Post-Game Talk: Another blown lead. 3-2 OT Flyers

[6ix]

I can totally understand playing dump and chase with the Kadri and Gauthier line as those are supposed to be our defensive lines, but why the hell doesn't Babcock have a system for the Bozak and Matthews line? Our overpaid 8 million a year egomaniac coach couldn't "put in the work" this off season to design an offensive system to go along with our defensive system? There's no creativity because there's no change. Teams know what we are trying to do and shut us down.

 

[PromisedLand]

Patty Kane cannot dump and chase he is useless. It is not like he has won cups or scored cup winning goals or anything.....

 

[Pookie]

Re: the debate of Possession vs Dump and Chase

It’s almost pointless to have as the style of play is situation and team dependent.

You don’t play the same system every game.

You don’t ask all players to play the same way (Martin vs Matthews)n.

You don’t play the same way in all match ups.

You don’t play the same way in all game situations (defending a lead, special teams, etc).

 

[zeke]

Just saw another angle of the OT goal, I reverse my blame. That is totally on Gardiner (I had put the blame on Nylander last night)

eh, they're both to blame.

but it doesn't matter - that's 3 on 3 hockey.

We got a great chance, didn't score. They got a great chance, scored. That's what happens in 3on3 hockey.

The actual problem is that we're just not scoring goals anymore.

 

[IPS]

Crosby carries the puck MORE OFTEN THAN NOT instead of dumping it in and then owns people on the boards with his edgework

There were stats posted about this not long ago.

And dear god, Crosby a dump-and-chase player??? There's a monumental difference between a player thriving on the boards and being a dump-and-chase player.

 

[RadekBong]

Wow, just a brutal assessment of what is the team’s MVP this season.

Are you denying that he's gotten beaten clean several times on game deciding goals?

 

[IPS]

Why the F would a skilled player dump and chase? they have the skill.

how many zone entries did Flyers get relative to dump and chase and then compare it to the Leafs.

Its a JOKE!

Dump and chase is for players like Hyman, Komarov, Martin etc... Who cannot stick handle the friggen puck and carry it

Dump and chase is great when you're the 2011/2013 Boston Bruins with Milan Lucic bearing down on opposing teams' defensmen.

You don't make players like Patrick Kane and Johnny Gaudreau dump and chase. That's a terrific way to ruin their game.

 

[MorrisSmit89]

Nylander was to take the man without the puck period.

If Nylander was to take the man without the puck, then why did Andy aggressively take the shooter? Did Gardiner mess up or did Nylander AND Andy mess up?

 

[mulefarm]

Sometimes the other team makes good plays. It isn’t like the other team and players aren’t skilled and trying to win.

 

[rdogg]

Seems almost like a guarantee that the Leafs will pick 16th overall this year in the draft.

That is assuming of course that they start winning games again and don't get passed by Florida, Detroit, or MTL

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Are we regressing? 2nd blown lead in 4 games now.

Gardiner and Nylander needed to communicate there. Gardiner should’ve either pointed for Nylander to go after Couturier or gone after Couturier himself when he saw Nylander closing the gap on Konecny.

I'm watching Dangle now and he's going through the winning goal, and he showed something I forgot to consider.

Nylander was right there with Couturier at the start of that two on one, but abandons him to chase the puck carrier, Konecny.

I blamed Gardiner earlier for not communicating to Nylander to take Couturier, but Nylander was literally right beside his man when the counter-attack started, but chose to chase Konecny instead.

Gardiner still makes a dumb mistake of going after the puck carrier to, but Nylander I feel messed up first by leaving his man to go after Konecny. Gardiner should've still played the pass when he recognized Nylander was essentially putting him into a two on one position, but he shouldn't have been placed there in the first place.

 

[Apotheosis]

The Leafs have comparable (superior even to Chicago offensively) talent to Pittsburgh, but are trying to play a Boston/LA circa 2011-2013 game. It's a travesty.

 

[Gallagbi]

Gardiner still makes a dumb mistake of going after the puck carrier to, but Nylander I feel messed up first by leaving his man to go after Konecny. Gardiner should've still played the pass when he recognized Nylander was essentially putting him into a two on one position, but he shouldn't have been placed there in the first place.

This is a good summary, Nylander makes it a 2on1 instead of a 2on2, but it's still a misplayed 2on1.

 

[IBeL34f]

Re: the debate of Possession vs Dump and Chase

It’s almost pointless to have as the style of play is situation and team dependent.

You don’t play the same system every game.

You don’t ask all players to play the same way (Martin vs Matthews)n.

You don’t play the same way in all match ups.

You don’t play the same way in all game situations (defending a lead, special teams, etc).

I agree with this, for sure. We need to be able to beat all kinds of teams all kinds of different ways.

We know we can outscore teams if we ignore other facets of the game - (We've seen that both last season and the beginning of this season) - Now we need to make sure we can learn to win those tight-checking games while ensuring we don't lose sight of other responsibilities (keeping the puck out of our net). It's provided some tough lessons for some of our younger players, but hopefully will pay off in the future. We've got some really smart, really talented young players in our organization, I'm sure they can figure it out.

 

[diceman934]

you don't have to play dump and chase to have playoff success

Pitt/Chi have 5 recent cups between them and neither played that system . LA/Bos have 3 cups and were big physical teams which played well defensively but we don't have anywhere near the type of personal they did.

basically you can win with pretty much any style as long as it suits your personal

You most certainly do have to play dump and chase to be successfully as you need to keep the puck safe and eliminate mistake and avoid high risk plays when protecting leads.

All the cup winners followed a similar path with getting the puck out of their zone and placing it 200 ft from their net. All!

 

[diceman934]

If Nylander was to take the man without the puck, then why did Andy aggressively take the shooter? Did Gardiner mess up or did Nylander AND Andy mess up?

Goalie always has to play the shot..if not he gets beat by the puck carrier. Nylander failed to identify his man leaving Gardiner in no mans land.

 

[CelticDruid]

Goalie always has to play the shot..if not he gets beat by the puck carrier. Nylander failed to identify his man leaving Gardiner in no mans land.

Game has been over nearly 24 hrs who cares anymore?

 

[egd27]

The Leafs have comparable (superior even to Chicago offensively) talent to Pittsburgh, but are trying to play a Boston/LA circa 2011-2013 game. It's a travesty.

No, they don't.

 

[Trapper]

Patty Kane cannot dump and chase he is useless. It is not like he has won cups or scored cup winning goals or anything.....

There is nothing wrong with rush incorporated into your game along with controlled entries, dump and chase, strong cycle.
But if you are doing the Patty Kane you can't turn it over 5/6 times out of 10 and you need linemates that have defense to have your back.
Bozak won't save you and neither he nor JVR can cycle well down low. JVR/Bozak rarely carry it in so D can focus on Marner's side.
Also because they have no cycle, zone maintaining ability, after the rush it's 1 and done and you have to recover defensively.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Goalie always has to play the shot..if not he gets beat by the puck carrier. Nylander failed to identify his man leaving Gardiner in no mans land.

leaving Gardiner in no mans land? what are you talking about lol

Yes, we know Nylander should have taken the other guy from the start, but Jake played it like a dumpster fire and he had plenty of time to adjust to Nylander going after the puck carrier. Another of your bad takes ...

 

[PromisedLand]

There is nothing wrong with rush incorporated into your game along with controlled entries, dump and chase, strong cycle.
But if you are doing the Patty Kane you can't turn it over 5/6 times out of 10 and you need linemates that have defense to have your back.
Bozak won't save you and neither he nor JVR can cycle well down low. JVR/Bozak rarely carry it in so D can focus on Marner's side.
Also because they have no cycle, zone maintaining ability, after the rush it's 1 and done and you have to recover defensively.

JVR Bozak should have been gone at the beginning of this season. I still don’t understand why are they still wearing the blue and white

 

[HamiltonNHL]

JVR Bozak should have been gone at the beginning of this season. I still don’t understand why are they still wearing the blue and white

Nobody wanted them.
Trades in the NHL are difficult

 

[PromisedLand]

Nobody wanted them.
Trades in the NHL are difficult

TDL coming up, hoping something can be had for them

 

[cookie]

 

[Gabriel426]

Seems almost like a guarantee that the Leafs will pick 16th overall this year in the draft.

That is assuming of course that they start winning games again and don't get passed by Florida, Detroit, or MTL

Or they just miss the playoffs and win the lottery.
Or they can go on a 22 games winning streaks the moment the start scoring goals.