. But you can change "a lot" to "some", if you want. What Jussi mentions also occurs on a somewhat regular basis, if only by the same posters over and over again.

As far as I know loppa isn't Russian. So your generalization about Russian posters seems to be based on posts of one man. It's a little unconvincing, don't you think?

 

[Urbanskog]

Europeans always fear Russia and they never can live with the fact Russia is strong in any way. That's the true root of it. That's where all the russophobia and lies about Russsia come from. The problem lies with the Europeans. There is no wrong attitude on the russian side whatsoever.

So everything that criticizes the league gets labelled as "Russophobia"? Okay.

 

[od71]

all the same talks never end year in year out

 

[od71]

So everything that criticizes the league gets labelled as "Russophobia"? Okay.

No. Criticism is a good thing if it's deserved objective and is not lopsided

 

[Jussi]

No. Criticism is a good thing if it's deserved objective and is not lopsided

If there's reason for criticism, it doesn't matter if it's "lopsided". In that case it simply means they've given too much reason for criticism.

 

[od71]

If there's reason for criticism, it doesn't matter if it's "lopsided". In that case it simply means they've given too much reason for criticism.

Sure it does. Because it distorts the whole picture. BTW it's one of the main problems of modern media and is called propaganda

 

[Jussi]

Other than loppa and Atas2000, I can't give you any other specific examples right now. It's just an impression I got by participating on these boards over the past years, and there have been users that I haven't seen post in a while who were giving off this sentiment. But you can change "a lot" to "some", if you want. What Jussi mentions also occurs on a somewhat regular basis, if only by the same posters over and over again.

It's stuff like this that irks Europeans off right now:

Europeans always fear Russia and they never can live with the fact Russia is strong in any way. That's the true root of it. That's where all the russophobia and lies about Russsia come from. The problem lies with the Europeans. There is no wrong attitude on the russian side whatsoever.

That wasn't the case a couple of years ago. It wasn't until recently when a few Russian and Russophile posters began repeating the same mantra that the Russian media started doing that "everyone in Europe/West is a russophope". Before that, it was much easier to discuss with certain posters here.

 

[Lapa]

We're done here. No more productive discussion coming from this thread.