Another day, another Islanders arena proposal (UPD - Bettman issues deadline warning)

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by Brodie, Oct 6, 2011.

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  1. Brodie

    Brodie Marxist-Harbaughist

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    This one is being pushed by Nassau and NY State officials and would be paired with a casino and built at Belmont Park (of horse racing fame). The site is right on the border with Queens and has a LIRR station (some of the parking lots and the LIRR station itself are technically in Queens), so it would be a major step up in some respects. The article also raises the prospect of state funding being involved, thus bypassing the historic issues with Nassau County

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/officials-eye-coliseum-belmont-scenario-1.3222821
     
  2. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    Well now that makes a ton of sense; very interesting & exciting. I linked to the article of course, assume the land to the right of the track outlined in the gray oval would be the site?... Next up, any comments from the Islanders/Wang on this one & whats the likelihood of state support in terms of financing?. Seems to me to be a perfect marriage if you combine special taxing on the district combined with casino revenues, sort of like the scenario being played out in Columbus.
     
  3. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    That gray oval (and the smaller one to the right) are the current exercise tracks, below and to the right of the exercise oval are the stables, and to the right, across the street from the small exercise/walking track, is the High School I went to for 9th grade - and when the wind was right, ugh. Well at least on the plus side, I got to see live all of the Triple Crown winners in my lifetime and a bunch of other races (including the tragic Foolish Pleasure / Ruffian match race).

    I'm not sure what Belmont would do if they lost their exercise track and stable space. A few years ago their was talk of Aqueduct closing, the track & stables at Belmont being upgraded and expanded, and the racing season extended year round.
     
  4. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    Wow, thats awesome, Belmont almost in your backyard!. Had a similar situation in Toronto. EP Taylors suburban stables nearby; seeing Northern Dancer out n' about from time-time as a kid.... anyhoo, at first glance ya, I thought the oval off to the right was an existing exercise track that'd be moved somewhere. Looking at the topographic via google, I dont see where without losing parking or alternatively, leaving the exercise track where its at, which must have extensive stabling & infrastructure around it alone. So, where exactly are they planning to drop in a Casino and possibly a new arena for the Isles?. Upper left in that parking lot or right out front?..
     
  5. Tinalera

    Tinalera Registered User

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    This does seem pretty tight-the casino and horse racing would be a nice complex to build with and around. Is Charles Wang open to it-that's the big question I think. I can't see how he wouldn't be, unless we aren't getting part of the story.
     
  6. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/coliseum-belmont-plan-draws-mixed-reviews-1.3225629

    The politicos near Belmont like it, those near the Mauselum don't want to lose it (and it's revenues), and Kate Murray is happy with an office park.

    We should know more by Oct 14 - when Mangano has to submit an economic development and jobs plan to qualify for state aid.

     
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2011
  7. Tinalera

    Tinalera Registered User

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    Maybe you or someone can fill me in: does Kate Murray not like hockey/the Isles? Just wonder because she always (from the little I've seen) seems to either downplay or shove aside any Isles thoughts at building an arena ANYWHERE.

    What is her agenda?
     
  8. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    NIMBY-ism pure and simple - with a dash of party politics. The Town of Hempstead (~1/3 of Nassau County - NY has this completely unnecessary level of Gov't between city/village and county) is staunchly GOP and didn't want to do anything that would have given credit to the Dems when Suozzi was County Executive and they Dems controlled the County Legislature. The GOP retook the County in 2010 - but I get the feeling that she does not get along with Managano, the current County Exec.
     
  9. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    Last Friday, Nassau County submited an economic development plan to NY State - in order to qualify for a pool of state economic development aid.

    A new Coliseum in Uniondale is still Plan A - the Coliseum would share the current and surrounding site with biotech R & D and residential development.

    Belmont would also have sports and entertainment development - including a potential soccer stadium and the Shinnecock casino proposal. Belmont would be a Plan B for the Coliseum if it can't fit in with the planned Hub R & D development.

    http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/coliseum-research-lab-in-new-county-plan-1.3246749
    The Newsday piece also embeds the full 32 page development proposal description.
     
  10. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    Overhead views of the current NVMC site, the planned development, and the adjacent Mitchell Field area (where the plan also envisions an exposition center, track and field venue, and a minor league ballpark for the LI Ducks.

    [​IMG]

    The Coliseum is envisioned as seating only 16-17.5K, and the transit improvements are just shuttle busses - not light rail of an LIRR extension.

    If this is the best they can do - a new small Coliseum squeezed into a corner of the development with a humongous parking garage - I think it's Belmont Plan-B or bye-bye Islanders (as far as Nassau is concerned). I can't see Nassau with it's high costs attracting that kind of R & D investment from the private sector (either real estate developers or biotech companies). The consensus on the Isles board seems to agree.
     
  11. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    Thanks for posting the detailed proposals including site plans kdb. Its early days yet, the 14th being just this past Friday, awaiting some comment from the Isles & Wang on this thing... little point in speculating on what his response might be however, Im' not thinkin its going to be dreadfully positive be it Plan 'A' or 'B' with Belmont. Does he therefore sell & move on with his life or does the NHL facilitate his relocation & or sale for relo if it comes down to it?. Theres just gotta be people who would give their eye teeth to own a pro franchise, the Islanders specifically in that area even absent the massive gravy train of extraneous revenue streams with a stake in the developments.
     
  12. LadyStanley

    LadyStanley RIP Fugu

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    http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/nhl-chief-islanders-deadline-gets-close-1.3269809

    Bettman issues warning.

     
  13. Killion

    Killion Registered User

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    And some of you people want Gary Bettman to resign or retire, be fired or have a piano fall on his head...

    "...it would be malpractice for those in charge to let that happen". :biglaugh:

    Awesome. I hope he never retires, he certainly wont get fired, that leaves ya'll watchin Warner Brothers lookin 4Salvation.
     
  14. nyrmetros

    nyrmetros Registered User

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    Viable mass transit is a must... Belmont Park Lirr is not as awesome as people think.... At the moment at least.... And the nvmc has nothing but abandoned lirr row's.....
     
  15. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    And the new Coliseum plan du jour doesn't do much to fix that - it just adds shuttle busses from the Mineola or Carle Place LIRR stations.
     
  16. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    More NIMBY-ism coming out of the woodwork for any casino development at Belmont:

    http://www.antonnews.com/floralpark...e-village-of-floral-park-october-20-2011.html
     
  17. Tinalera

    Tinalera Registered User

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    I could make a joke about termite terraces, but that would be in poor taste ;)


    I think that it's really quite a shame that a team with as much history as the isles have, with that multiple cup wins and just general feel of the team, that it almost seems to be, as kdb pointed out, the NIMBY-ism going on and that they can't come to agreement to find someplace, ANY PLACE, to build an arena.

    Just goes to show what a different time we live in, sadly.
     
  18. gordie

    gordie 5x

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    Islanders have the last two months of this year and all of 2012 and if they don't have something done by then so that shovels can start going into the ground somewhere, then it probably won't happen at all and certainly not by 2015. At that point Quebec City and its new arena looks like a real alternative to the NHL.
     
  19. kdb209

    kdb209 Registered User

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    Somewhat OT - but this is the most recent Barclays Center-ish thread.

    Ratner unveils designs for first Atlantic Yards residential towers adjacent to the Barclays Center.

    http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/11/17/design-unveiled-for-tower-at-atlantic-yards/

    [​IMG]

     
  20. I was wondering about this. The situation is pretty dire isn't it? They're probably moving to Brooklyn if this one doesn't get done no?
     
  21. Kane One

    Kane One Registered User

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    I would assume they would just play there until they get a new arena. The sight-lines wouldn't be great there for hockey and there won't be enough seats. It would be cool if they renovate Barclays Center because it would be a lot easier for me to get there.
     
  22. knorthern knight

    knorthern knight Registered User

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    Renovating an existing structure is rather expensive. Technically, the arena is supposed to hold 14,500 for hockey, but I share your concerns about sight lines. 14,500 good seats should be viable. If a significant chunk of them can't see the entire rink, it's a no-go.
     
  23. Mr Atoz*

    Mr Atoz* Guest

    Other than those 4 years, the islanders have virtually no history other than futility, horrendous trades, incompetent revolving door ownership, and threats to leave.
     
  24. NYRFAN218

    NYRFAN218 King Sponsor

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  25. MNNumbers

    MNNumbers Registered User

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    I'm new here. NBA is played on a 94' court, right? NHL on a 200' rink. Where does the rink fit in here? Same orientation as basketball court, or crosswise? And, how would the upper deck then be obstructed?

    Thanks.
     

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