Another day, another Islanders arena proposal (UPD - Bettman issues deadline warning)

[Brodie]

This one is being pushed by Nassau and NY State officials and would be paired with a casino and built at Belmont Park (of horse racing fame). The site is right on the border with Queens and has a LIRR station (some of the parking lots and the LIRR station itself are technically in Queens), so it would be a major step up in some respects. The article also raises the prospect of state funding being involved, thus bypassing the historic issues with Nassau County

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/officials-eye-coliseum-belmont-scenario-1.3222821

Click to read more...

 

[Killion]

Well now that makes a ton of sense; very interesting & exciting. I linked to the article of course, assume the land to the right of the track outlined in the gray oval would be the site?... Next up, any comments from the Islanders/Wang on this one & whats the likelihood of state support in terms of financing?. Seems to me to be a perfect marriage if you combine special taxing on the district combined with casino revenues, sort of like the scenario being played out in Columbus.

 

[kdb209]

Well now that makes a ton of sense; very interesting & exciting. I linked to the article of course, assume the land to the right of the track outlined in the gray oval would be the site?... Next up, any comments from the Islanders/Wang on this one & whats the likelihood of state support in terms of financing?. Seems to me to be a perfect marriage if you combine special taxing on the district combined with casino revenues, sort of like the scenario being played out in Columbus.

That gray oval (and the smaller one to the right) are the current exercise tracks, below and to the right of the exercise oval are the stables, and to the right, across the street from the small exercise/walking track, is the High School I went to for 9th grade - and when the wind was right, ugh. Well at least on the plus side, I got to see live all of the Triple Crown winners in my lifetime and a bunch of other races (including the tragic Foolish Pleasure / Ruffian match race).

I'm not sure what Belmont would do if they lost their exercise track and stable space. A few years ago their was talk of Aqueduct closing, the track & stables at Belmont being upgraded and expanded, and the racing season extended year round.

 

[Killion]

That gray oval (and the smaller one to the right) are the current exercise tracks, below and to the right of the exercise oval are the stables, and to the right, across the street from the small exercise/walking track, is the High School I went to for 9th grade - and when the wind was right, ugh. Well at least on the plus side, I got to see live all of the Triple Crown winners in my lifetime and a bunch of other races (including the tragic Foolish Pleasure / Ruffian match race).

I'm not sure what Belmont would do if they lost their exercise track and stable space. A few years ago their was talk of Aqueduct closing, the track & stables at Belmont being upgraded and expanded, and the racing season extended year round.

Wow, thats awesome, Belmont almost in your backyard!. Had a similar situation in Toronto. EP Taylors suburban stables nearby; seeing Northern Dancer out n' about from time-time as a kid.... anyhoo, at first glance ya, I thought the oval off to the right was an existing exercise track that'd be moved somewhere. Looking at the topographic via google, I dont see where without losing parking or alternatively, leaving the exercise track where its at, which must have extensive stabling & infrastructure around it alone. So, where exactly are they planning to drop in a Casino and possibly a new arena for the Isles?. Upper left in that parking lot or right out front?..

 

[MaskedSonja]

This does seem pretty tight-the casino and horse racing would be a nice complex to build with and around. Is Charles Wang open to it-that's the big question I think. I can't see how he wouldn't be, unless we aren't getting part of the story.

 

[kdb209]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/coliseum-belmont-plan-draws-mixed-reviews-1.3225629

The politicos near Belmont like it, those near the Mauselum don't want to lose it (and it's revenues), and Kate Murray is happy with an office park.

We should know more by Oct 14 - when Mangano has to submit an economic development and jobs plan to qualify for state aid.

A proposal to build a new Nassau Coliseum at Belmont Raceway drew support and some skepticism Wednesday from a variety of Nassau officials and civic leaders with a stake in the development plans.

The idea, floated Tuesday by Hofstra University president Stuart Rabinowitz at a meeting of the Long Island Regional Economic Development Council, could spur creation of a sports-entertainment complex in western Nassau and a research and development center in the Hub area in Uniondale.

At Belmont, such a move could bring together the raceway, an arena and a casino proposed by the Shinnecock Indian Nation.

...

Legis. John Ciotti (R-North Valley Stream), whose district includes Belmont Park, said pairing an arena with the racetrack and a proposed casino would create a wealth of new jobs. "This would be a grand slam for the residents of Elmont," Ciotti said.

Unlike the Hub, Ciotti said, Belmont is accessible by public transportation through a Long Island Rail Road station.

But Legis. Kevan Abrahams (D-Hempstead), who represents the area surrounding the Hub, expressed skepticism. Nassau owns the Coliseum land and collects annual revenue from the New York Islanders, whose lease at the Coliseum expires in 2015. Abrahams said it's unclear if that arrangement would continue at Belmont.

"There are just so many unanswered questions," Abrahams said.

Patrick Nicolosi, president of the Elmont East End Civic Association, said locating the Coliseum at Belmont "is a good idea but we just need to see the details."

...

Nassau County Executive Edward Mangano said Wednesday that he will submit a "job creation" plan to the Council by Oct. 14 that will include Belmont and the Hub. Ten councils across the state will evaluate proposals for economic development that will compete for $200 million in state aid.

"We can truly jump-start job creation at Belmont Park in the west, at Nassau's Hub in the center of our county, and at the former U.S. Navy-Grumman property," in Bethpage, Mangano said in a statement. "Residents should stay tuned for our exciting announcement."

County officials declined to comment on whether the plan would include an arena at Belmont. But Rabinowitz, the council's vice chairman, said that by submitting a plan by the Oct. 14 deadline, Mangano is "going to show his hand."

"We'll look at the merits of the plan, consider its impact on the surrounding community and on other facilities in the area, and determine if there is any benefit to the state of New York," said Michael Whyland, spokesman for Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver (D-Manhattan). Building a new arena at Belmont would allow the county to redevelop the Hub as a research and development park, said Hempstead Town Board member and Mangano special counsel Ed Ambrosino.

"This type of creative reinvention of Belmont . . . allows Mitchel Field to be reconsidered as an economic engine that works even closer with Hofstra," said Desmond Ryan, executive director of the Association for a Better Long island, a real estate group.

Hempstead Town Supervisor Kate Murray said a research and development would "fit in beautifully" with the town's zoning for the Hub. She added that a carefully crafted plan would likely require no approval from the town.

 

[MaskedSonja]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/coliseum-belmont-plan-draws-mixed-reviews-1.3225629

The politicos near Belmont like it, those near the Mauselum don't want to lose it (and it's revenues), and Kate Murray is happy with an office park.

Maybe you or someone can fill me in: does Kate Murray not like hockey/the Isles? Just wonder because she always (from the little I've seen) seems to either downplay or shove aside any Isles thoughts at building an arena ANYWHERE.

What is her agenda?

 

[kdb209]

Maybe you or someone can fill me in: does Kate Murray not like hockey/the Isles? Just wonder because she always (from the little I've seen) seems to either downplay or shove aside any Isles thoughts at building an arena ANYWHERE.

What is her agenda?

NIMBY-ism pure and simple - with a dash of party politics. The Town of Hempstead (~1/3 of Nassau County - NY has this completely unnecessary level of Gov't between city/village and county) is staunchly GOP and didn't want to do anything that would have given credit to the Dems when Suozzi was County Executive and they Dems controlled the County Legislature. The GOP retook the County in 2010 - but I get the feeling that she does not get along with Managano, the current County Exec.

 

[kdb209]

Last Friday, Nassau County submited an economic development plan to NY State - in order to qualify for a pool of state economic development aid.

A new Coliseum in Uniondale is still Plan A - the Coliseum would share the current and surrounding site with biotech R & D and residential development.

Belmont would also have sports and entertainment development - including a potential soccer stadium and the Shinnecock casino proposal. Belmont would be a Plan B for the Coliseum if it can't fit in with the planned Hub R & D development.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/coliseum-research-lab-in-new-county-plan-1.3246749

Coliseum, research lab in new county plan
Originally published: October 14, 2011 7:42 PM

Nassau County officials submitted an extensive economic development plan to the state Friday that envisions creating a bioscience research and development park and a new Nassau Coliseum in the Hub.

The proposal also focuses on Belmont Park as a site of new sports and entertainment options, including a potential soccer stadium, as well as expanding homeland security research facilities and film and television studios at the Grumman property in Bethpage.

The plan suggests that Belmont could be an alternative site for the Coliseum if the bioscience park would take up the entire 77-acre Hub site. It also reiterates County Executive Edward Mangano's earlier proposal for a Shinnecock Indian Nation casino at Belmont.

...

The county is primarily asking for $253 million in state money for infrastructure and roadway improvements. It would still have to seek private developers for the rest of the proposals.

Nassau sent its application to the state's Empire State Development Corp. Friday as a "transformative project." The submission will first compete with other economic development projects across Long Island. Then the Long Island Regional Economic Development Council will choose top projects to compete with nine other regions for $200 million in state funds. The state's decision is expected in December.

Going forward, there will be an additional $800 million in state dollars available through various grants, tax credits and other funding streams.

...

Titled "Accelerate Nassau Now," the plan proposes 5.4 million square feet of development at the 77-acre Coliseum site. The centerpiece of the effort is a bioscience innovation facility -- a 50-acre research and development park that could be home to out-of-state companies hoping to expand.

A new Coliseum would be built at the northern edge of the property, although the county is also entertaining proposals for a renovated arena. A 6,000-car, $150 million parking garage would be shared between bioscience offices and the Coliseum.

The site would have room for housing and the existing Long Island Marriott.Beyond the site itself, the county proposes a $7 million state-funded research and development exposition center on other county land at Mitchel Field, where bioscience conferences could be held. The county also hopes to include a minor league ballpark and track and field facility there.

Artist rendering of one of the designs of the hub site surrounding Nassau Coliseum, which includes a bioscience park

The Newsday piece also embeds the full 32 page development proposal description.

 

[kdb209]

Overhead views of the current NVMC site, the planned development, and the adjacent Mitchell Field area (where the plan also envisions an exposition center, track and field venue, and a minor league ballpark for the LI Ducks.

The Coliseum is envisioned as seating only 16-17.5K, and the transit improvements are just shuttle busses - not light rail of an LIRR extension.

Redevelopment of the County property is anticipated to include the following elements:

• Mixed-use development program resulting in significant short-term and long-term job creation. The mixed-use development would include up to 5.4 million square feet of development consisting of sports and entertainment venues, residential, office, hotel and retail uses. A major focus of the office use would be a Bioscience/Hi-Tech Innovation Center
  
• New Nassau Coliseum (±16,000-17,500 seats depending on the activity)
  
• New multi-purpose Exposition Center for indoor sports, trade shows, large gatherings, etc.
  
• New multipurpose track and field facility/exhibition hall
  
• New minor league baseball stadium (subject of a separate grant application by the Long Island Ducks)
  
• Public park space and streetscape improvements
  
• Transit access with new intermodal stations and connection to the Long Island Rail Road in Carle Place or Mineola
  
• New multi-purpose parking structure to maximize land area available for private development opportunities while maintaining green space. The complementary time
  frames of the uses (office use during the day, sports and entertainment use during evenings and weekends) allows for efficient shared use of the facility

If this is the best they can do - a new small Coliseum squeezed into a corner of the development with a humongous parking garage - I think it's Belmont Plan-B or bye-bye Islanders (as far as Nassau is concerned). I can't see Nassau with it's high costs attracting that kind of R & D investment from the private sector (either real estate developers or biotech companies). The consensus on the Isles board seems to agree.

 

[Killion]

Thanks for posting the detailed proposals including site plans kdb. Its early days yet, the 14th being just this past Friday, awaiting some comment from the Isles & Wang on this thing... little point in speculating on what his response might be however, Im' not thinkin its going to be dreadfully positive be it Plan 'A' or 'B' with Belmont. Does he therefore sell & move on with his life or does the NHL facilitate his relocation & or sale for relo if it comes down to it?. Theres just gotta be people who would give their eye teeth to own a pro franchise, the Islanders specifically in that area even absent the massive gravy train of extraneous revenue streams with a stake in the developments.

 

[LadyStanley]

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/nhl-chief-islanders-deadline-gets-close-1.3269809

Bettman issues warning.

NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said Monday that the New York Islanders are "getting close" to the point where work must begin on a new or renovated building before the team's Nassau Coliseum lease expires in 2015.
"It's not tomorrow, and people shouldn't panic, and nobody is focused on what the alternative is, and frankly if they run 24 hours late, we'll deal with that," he said in an interview on WFAN-AM, after acknowledging it takes about three years to complete an arena project. "But the team has to have a new building and it has to be concrete plans on the horizon that's going to get it done. Otherwise, we're going to have a problem.
"I don't know exactly how we're going to solve that problem, but it's inconceivable to me the Islanders wouldn't be on Long Island because it would be malpractice for those in charge to let that happen."

 

[Killion]

And some of you people want Gary Bettman to resign or retire, be fired or have a piano fall on his head...

"...it would be malpractice for those in charge to let that happen".

Awesome. I hope he never retires, he certainly wont get fired, that leaves ya'll watchin Warner Brothers lookin 4Salvation.

 

[nyrmetros]

Viable mass transit is a must... Belmont Park Lirr is not as awesome as people think.... At the moment at least.... And the nvmc has nothing but abandoned lirr row's.....

 

[kdb209]

Viable mass transit is a must... Belmont Park Lirr is not as awesome as people think.... At the moment at least.... And the nvmc has nothing but abandoned lirr row's.....

And the new Coliseum plan du jour doesn't do much to fix that - it just adds shuttle busses from the Mineola or Carle Place LIRR stations.

 

[kdb209]

More NIMBY-ism coming out of the woodwork for any casino development at Belmont:

http://www.antonnews.com/floralpark...e-village-of-floral-park-october-20-2011.html

Mayor’s Message Village of Floral Park: October 20, 2011
Written by Thomas J. Tweedy Friday, 21 October 2011 00:00

Hofstra University President Stuart Rabinowitz is being called upon by the Floral Park Task Force on the Development and Preservation of Belmont Park to immediately recuse himself from the Long Island Economic Development Council and to cease any further involvement with the group, especially concerning the potential location of a casino or moving the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum from its present 77-acre site, which is adjacent to Hofstra’s 220-acre campus, to Belmont Park, which is owned by the State of New York. The Long Island Economic Development Council, which is co-chaired by Hofstra’s president, was launched this past July by New York Governor Andrew Cuomo, as one of 10 regional planning groups competing for $1 billion in state funding earmarked for local projects they determine to be part of their regional strategy. The Floral Park Task Force was formed as a result of the State of New York’s taking over control of Belmont Park from NYRA in 2008, and as a hosting neighboring community, Floral Park has been very concerned about the various plans that have been discussed concerning the future of Belmont Park.

Hofstra University President Stuart Rabinowitz has been the co-chairman of this important planning group that has been advising Governor Andrew Cuomo on Long Island’s regional priorities, including prioritizing the potential inclusion of Nassau County’s 77-acre site that is currently occupied by the Nassau Veterans Memorial Coliseum. This past summer, the taxpayers of Nassau County soundly defeated a referendum proposing that a new arena be built at its current site to replace the Coliseum, which was built in 1972. The New York Islanders have threatened to move if they are unable to play in a new arena when their current lease with Nassau County expires. There have been several proposals made concerning “the Hub,†including the Lighthouse Plan proposed by the New York Islanders’ owner Charles Wang, which was dramatically scaled back after a thorough review by the Town of Hempstead.

Representatives of the Shinnecock Indian Nation have also discussed having 40 acres of the Hub site set aside in order to build a casino. Hofstra President Rabinowitz has said, “We’re not only opposed to a casino [near] Hofstra University, but we have every intention of fighting it†according to Newsday [June 11, 2010]. Hofstra University President Rabinowitz has also told the New York Times ‘that the prospect of an adjacent casino would be “awful†and that scholars and researchers “would not be attracted to live in an area where there were busloads of New York City people coming to gamble.â€â€™ New York Times [July 23, 2010].

While there are a host of projects in need of such funding on Long Island, under the leadership of Hofstra’s president, the planning group has apparently focused its initial attention on the 77-acre site, which is adjacent to Hofstra University’s 220-acre campus on Hempstead Turnpike. In the Long Island Regional Development Council’s submission of its 32-page report, less than 400 words are dedicated to the development and future of Belmont Park. Whatever the merits of redeveloping the 77-acre Hub site to fit nicely into the vision that not-for-profit landowner Hofstra University has for its own future, Hofstra’s president must not be the one leading the planning group making such decisions.

Floral Park has set forth its position. We support maintaining Belmont Park as a world-class thoroughbred racing facility, as it has been for over a century. Floral Park submitted its Statement of Principles to the State of New York in 2007, demanding that any discussions concerning the future of Belmont Park include its hosting communities in Western Nassau County. We respectfully, but unequivocally, call for Hofstra University President Stuart Rabinowitz to step aside and resign in order that the process leading to any proposed changes at Belmont Park are made transparently and fairly to ensure the communities surrounding Belmont Park are given the same consideration as Hofstra University has apparently been granted in determining the future of its neighboring 77-acre Coliseum site.

 

[MaskedSonja]

And some of you people want Gary Bettman to resign or retire, be fired or have a piano fall on his head...

"...it would be malpractice for those in charge to let that happen".

Awesome. I hope he never retires, he certainly wont get fired, that leaves ya'll watchin Warner Brothers lookin 4Salvation.

I could make a joke about termite terraces, but that would be in poor taste


I think that it's really quite a shame that a team with as much history as the isles have, with that multiple cup wins and just general feel of the team, that it almost seems to be, as kdb pointed out, the NIMBY-ism going on and that they can't come to agreement to find someplace, ANY PLACE, to build an arena.

Just goes to show what a different time we live in, sadly.

 

[gordie]

Islanders have the last two months of this year and all of 2012 and if they don't have something done by then so that shovels can start going into the ground somewhere, then it probably won't happen at all and certainly not by 2015. At that point Quebec City and its new arena looks like a real alternative to the NHL.

 

[kdb209]

Somewhat OT - but this is the most recent Barclays Center-ish thread.

Ratner unveils designs for first Atlantic Yards residential towers adjacent to the Barclays Center.

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/design-unveiled-for-tower-at-atlantic-yards/

A 32-story residential building proposed for the Atlantic Yards project would be the world’s tallest prefabricated or modular steel structure. It is seen in the foreground of the rendering above, to the right of the Barclays Center, at the corner of Flatbush Avenue and Dean Street.

 

[Tavaresmagicalplay*]

I was wondering about this. The situation is pretty dire isn't it? They're probably moving to Brooklyn if this one doesn't get done no?

 

[Kane One]

I was wondering about this. The situation is pretty dire isn't it? They're probably moving to Brooklyn if this one doesn't get done no?

I would assume they would just play there until they get a new arena. The sight-lines wouldn't be great there for hockey and there won't be enough seats. It would be cool if they renovate Barclays Center because it would be a lot easier for me to get there.

 

[knorthern knight]

I would assume they would just play there until they get a new arena. The sight-lines wouldn't be great there for hockey and there won't be enough seats. It would be cool if they renovate Barclays Center because it would be a lot easier for me to get there.

Renovating an existing structure is rather expensive. Technically, the arena is supposed to hold 14,500 for hockey, but I share your concerns about sight lines. 14,500 good seats should be viable. If a significant chunk of them can't see the entire rink, it's a no-go.

 

[Mr Atoz*]

I think that it's really quite a shame that a team with as much history as the isles have, with that multiple cup wins and just general feel of the team, that it almost seems to be, as kdb pointed out, the NIMBY-ism going on and that they can't come to agreement to find someplace, ANY PLACE, to build an arena.

Other than those 4 years, the islanders have virtually no history other than futility, horrendous trades, incompetent revolving door ownership, and threats to leave.

 

[NYRFAN218]

http://www.seats3d.com/nba/barclays_center/

Based on that seating chart, there's no way hockey could work there. 14,500 with seats behind the goals in the upper deck being obstructed. Arena's just too small.

 

[MNNumbers]

http://www.seats3d.com/nba/barclays_center/

Based on that seating chart, there's no way hockey could work there. 14,500 with seats behind the goals in the upper deck being obstructed. Arena's just too small.

I'm new here. NBA is played on a 94' court, right? NHL on a 200' rink. Where does the rink fit in here? Same orientation as basketball court, or crosswise? And, how would the upper deck then be obstructed?

Thanks.