The reality is that if a Russian player and a Canadian or American player are equal, an NHL team will keep the North American and send the Russian to the AHL, where they die a natural death in most cases. The KHL is a great solution to fall back on for Russian players who would otherwise be backbenchers (e.g. Tikhonov).
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The reality is that if a Russian player and a Canadian or American player are equal, an NHL team will keep the North American and send the Russian to the AHL, where they die a natural death in most cases. The KHL is a great solution to fall back on for Russian players who would otherwise be backbenchers (e.g. Tikhonov).
The whole tone aims to belittle the KHL as insignificant and to castigate Russians and stuff associated with them as problematic , defective and unworthy.
When I think of the WHA I think of a league organized to pay players more fairly, whereas the NHL was paying them pitifully low salaries.
Nobody seriously considers a transcontinental league...
Like I said earlier, I totally want the KHL to suceed. But the fact of the matter is, no matter how insulting it might be to hear, the KHL is looking like a pitiful amateur operation right now. They are spitting out franchises like clowns out of a clown car. And the survival of many of the European franchises (at least as KHL members) is pretty shaky. And the less said about Sochi, the better. The expansion into the far Eastern nations is looking like a pipe dream. They can still be a successful league, but they need to seriously revise their vision as a European/Asian super hockey league.
I'm still very bummed there is no more Lev Praha. But at least my Lev jersey is now a collector's item...
I'm still very bummed there is no more Lev Praha. But at least my Lev jersey is now a collector's item...
The league just started, so it is way too early to start issuing a post mortem or speculating on where the league is 5 to 10 years from now. Hockey is on the upswing overall in Europe, despite a bit of a decline from previous levels in the Czech Republic and Slovakia, and there is going to have to be, at a minimum, an intermediate level between the NHL and domestic leagues where good players can play. There will always be a majority of North Americans in the NHL, so there is only room for the very best European players there. As European programs produce more talent, there will eventually be a full market for the KHL or some equivalent level of competition. The entertainment value of hockey is high, and Europeans love it.
Just the fact that the KHL is a Russian project assures that there won't be full market for it in Europe no matter how much Europeans love hockey, all other problems aside. I'm not being xenophobic or projecting my personal feelings here, it's a fact. Most Czechs didn't even give it a chance and didn't care about the great hockey being played, just because of the background of the league, the smaller fraction being those, that only cared because they could see Russian teams lose. Maybe hard to accept or swallow, but true.
Then there is the fact that it's completely broken in its current state, but as you said, it's too early to tell how things will turn out.
Why it should be hard to accept? Luckily there are no more Czechs team in KHL and we don't have to pretend that we give a **** about what they think. We just don't. KHL tries to get access to the real markets (Germany or Schweiz). If it would fail, then KHL just cut off all foreign teams that generating losses and would use European championships as sources of players for KHL.
It's funny how many foreigners from small countries think that their tiny markets are very valuable for KHL. Some Latvian guy on this forum had gone so far as saying that he want Dynamo Riga would left KHL, but it'll never happen, because "European" teams are so important for KHL and Russians will never stop sponsoring DR.
Like this "European" label is some sort of magic word, that converts poor small country in some sort of valuable prize for KHL. The example of Lev should help to get rid of all these silly illusions.Why it should be hard to accept? Luckily there are no more Czechs team in KHL and we don't have to pretend that we give a **** about what they think. We just don't. KHL tries to get access to the real markets (Germany or Schweiz). If it would fail, then KHL just cut off all foreign teams that generating losses and would use European championships as sources of players for KHL.
It's funny how many foreigners from small countries think that their tiny markets are very valuable for KHL. Some Latvian guy on this forum had gone so far as saying that he want Dynamo Riga would left KHL, but it'll never happen, because "European" teams are so important for KHL and Russians will never stop sponsoring DR.
Trust me, if KHL decided to kick out all non-russian teams, apart from Riga (is there a team in Belarus? I guess maybe they'd care too) no one would care, even a little. Majority of jokerit fans would probably be happy.
Why it should be hard to accept? Luckily there are no more Czechs team in KHL and we don't have to pretend that we give a **** about what they think. We just don't. KHL tries to get access to the real markets (Germany or Schweiz). If it would fail, then KHL just cut off all foreign teams that generating losses and would use European championships as sources of players for KHL.
It's funny how many foreigners from small countries think that their tiny markets are very valuable for KHL. Some Latvian guy on this forum had gone so far as saying that he want Dynamo Riga would left KHL, but it'll never happen, because "European" teams are so important for KHL and Russians will never stop sponsoring DR.
Then why bother with the KHL at all? Go back to the Russian Super League and be done with it. But don't forget, Russian teams are folding as well. And adding Sochi isn't going to help.
{Mod} The whole point of the KHL was to expand into other nations outside Russia and their former Soviet nations. {Mod} The simple fact is, without Europe you're back to a Russian-only league. If that's what you want, then great. But that is not what the KHL was supposed to be. The first letter of the name should give that away: "Continental". {Mod}
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{Mod} I have already written what was goal of KHL in the first place. And it isn't to be sugar daddy for some foreign teams that couldn't self-support themselves. And teams are folding all the time all around the world in all the sports (Glasgo Rangers and Fiorentina). It's not a big problem.
You obviously have problems with distinguishing between goals and means. Expanding on rich markets is for gaining more income and not for holding bankrupt teams afloat. And I see nothing wrong with Russian-only league if expansion plan of KHL would fail. You should always be ready to cut off the losses.
Russia is continent for herself and by the way what first word of world series of baseball gives away in that case?
It's just a name.
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Brastislava and Zagreb do not want to lose their teams. That thought does not cross their mind at all.
The sochi project might work. Weirder things in the US have worked.
As for Russian teams folding - sure, but that has been happening since the KHL existed. That's nothing new, it's business as usual. Meanwhile other teams are getting better.
Why it should be hard to accept? Luckily there are no more Czechs team in KHL and we don't have to pretend that we give a **** about what they think. We just don't. KHL tries to get access to the real markets (Germany or Schweiz). If it would fail, then KHL just cut off all foreign teams that generating losses and would use European championships as sources of players for KHL.
It's funny how many foreigners from small countries think that their tiny markets are very valuable for KHL. Some Latvian guy on this forum had gone so far as saying that he want Dynamo Riga would left KHL, but it'll never happen, because "European" teams are so important for KHL and Russians will never stop sponsoring DR.
They actually are valuable from the KHL's point of view, having much more potential buying power than anything in Russia (using poor small country and Lev in the same context is just funny). These foreigners you speak of don't think anything though, they don't care, they care about their home league and its integrity.
From what I know, Germans and Swiss are just as happy with their well established and working leagues, I don't see why they would want to join the KHL.
Croatia has no league of its own to speak of, Slovakian league pretty much turned into an amateur competition and the pro teams decided to find an alternative.
I don't quite understand what is that mysterious "anything in Russia" that have less potential buying power than ... than who or what actually?
, but anyway it doesn't change that simple fact that KHL have got nothing except losses from them. I think that KHL indifference about Lev situation says for itself about what's valuable for KHL and what's not.{Mod}
Maybe, but again what is the point of this statement of you? Did I say something that contradict it? No, I've talked about KHL goal. Whether they could achieve it or not is a completely different question (answer on which we couldn't surely know now). So their goal is market of Schweiz and/or Germany. All the other countries are just temporary replacement. So you shouldn't be much worrying about KHL going to Czechs market again.
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cutchemist42
Registered User
Out of all the major NA sports with relevant leagues elsewhere, it does feel like the NHL crowd/media is more hostile to international leagues/organizations. Not this article but another one (along with radio personalities/media) felt like gloating instead of discussion about proper re-tooling. I honestly believe that a strong KHL is good for the sport as a whole.
I personally feel like you don't get this with baseball, basketball, and the CFL/NFL situation.
That being said, the article was kinda bad since I found its premise/message to be off. I was surprised Wynshynski decided to go with this story.
I personally feel like you don't get this with baseball, basketball, and the CFL/NFL situation.
That being said, the article was kinda bad since I found its premise/message to be off. I was surprised Wynshynski decided to go with this story.
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BlueBratislava
Registered User
- Nov 7, 2013
- 301
- 1
Look, I will not say that the KHL today is absolutely ideal, but the idea and potential of the league is worthwile. That's why our team joined it. It is the only hockey project in Europe that survived for longer than couple seasons and on top of it, it is a sellable hockey product in European countries. Take a look at the results, no international club competitions ever survived in Europe long-term. I am not counting weekend tournaments, we will see how the CHL turns out, but I guarantee you the ultimate goal of the CHL is to create a league like the KHL. Why? Because they see that it can work and in some places it can be very attractive.
My post was not directed to you but rather to the rhetoric that since one team (Lev) has fallen out that all non russian teams are bound to fall out and do not have true support or desire to stay in the league. There is too much of such talk going on, or so I feel that there is too much of that. Bratislava, Medvsecak, and Jokerit are examples of how that is not the case. The whole rhetoric is one of either momentary panic or intended degradation of the league, I think.
If you find it would you post it here? It's interesting stuff in my opinion... and I think there's no need to only look at one article, why not look at multiple ones.
On a side note, if I dig it up there was an article that I posted on some other place... people felt it was negative towards the KHL, yet I felt that it was actually not bad at all. So, there are multiple ways of seeing certain things heh.
I never said that the KHL was going to fail because Lev is gone. But I have seen many people on here arguing (very incorrectly, I'd say) that Lev being gone is good for the KHL. It isn't. No one can make a compelling case that the Czech hockey culture isn't a desirable gain for the KHL. Now, I see Croatia and Slovakia's case that they basically had no strong hockey league at this point, so the KHL is a huge benefit to them. And that's probably the way to grow in the KHL for now, before they consider teams from leagues in Sweden, Finland and the Czech Republic. And I really hope that happens.
Cutchemnist mentioned that the the NHL fans are hostile to the KHL. That couldn't be more incorrect. You know what 99.5% of the NHL fan's opinion of the KHL is? "What's the KHL?" And another .3% might ask "Is that where Kovalchuk went?" My point is, they don't care at all. I personally love KHL hockey, and want it to succeed. I've traveled across the world to see it live. Heck, check my photo: that's a SKA Kovalchuk jersey on me kissing the Stanley Cup at the Hockey Hall of Fame. But people really should stop taking any criticism of the KHL as a personal slight. They've screwed up. Criticism may get them back on a better path. But with the NHL and it's fans? Toughest sell ever.
It is true that the fans don't follow the KHL at all. But, it's not so much that they do not know of it, but because they think they're the center of the universe and that everything else is not worth their time to bother taking a look. Even lower leagues in north america get minimal attention.
But, the media and columnists are hostile...
No, they really don't know of the KHL. At all. It's a practical unknown in America. Sure, NHL fans vaguely know there is a Russian league, but they have no idea what a KHL is if you mention it to them. As for the "center of the universe"? Well, isn't the NHL the center of the hockey universe? That's not arrogance, that's fact. It's inarguable that the NHL is the world's best hockey league. I will point out though, that the AHL gets very good attendance in North America as well.
And I'm not sure about this hostile vibe you get from the media on the KHL. Strikes me as KHL proponents being overly thin-skinned. If the KHL stops screwing up, the coverage will get better.
Ryker
Registered User
That's not really true, or at least not to the extent you made yourself believe it to be. There's only so much time one has, and if a hockey fan lives in North America, why wouldn't he go for the best product out there first? NHL has more games than the KHL, and there's a lot more coverage of it, so to be fully immersed in it requires more time than being fully immersed in a European league does for the European fan. I know, because I've been on both sides.
And, as mentioned, other leagues get good attendance, and the CHL probably gets even better attendance than the KHL. So how can you support the argument that no one cares about the minor leagues? There's fans that only follow the NHL and there's fans that also follow other teams, or even follow them primarily.
It goes the other way, too. There are plenty of people only interested in their domestic league in Europe, not having an interest in the NHL. Which is perfectly fine by me, and completely understandable. Like I said, no one has all the time in the world, so you have to cut some stuff out.
My message was written very nicely - it included an inclusive and, not an or. And so... what come after the and is the interesting part. The part before the and was a given, sure, no problem, but the part after it is more like (to be realistic this time, not nice) ...and everything that is not NHL is worthless *****...
I would call it an egotistical view, but ya know, it does not bother me on one hand... they do not know better and indeed it's reasonable for the average hockey fan in north america do not care at all about hockey in europe, just as it is in for example basketball.
What bother me is when the news/article columnists write some really obscene stuff which enforces the view of others being "worthless *****". The othering, a term that we could use from political things ... http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Other
I would call it an egotistical view, but ya know, it does not bother me on one hand... they do not know better and indeed it's reasonable for the average hockey fan in north america do not care at all about hockey in europe, just as it is in for example basketball.
What bother me is when the news/article columnists write some really obscene stuff which enforces the view of others being "worthless *****". The othering, a term that we could use from political things ... http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Other
I think the KHL has a bright future and I really enjoy watching KHL games online when I can. Hopefully more talented players will end up in the KHL. As for the folded teams, Spartak was competing with three other Moscow teams, Lev was competing with Czech Extraliga teams, and Donbass has an unfortunate political situation. The wide geographical range of the teams makes the league even more interesting.
Some people really have to calm down.
KHL never will be able to compete for players or market share with the NHL. That's for sure. And I also think it's not their aim.
What about arrogance? The arrogance the Russians and the KHL show towards the other European hockey leagues is far worse than anything that comes from the NHL towards KHL.
If Russians wouldn't completely overpay regular players and throw out millions of dollars every year for a product not much better than the rest of Europe offers, nobody would even talk about that league outside of Russia and Belarus.
Time will tell what happens with KHL. I wont be a big success story in Western Europe IMHO but they will maybe get some franchises in former Soviet occupied areas like Hungary or Poland.
KHL never will be able to compete for players or market share with the NHL. That's for sure. And I also think it's not their aim.
What about arrogance? The arrogance the Russians and the KHL show towards the other European hockey leagues is far worse than anything that comes from the NHL towards KHL.
If Russians wouldn't completely overpay regular players and throw out millions of dollars every year for a product not much better than the rest of Europe offers, nobody would even talk about that league outside of Russia and Belarus.
Time will tell what happens with KHL. I wont be a big success story in Western Europe IMHO but they will maybe get some franchises in former Soviet occupied areas like Hungary or Poland.
Jussi
Registered User
Well one could say that considering how much they've made a point about the NHL "robbing" players from Europe, now because of KHL out-clauses in virtually every contract, teams from other leagues could end up getting less money to none at all for KHL transfers than NHL ones. If they care about European hockey so much, why haven't they signed transfer agreements with other leagues that guarantee bigger money than NHL transfers for every players? Plus there was the whole CHL thing where the KHL wanted to dictate which clubs they were going to send while also trying to block clubs from other leagues from taking part (potential KHL candidate teams). That rubbed off a lot clubs the wrong way.
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