Another day, another Islanders arena proposal (UPD - Bettman issues deadline warning)

[kdb209]

I'm new here. NBA is played on a 94' court, right? NHL on a 200' rink. Where does the rink fit in here? Same orientation as basketball court, or crosswise? And, how would the upper deck then be obstructed?

Thanks.

I haven't seen a seating chart for hockey at the Barclays Center, but I would expect it to be similar to the Key Arena and America West Arena / US Airways Center:

The lower bowl's cavity is too small to accomodate an NHL ice sheet, so they had to remove lower bowl seats on one end and extend the rink up to that end - the overhang from the upper bowl obstructs the view from the upper bowl. In some seats in AWA, you literally couldn't see the near 1/3 of the ice.

 

[kdb209]

Again, even more OT - but this is still the most recent Barclays Center-ish thread.

Nets and Barclays Center owner Mikhail Prokhorov announced he is running against Vladimir Putin.

Billionaire and Ex-Minister to Oppose Putin in Russian Presidential Election

Billionaire and Ex-Minister to Oppose Putin in Russian Presidential Election
By ELLEN BARRY and DAVID M. HERSZENHORN
Published: December 12, 2011

MOSCOW — Amid a crescendo of complaints from Russians fed up with the country’s tightly controlled political system, two prominent figures — a billionaire industrialist and the recently ousted finance minister — sought to fill a void in the opposition leadership on Monday.

The billionaire, Mikhail D. Prokhorov, who owns shares in a major gold mining company and an array of other ventures in Russia as well as the New Jersey Nets basketball franchise in the United States, said he would run for president, challenging Prime Minister Vladimir V. Putin.

This may not end well - just ask Mikhail Khodorkovsky.

 

[kdb209]

Overhead views of the current NVMC site, the planned development, and the adjacent Mitchell Field area (where the plan also envisions an exposition center, track and field venue, and a minor league ballpark for the LI Ducks.

It looks like Nassau may be going ahead with developing the Mitchell Field Athletic Complex adjacent to the Coliseum site.

County gets 2 bids to develop Nassau Hub

Nassau County has received two bids to build an enclosed sports and exposition center at the Mitchel Field Athletic Complex in Uniondale -- the first major development in the Hub region in more than a decade, county officials said.

Both proposals would privately finance an athletic complex that would bring in revenue for the cash-strapped county, said Brian Nevin, spokesman for County Executive Edward Mangano. Details on the cost of the projects, and the revenue they would bring in, were not made public.
...

The dueling proposals each call for a year-round multipurpose athletic field but otherwise offer different visions for the 2.5-acre property.

One bid from the Long Island Rough Riders soccer team envisions an outdoor 3,000-seat soccer stadium. The Rough Riders, who plays home games at Saint Anthony's High School in South Huntington , would return to Mitchel Field after a six-year absence, according to the plan.

The proposal also features a 10,000-seat indoor exposition center with locker rooms, a merchandise store and a physical therapy center.

...

The other bid came from Nassau Sports and Events LLC, composed of a group of investors led by Garden City businessman Mickey Blum.

The group proposed a nearly 106,000-square-foot facility, including a 60,000 square feet of synthetic turf, basketball and volleyball courts, a rock-climbing wall and a fitness studio. The facility also would have an arcade, laser tag, batting cages, stores, meeting and party rooms, and a cafe, Nevin said.

 

[kdb209]

Here we go again ...

http://www.newsday.com/sports/hockey/islanders/mangano-tries-again-to-get-hub-developer-1.3825413

Mangano tries again to get Hub developer
Originally published: July 7, 2012 8:17 PM
Updated: July 7, 2012 8:58 PM
By RANDI F. MARSHALL AND ROBERT BRODSKY

In another attempt to keep the Islanders, Nassau County Executive Edward Mangano is seeking a developer to coordinate the construction of a new or renovated arena, along with housing and retail, on the land around Nassau Coliseum.

But team officials did not return calls for comment, and it remains unclear whether they support Mangano's latest plan. Islanders owner Charles Wang has said his team will not stay in the current arena past 2015, when his lease expires, and that he is evaluating other possible locations.

To jump-start the new arena effort, Nassau County is expected Monday to release a Request for Qualifications seeking a "master developer" for the Nassau Hub property. The winning developer would be required to "immediately begin negotiations" with the Islanders and the arena's management, Pennsylvania-based SMG, the RFQ is expected to say.

The goal, Mangano said, is to make up the difference between what Wang is willing to pay as the Coliseum's tenant and the total price tag of a new or renovated arena. The plan does not detail how much Wang would contribute. No county money is involved, Mangano said.

...

Islanders senior vice president Michael Picker did not return calls for comment last week.

In an interview in February, Picker indicated Wang likely would not participate in a bidding process to redevelop the site. A source close to the situation said Friday that the position hasn't changed.

...

Mangano said plans would have to meet Hempstead's zoning guidelines. Town spokesman Michael Deery said the zoning allows for an arena and enough development to spur economic activity. "We applaud any efforts that embrace these same goals," Deery said.

Desmond Ryan, executive director of the Association For a Better Long Island, a development group, said several developers may apply.

"This may be the light at the end of the tunnel after a 20-year saga," he said.
Said Garden City developer Vincent Polimeni: "I'm interested, but it all depends on what the RFQ requires."

Nassau Democratic Party chairman Jay Jacobs called Republican Mangano's plan "counterproductive" because it removes the county's ability to deal directly with the Islanders' leadership.

Jacobs suggests that the county should earmark $1.5 million in annual entertainment tax, with Wang providing the rest.

Observers said Wang's role remains the big question mark.

"It sounds plausible depending on how much Charles Wang is willing to participate," said John Durso, who heads the Long Island Federation of Labor, a union group.
Noting the team's 2015 deadline, Durso said: "The ship has not sailed, but it's getting ready to go."

 

[Killion]

... well, so long as Wang plays petulant & refuses to engage let alone participate, whats the point of asking for bids on a combination arena/commercial/retail & housing development & or renovations to Nassau Coliseum?. That guy from the Labour Federation has it right; "the ship hasnt sailed but its getting ready to leave".

 

[kdb209]

... whats the point of asking for bids on a combination arena/commercial/retail & housing development & or renovations to Nassau Coliseum?.

So Mangano and the Republicans can point fingers at the Democrats for not being supportive, say "I did everything I could", and pass the blame if/when the Isles leave.

 

[Killion]

So Mangano and the Republicans can point fingers at the Democrats for not being supportive, say "I did everything I could", and pass the blame if/when the Isles leave.

... charming. Whats happened to the Belmont plans kdb?. Or has Wang again shown no interest, desire to even engage?.

 

[Confucius]

Bettman issues deadline, lmao. Big deal! It's not like he couldn't extend it or anything

 

[Dado]

So what are we realistically looking at here - the team moving to Brooklyn?

 

[Crease]

I'd like to see them build a new arena on Long Island but I'm not sure if that's economically feasible anymore. The next best option would be Brooklyn or Queens. Couple of questions:

1. Could the New York Rangers block the Islanders from moving to Brooklyn/Queens?

2. If not, could you see the market developing into an LA/Anaheim dynamic?

 

[Killion]

So what are we realistically looking at here - the team moving to Brooklyn?

...its a conundrum Dado, and no one really knows. Wangs' not talkin, nor does he seem willing to even look at upgrading the existing facility and or replacing it with anything short of his full-on LightHouse Development.

So does he sell to someone who has less ambitious plans? There just has to be any number of wealthy individuals in the area or not who would give their eye teeth to own an NHL franchise in the Jersey/NYC/LI triangle one would think. Curiously Jerseys having all kinds of problems in securing investors, though that likely has more to do with its debt.

Does the league let him either move the team himself or sell it for relocation to say QC, Seattle, or perhaps receive an even bigger payday, selling to Markham or Hamilton?. The Isles come-with a handsome broadcast contract but still, as they shockingly havent turned much of a profit & in fact have been losing money throughout their entire existence including the salad days in the late 70's & early 80's, were left guessing....

 

[aqib]

I'd like to see them build a new arena on Long Island but I'm not sure if that's economically feasible anymore. The next best option would be Brooklyn or Queens. Couple of questions:

1. Could the New York Rangers block the Islanders from moving to Brooklyn/Queens?

2. If not, could you see the market developing into an LA/Anaheim dynamic?

No because Brooklyn and Queens are on the Island.

 

[aqib]

So what are we realistically looking at here - the team moving to Brooklyn?

Nah whichever southern Ontario city doesn't get an expansion team.

Coyotes to QC at the end of the month.

2 expansion teams - 1 in Seattle 1 in Hamilton or Markham

Islanders to Hamilton or Markham.

 

[knorthern knight]

Nah whichever southern Ontario city doesn't get an expansion team.

Coyotes to QC at the end of the month.

2 expansion teams - 1 in Seattle 1 in Hamilton or Markham

Islanders to Hamilton or Markham.

Let's assume the Islanders don't get a new/improved arena on the island. I think that if Seattle has their arena anywhere near finished by mid-2015, they're the NHL's first choice. Failing that, the NHL will hold their noses and allow Hamilton in.

 

[danishh]

So what are we realistically looking at here - the team moving to Brooklyn?

this is a good question that has no good answers.

Lease expires in 2015 and Wang has stated that the team will move out of the collisium at that time. (only 3 years left)

Wang refuses to play ball anymore with nasseau county. (including the belmont development)

If wang wants to build a new arena somewhere else on long island, he's got 3 years to do it. Quebec's arena is slated to open in 2015 and is breaking ground in September this year. Wang is running out of time on the new arena front if he really intends to move out in 2015.

Looking at existing arenas, the brooklyn arena (Barclays Center) appears to be the only viable option on long island. That, however, comes with the caveat that as a secondary tenant, revenue streams will be limited and seating capacity for hockey in that arena is 14,500. Winnipeg can make it work at 15,000, but their ticket prices are higher. Considering the isles would keep their MSG tv contract (~25M a year by 2015), they could still make it work there.


Outside of that, the other options would be relocation, either with wang as an owner or through a sale.

-Kansas City: Sprint Center makes enough money without a tenant, so doubtful they would give up significant revenue streams to a hockey team that moved there.

-Seattle: Hard to believe Key Arena would be a viable option at a similar capacity but no mega tv deal forthcoming. The new Seattle Arena development plan is in it's very early stages, but if it has broken ground by 2015, key arena could be viable as a temporary venue. Steve Balmer is involved in the new seattle arena development group. At that point, they need to get approval from the NHL for relocation and purchase the team from wang.

-Portland: Rose garden is a viable NHL site, but you need interest/cooperation from paul allen.

-Quebec: Arena will be ready in time, PKP needs to get approval from the NHL for relocation and purchase the team from wang.

-Southern Ontario: Arena plans in markham are starting up, may be ready in time. Need ownership and then to get approval from the NHL for relocation and purchase the team from wang.






I personally speculate that Wang will wait to see what happens with this CBA before deciding whether he wants to continue to own this team or not. If he does, he may reengage with nasseau county developments or assess the viability of moving the team to brooklyn (are the devils and isles still scheduled to play a preseason game there this year?). If not, all bets are off.

 

[CREW99AW]

... charming. Whats happened to the Belmont plans kdb?. Or has Wang again shown no interest, desire to even engage?.

Wang has supported 2 plans.

The privately financed one he came up with.The publicly funded one Mangano came up with.Both were rejected.
Wang is waiting for someone else to come up with a plan that makes sense for him.
I don't blame him.He's taken losses for 112 s now and is dwn to 3 yrs.

He knows the County pols, will have to **** or get off the pot in just 3 more seasons.

 

[CREW99AW]

Lease expires in 2015 and Wang has stated that the team will move out of the collisium at that time. (only 3 years left)

Actually, Wang said they will not stay in the arena in the condition it is is,one day longer then the 2015 date.

If wang wants to build a new arena somewhere else on long island, he's got 3 years to do it. Quebec's arena is slated to open in 2015 and is breaking ground in September this year. Wang is running out of time on the new arena front if he really intends to move out in 2015.

Wang wll be ware that the Pens old lease expired in June 2007.
The Pens and PA pols, did not reach an agreement on the arena until March 2007.
If a last minute agreement is reached,Wang will likely be more open to spending 1-2 yrs in his current arena.

I personally speculate that Wang will wait to see what happens with this CBA before deciding whether he wants to continue to own this team or not. If he does, he may reengage with nasseau county developments or assess the viability of moving the team to brooklyn (are the devils and isles still scheduled to play a preseason game there this year?). If not, all bets are off.

My opinion is that Wang will not make any move until 2015 because he does not want to lose control, over the land surrounding the arena.No ownership of the team= losing control of the property.

 

[CREW99AW]

Let's assume the Islanders don't get a new/improved arena on the island. I think that if Seattle has their arena anywhere near finished by mid-2015, they're the NHL's first choice. Failing that, the NHL will hold their noses and allow Hamilton in.

So, local billionaire Nelson Peltz, who's tried to buy the team and been rebuffed,can step in with another offer.

 

[seeweed]

i'm really hoping wang GTFO the island before a new arena gets built. he has run a once great and proud franchise further into the ground.

 

[seeweed]

also, why does everyone have to bring in relocation talks all the time?

the COYOTES need to relocate. not the islanders.

 

[CREW99AW]

i'm really hoping wang GTFO the island before a new arena gets built. he has run a once great and proud franchise further into the ground.

11/12 yrs ago,Wang bought the team.At that time local pols promised him a new arena.11/12 yrs later,they are still promising him a new arena.

Wang's mistake was trusting pols to keep their verbal promises,instead of getting a legally binding agreement before completing the sale.

 

[danishh]

also, why does everyone have to bring in relocation talks all the time?

the COYOTES need to relocate. not the islanders.

the islanders need a better arena than the one they have. It has to be at least agreed upon by 2015.

that doesnt necessarily mean relocation, it means

a) massive renovations of the coliseum
b) new arena development at the current coliseum site
c) new arena development at belmont
d) move to another arena within the same market (ie barclays center)
e) relocate to another market

 

[CREW99AW]

the islanders need a better arena than the one they have. It has to be at least agreed upon by 2015.

that doesnt necessarily mean relocation, it means

a) massive renovations of the coliseum
b) new arena development at the current coliseum site
c) new arena development at belmont
d) move to another arena within the same market (ie barclays center)
e) relocate to another market

The Lighthouse project was Wang's proposal.It called for a $200m major renovation,not a new arena.

There are too many unknowns to be able to predict, how the NYI situation will unfold.

A few yrs ago,Wang explored buying the NJ Nets so he'd have 2nd tenant for his Lighthouse project.
Will Ratner's group make a bid on buying the isles,so Barcay's has a 2nd tenant?
Will Peltz still be lurking in 3 more seasons?
What will be Nassau County's final offer be in 2015?
Can Ratner's group top Nassau County's final offer,convincing Wang to move in as a tenant?

 

[Kane One]

I'd like to see them build a new arena on Long Island but I'm not sure if that's economically feasible anymore. The next best option would be Brooklyn or Queens. Couple of questions:

1. Could the New York Rangers block the Islanders from moving to Brooklyn/Queens?

2. If not, could you see the market developing into an LA/Anaheim dynamic?

The answer to your first question is no.

 

[aqib]

i'm really hoping wang GTFO the island before a new arena gets built. he has run a once great and proud franchise further into the ground.

The franchise was in the ground before Wang got there. You had Spano followed by Gluckstern/Milstein.

also, why does everyone have to bring in relocation talks all the time?

the COYOTES need to relocate. not the islanders.

Well I can't speak for everyone but I want a couple of more teams up in Canada so you show me a struggling team with a questionable future and I have a home for it. In Canada. Until QC/Markham/Hamilton all have teams every team that struggles will be a candidate to move. I really don't care if its Phoenix, Nashville, Carolina, or Florida that fills those spots