Post-Game Talk: Another blown lead. 3-2 OT Flyers

[Daisy Jane]

Oh so he only followed 2/3 of the HF plan........what a tool.

 

[Suntouchable13]

Babcock is designing his lineup to get a point, instead of actually building a lineup to win.

 

[Mess]

Babcock would be happy with Breakaway Brown scoring to make it 1-0 every 3rd period.
People worry about Marner not scoring. Babs worry about Marner not defending.
If we are going to incorporate a dump and chase/heavy forecheck plus rush into the system, we need player upgrades around.

If you asked the coach he would tell you the primary goal with his game plan of every game is to race to 3 goals for in regulation, as he attempts to hold the opposition to 2 goals or less against nightly and his offensively gifted and deep forwards proving him the 3 goals support based on their talent to score.

Just look at how many games Freddy A gives up 2 or less goals in regulation, with key role defensive players Hyman, Leo and Brownie getting big minutes to help Andersen and the Dcore achieve that objective defensively. This is the part that is working to perfection as role players the coach relies on the most are delivering in spades..

The part that is broken is the offensively gifted players missing their 3GF/g mark nightly, game after game. With Leafs skill and forward depth there is really no excuse for their lack of contribution, and until they do the losses will mount unfortunately. The redeeming part of all this is that with soooooo much offensive talent among the top 10 forwards it will only be a matter of time that Babs hopes his plan will work, as it seems incomprehensible to believe this group of forwards can't muster 3 goals and night. He has already proven to them and everyone they have the skill to score in bunches and at will at times, all he is asking differently of them now is to be more defensively conscience in that pursuit.

Its quite simple strategy really, because if you have a team goals against average of ~ 2.0 GA/g then 3 goals for = wins most nights.

 

[Nithoniniel]

There's a great article on the Athletic explaining how that play happened and what should of happened.

Yeah, read that and conceded that I was wrong. Though some of the smarter posters around here had already pointed out that even if Nylander straight up picked up the wrong guy, that shouldn't matter if Gardiner played that better. The article explained well why even that decision from Nylander isn't exactly wrong. I've been harsh on Willie lately, so I'm more the fool now for it.

but Hyman is doing well.
(sigh) paging @Nithoniniel to explain why. again.

Oh, sure. Here goes:

Because I say so, dammit!

On a more serious note, I'm trying to cut down getting involved in discussions with people who don't really care what you have to say.

 

[member 262271]

I think blaming individual players is a lesson in futility, bottom line the team isn't good enough, and the effort isn't there on too many nights, and as a fan that promotes apathy. Or rage, whatever floats your boat.

 

[hotpaws]

What personnel do you think they have exactly? You think its sustainable to win 5-4 games every night? Thats a pipe dream. Its the coach's job to make this team a "team" and win games, not pad players stats. His job is make them solid NHL players, great players will be great no matter what. Trying to get players to be responsible defensively isn't exclusive to Babcock. That is all NHL coaches. I think we are seeing that some players either cannot or will not commit to being all around players, and the coaches job is to weed those guys out.

and what does this have to do with implementing a system that doesn't suit the personal of the team ?

all i've heard is the new NHL is about puck possession and now that our high profile coach has gone to an anti possession dump and chase system you have fans like yourself defending his decision even though it's clearly now working , if Wilson or RC did this they'd be getting crucified yet because it's Babcock he gets blind support

also you can be defensively responsible in a puck possession system just as easily as playing dump and chase and no one's advocating playing run and gun pond hockey , Vegas plays an up tempo hard working defensively responsible game and they're neither sacrificing offense nor defense which has led them to one of the best records in the league

our key personal are gifted offensive players , stifling there creativity and asking Marner and Nylander to a dump and chase system which they aren't built for or need to play to be effective is absurd

and you speak of "all around players" and then seem to support playing Komo/Hyman insane mins when both are severely limited offensively , being "all around players" mean you're somewhat effective at both ends of the ice and not simply being carried by your linemates (in Hyman's case)

 

[hotpaws]

but Hyman is doing well.
(sigh) paging @Nithoniniel to explain why. again.

2 even strength goals and 3 overall in his last 37 game playing the mins he does and with the linemates he has is playing well ?

i guess my definition of playing well is very different than some others

and no , i don't buy the crap about how it's not his "role" to score on our top line and in the mins he gets

 

[GoonieFace]

and what does this have to do with implementing a system that doesn't suit the personal of the team ?

all i've heard is the new NHL is about puck possession and now that our high profile coach has gone to an anti possession dump and chase system you have fans like yourself defending his decision even though it's clearly now working , if Wilson or RC did this they'd be getting crucified yet because it's Babcock he gets blind support

also you can be defensively responsible in a puck possession system just as easily as playing dump and chase and no one's advocating playing run and gun pond hockey , Vegas plays an up tempo hard working defensively responsible game and they're neither sacrificing offense nor defense which has led them to one of the best records in the league

our key personal are gifted offensive players , stifling there creativity and asking Marner and Nylander to a dump and chase system which they aren't built for or need to play to be effective is absurd

and you speak of "all around players" and then seem to support playing Komo/Hyman insane mins when both are severely limited offensively , being "all around players" mean you're somewhat effective at both ends of the ice and not simply being carried by your linemates (in Hyman's case)

Did he stifle Datsyuk and Zetterberg offensively? How about Lidstrom? No.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Oh, sure. Here goes:

Because I say so, dammit!

On a more serious note, I'm trying to cut down getting involved in discussions with people who don't really care what you have to say.

i wish. i had that installed somewhere.

 

[GoonieFace]

2 even strength goals and 3 overall in his last 37 game playing the mins he does and with the linemates he has is playing well ?

i guess my definition of playing well is very different than some others

and no , i don't buy the crap about how it's not his "role" to score on our top line and in the mins he gets

What does that say for Nylander than? He plays on that line and plays the PP and he has 2 more goals than Hyman.

 

[hotpaws]

Its almost like this team is missing a barzalian influx and injection at the moment, needing someone who could score points like Crosby, OV or Malkin.

yes we could use Barzal but under our current system his speed and creativity would be neutered in a system designed to play to get to overtime and at least gain the loser point

 

[The Podium]

With the ongoing argument for putting the top line on to start OT, it just struck me as funny that it only took 18 seconds before we were handed a loss. Not exactly a compelling argument for the strategy. An "almost" goal doesn't really change it either.

Is Matthews a great player? Yes. The best we've seen in a long, long time. Does that mean he should always start in OT? No, not necessarily. I think you need to look at matchups and what will give you the best chance overall.

He IS an all-star, a franchise player. He MIGHT be a generational player, a HoF-er. Most of those guys are obvious right from their first game, not all of them though.

You should always play your best line to start as the away team. Home team with final change will just avoid matching their best line against our shutdown and then end up with an unfavourable matchup on the next shift.

 

[hotpaws]

Did he stifle Datsyuk and Zetterberg offensively? How about Lidstrom? No.

all of your examples are of players who were much older when Babs took over the team and were all much more developed than MM and Willie

 

[The Podium]

and what does this have to do with implementing a system that doesn't suit the personal of the team ?

all i've heard is the new NHL is about puck possession and now that our high profile coach has gone to an anti possession dump and chase system you have fans like yourself defending his decision even though it's clearly now working , if Wilson or RC did this they'd be getting crucified yet because it's Babcock he gets blind support

also you can be defensively responsible in a puck possession system just as easily as playing dump and chase and no one's advocating playing run and gun pond hockey , Vegas plays an up tempo hard working defensively responsible game and they're neither sacrificing offense nor defense which has led them to one of the best records in the league

our key personal are gifted offensive players , stifling there creativity and asking Marner and Nylander to a dump and chase system which they aren't built for or need to play to be effective is absurd

and you speak of "all around players" and then seem to support playing Komo/Hyman insane mins when both are severely limited offensively , being "all around players" mean you're somewhat effective at both ends of the ice and not simply being carried by your linemates (in Hyman's case)

Gallant is easily the best coach in the league. Thought so when he was with the Panthers, his Vegas stint has thus far confirmed it.

 

[hotpaws]

What does that say for Nylander than? He plays on that line and plays the PP and he has 2 more goals than Hyman.

it says he having a bad year and unlike Hyman no one's praising him for his lack of scoring

 

[ACC1224]

Its almost like this team is missing a barzalian influx and injection at the moment, needing someone who could score points like Crosby, OV or Malkin.

Interesting. Most feel it's the style of play that is stifling the offense, you feel the youth just aren't good enough?

 

[Daisy Jane]

Babcock is designing his lineup to get a point, instead of actually building a lineup to win.

well i think if the Leafs didn't have two really big breakdowns (including one on the winning goal), we would have had a win. like. honestly.

What does that say for Nylander than? He plays on that line and plays the PP and he has 2 more goals than Hyman.

i was gonna say.

 

[hotpaws]

Gallant is easily the best coach in the league. Thought so when he was with the Panthers, his Vegas stint has thus far confirmed it.

his making a strong case for it , what he's doing in Vegas is truly remarkable

 

[diceman934]

I think everyone just needs to gear down a little.

Our young team is in the process of learning and playing in a system that will be required to be successful when in the playoffs.

In their haste to attempt to win games they are making mistakes.

We will see a change real soon and then all the naysayers can quickly jump back on the band wagon and say “ I told you so” and the ones who were never on the band wagon can simply piss off.

 

[IBeL34f]

all of your examples are of players who were much older when Babs took over the team and were all much more developed than MM and Willie

I apologize that this sounds snarky, because it's not my intention, but what exactly is your point here? Surely a coach holds all players on their team to their system, including the veterans

 

[ACC1224]

I think everyone just needs to gear down a little.

Our young team is in the process of learning and playing in a system that will be required to be successful when in the playoffs.

In their haste to attempt to win games they are making mistakes.

We will see a change real soon and then all the naysayers can quickly jump back on the band wagon and say “ I told you so” and the ones who were never on the band wagon can simply piss off.

Gear down?? There are some that wait for any hint of things not going well, last month has been a godsend for some.

 

[Al14]

Oh so he only followed 2/3 of the HF plan........what a tool.

I guess Babcock trusted Gardiner more over Rielly or Hainsey. It doesn't make him a tool, but, his trust in Gardiner, and Polak, make me question his decision making at times.

 

[hotpaws]

I apologize that this sounds snarky, because it's not my intention, but what exactly is your point here? Surely a coach holds all players on their team to their system, including the veterans

it means the examples he gave were of players who were all much older and developed when he started to coach them and Det didn't play dump and chase like Babs is doing here

 

[GoonieFace]

it means the examples he gave were of players who were all pretty much older and developed when he started to coach them and Det didn't play dump and chase like Babs is doing here

Well, I believe Datsyuk played 3 NHL seasons and Zetterberg 2 before Babcock got there, so they were not veteran NHL players. And his system did not deter them from being elite offensive players. I'm not saying Nylander and Marner won't be, but they better wake up and learn.

 

[The Podium]

I guess Babcock trusted Gardiner more over Rielly or Hainsey. It doesn't make him a tool, but, his trust in Gardiner, and Polak, make me question his decision making at times.

I believe the opposite actually. He probably trusted Rielly to be more of a shutdown D so he was going to pair him with Hyman/Komarov.