Andrey "The Moscow Monster" Pedan

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Bleach Clean

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He explained it. Maybe read his posts again.


Alternate's 'hope based analysis' doesn't really explain anything. Alternate's rationale is based on future development that belies past performance. MS's post looks back first, assesses what Pedan has done in reality, and then projects forward. Meaning: How could alternate critique a post for its hyperbole if the post shows its homework?

Not to mention, critiquing a post on hyperbole and not content is a red herring in of itself.
 

Bad Goalie

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Andrey Pedan joined the Comets during the 2014-15 season. He appeared to be very raw, was weak positionally in his own zone particularly away from the puck, and had a desire to hit everything and anything which wasn't good either. He also had a penchant to fight which would be his Waterloo.

Green and Baumgartner went to work and cut his hitting down to the appropriate situations. He could still hit and hit hard, but only when it was right for the play at hand. A hit that took him out of the play, left his post deserted, or got him trapped up ice was not good for him or the team.

They conditioned him to make the quick head man pass and those passes were hard and accurate. He became super at the tape to tape stretch pass. He became unbeatable one on one taking the man and not the puck. His long reach became an asset. His skating began to look much better as he was under control in his play. He also exhibited an absolute bomb from the point, but it was equally dangerous to any player on the ice when he let it go because the accuracy was horrible, but when it was on he hurt the defenders trying to block it and the goalies were challenged to stop it, never mind controlling the rebound. They got him to take a little off the shot in order to gain some control and make it more accurate. He reached the point where we here in Utica were reporting he just might be turning into a serious prospect and losing a 3rd for him (that's really what he cost since Mallet wasn't worth a cent) was a good investment.

Then he got knocked out in a fight, suffered a major concussion that cost him the last 1/3 of the season and the entire playoff run that lasted into June.

He came back in 2015-16 and worked to get back to where he had left off. Then he got his first call-up and when he eventually returned to Utica his career began a descent into Hockey Hell. You can go back to the Utica posts 2015-16 season and read post game report after post game report questioning what the Hell was Andrey doing. What happened to him. He was taking the puck every chance he got and skating it all over his own zone trying to eventually skate it up the ice all by himself. He was out of control and a result became a turnover machine by either losing the puck in all of his stick handling efforts or trying to pass it in desperation after running out of self maneuvering options. His accurate passing was gone. He was overplaying his man on the rush. He was tripping, hooking, slashing, and holding as a result. He was shooting the pick every chance he got whether it was the right thing to do or not. His wild shots were aiding the opponent in their breakout or he was hitting the shin pads of the forward charging out at him out creating breakaways and odd man rushes.

He would go up and down several more times over that season and this one as well. This year even with several call ups, he was never penciled into the lineup for a single game in Vancouver. His play in Utica was sporadic and as about inconsistent as you could want. He would have a great game and follow it up with a rotten one. We never knew which Andrey we would see, but no matter which one you could expect a couple noodle wrist clearing attempts that would end up as a scoring chances against and a couple of blind passes right into his own slot or onto the stick of an opponent in the circle well below the dot. His passing was erratic. His frustration penalties mounted. He was caught up ice on bad pinches way too often. He was often out of position in is own end ans was guilty of puck watching. The result was he finally got so bad that he became a healthy scratch on several occasions. He had regressed to the Andrey that we first saw when he arrived in the Fall of 2015.

He was not a third pairing D-man all season. He was all over the place in his pairings. He started out the season with Sautner with the intention being he would help Ashton along, carry him. Then he was with Robak as a first pairing. Then he saw a some time with Shields and then it was on to McEneny. A couple games with Nilsson until he got hurt again. A couple with Subban. Then a series of games with McEneny. Then back to Sautner and ended the season with McEneny. It was always the intention for him to anchor his pairing except when playing with Robak. He might not have appeared to be carrying out his role, but that was the intention.

I have to say I am as surprised as most of the posters here. I thought they might be able to include him in a trade for some help in Utica or simply release him. Then there was the thought he would follow Tryamkin back to Russia, but I think he really likes North America and has acclimated well to its culture. He wanted to stay here. I think he thinks he still belongs in Vancouver.

I hope they make a spot for him in Vancouver because if he plays this coming season in Utica the same way as the last one, he will be a detriment to the Comets and especially to Demko. Their D will be weak enough as it is without Andrey's negatives. Maybe Travis can convince him that there is only one solution for him and that is to reconstruct the game he had going before the concussion. If his drastic style change was the result of what he was told in Vancouver, that can be put behind him. If he can get back to playing solid D, position himself properly, make the good first pass, and hold the offensive blue line, there could be hope, but if he is the same guy we have have been scratching our heads over, put a fork in him because he is done, done, done.

No matter what, MS is correct. The Comets will still require a couple of solid AHL vets to anchor their defense and pair up with the developing kids. One needs to be their overall best D-man, strong both offensively and defensively. That guy is not among those we know the Canucks have signed. The other needs to a defensive standout. That guy is not among the signed either. Without them, the next season will be in the toilet before it begins. Pedan doesn't fit either of those roles nor do McEneny or Subban. Evan and Jordan were often paired together last season and it's time for them to prove they don't need a sitter so playing together is the best setup for them. If either of them proves to still need the sitter, that pretty much writes him off as an NHL player, especially Jordan. It's time for him to cut his path and Evan needs to be approaching the same level. Those that believe it will be good for Thatcher to be supported by what's currently signed are delusional.
 
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MS

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He explained it. Maybe read his posts again.

He gave some vague stuff about flashes and some vague hope about improving because he's still kinda young, and then finished up with the Utica equivalent of 'cap space doesn't matter'.

Again, if he's young and there's hope, please provide examples of guys who have been healthy scratches in their 4th pro season and then gone on to be useful NHL players.

You sign guys for Utica for 2 reasons:

1) they're a prospect that you hope has a legitimate shot at the NHL.

2) they're a quality veteran to pair with younger guys and serve as a call-up option.

Pedan is neither. He's a bust as a prospect and he's not a capable veteran defender. That we've gifted a roster spot to him and paid a big ticket veteran premium to him is nuts. It makes no sense.

We have 3-4 prospects in the AHL who will be playing regularly and we need 2-3 veteran guys (like a Fedun or a Billins) who can stabilize a pairing and help a young player out. Pedan is a veteran who still needs a babysitter. He sucks, and it's ridiculous to keep investing time and money in this player at the expense of better options. It's throwing good money after bad because they can't admit a mistake.
 

Verviticus

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"if he finds consistency" - no, if he gets better. hes not inconsistent, he's bad. stop using stupid euphemisms
 

F A N

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I don't really much care for this signing but Green did say (before this signing) that Pedan was knocking on the door. So whatever opinion you have of Pedan, it appears that Green likes him and I would assume Benning signed Pedan after consultation with Green. With that said, I've said this before, Benning might be better off not listening to his coach when it comes to player acquisitions and signings.
 

tantalum

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Sure Pedan might be knocking on the door to be a top 8 guy in an organization that essentially has zero depth. That's not really a ringing endorsement. There seems to be very little hope that he is truly knocking on the door of a NHL team. This is a poor signing. Not a disastrous one necessarily but a poor one. This is hand the guy a qualifier and if he signs it then fine and if not oh well. It is not a give the guy a raise and significant AHL salary.

But I'm not shocked.
 

MS

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I don't really much care for this signing but Green did say (before this signing) that Pedan was knocking on the door. So whatever opinion you have of Pedan, it appears that Green likes him and I would assume Benning signed Pedan after consultation with Green. With that said, I've said this before, Benning might be better off not listening to his coach when it comes to player acquisitions and signings.

Except he's clearly not knocking on the door of anything.

He's in his 4th year pro, and was a regular healthy scratch in the AHL this season. And has looked hopelessly out-of-place in NHL auditions in both the preseason and regular season. He's not even close to being an NHL player, and really not even close to being a guy you'd be comfortable calling up even as a short-term injury fill-in.

Pretty much every assessment from Utica fans (see Bad Goalie above) indicates the player was awful there from start to finish this year.

If you're a GM, you have to make good decisions and good player evaluations, and not be swayed by obviously terrible and biased viewpoints of people underneath you. If Green did in fact push for this signing.

And again, the bigger issue isn't that we just gave this player another chance, it's that we gave him a MASSIVE RAISE to one of the few premium AHL salaries we'll carry, a salary that should have gone to an actual top AHL defender to serve as some of the decent depth we were missing this season. Clearly Benning has learned nothing about how to build his AHL team.

Pedan is a nothing a this point. All he does is either block an actual prospect from getting regular icetime or prevent the team from signing a good veteran to play with the actual prospects.

__________

We didn't have enough veteran depth in Utica last year, and the only two quality veterans we had (Robak and Billins) are both UFAs. You can already see the problems forming for next year, and it's only early May.
 

Hit the post

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Maybe Green meant Pedan was 'knocking on the door' at being a solid AHL regular? I doubt a guy that managed to be scratched on occasion in the AHL (given the so-called "strength" of the Comets blueline) is that close to being ready 'for the big show'.
 

RobertKron

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I don't really much care for this signing but Green did say (before this signing) that Pedan was knocking on the door. So whatever opinion you have of Pedan, it appears that Green likes him and I would assume Benning signed Pedan after consultation with Green. With that said, I've said this before, Benning might be better off not listening to his coach when it comes to player acquisitions and signings.

Green's actions don't support this.
 

krutovsdonut

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Except he's clearly not knocking on the door of anything.

He's in his 4th year pro, and was a regular healthy scratch in the AHL this season. And has looked hopelessly out-of-place in NHL auditions in both the preseason and regular season. He's not even close to being an NHL player, and really not even close to being a guy you'd be comfortable calling up even as a short-term injury fill-in.

Pretty much every assessment from Utica fans (see Bad Goalie above) indicates the player was awful there from start to finish this year.

If you're a GM, you have to make good decisions and good player evaluations, and not be swayed by obviously terrible and biased viewpoints of people underneath you. If Green did in fact push for this signing.

And again, the bigger issue isn't that we just gave this player another chance, it's that we gave him a MASSIVE RAISE to one of the few premium AHL salaries we'll carry, a salary that should have gone to an actual top AHL defender to serve as some of the decent depth we were missing this season. Clearly Benning has learned nothing about how to build his AHL team.

Pedan is a nothing a this point. All he does is either block an actual prospect from getting regular icetime or prevent the team from signing a good veteran to play with the actual prospects.

__________

We didn't have enough veteran depth in Utica last year, and the only two quality veterans we had (Robak and Billins) are both UFAs. You can already see the problems forming for next year, and it's only early May.

i get it. you don't like his game. i don't either. but i think you're missing reality.

pedan was one injury away from nhl ice time on our roster multiple times last season.

now subtract tryamkin, larsen and possibly either sbisa or biega.

now factor in stecher facing the dreaded sophomore season.

now factor in the only other possible big team roster d adds at this point are juolevi and mcenemy, and both are a stretch.

now factor in the way vegas adding 50 contracts and an ahl team to the mix will be upsetting the ufa market this summer for both ahl dmen and bottom 6 nhl dmen.

now factor in that vegas will be working the waiver wires hard next year.

now factor in all the tanev trade talk. add in the fact pressure will mount to trade edler at the tdl if we stink next year.

basically, he's depth for a team with no depth or size on defence. losing tryamkin has hurt us a ton.
 

VanJack

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I don't mind the signing......bubble d-man who cleared waivers last year, and would likely do so again if he's sent to Utica.

There are some tools there....you can't teach 6'5" and 220, and the guy actually won the Canucks fastest skater competition during one of his call-ups....but Willie just never had any faith in him as a d-man, even trying him at forward.

Seems to me if he can ever learn to just keep it simple in his own zone, he'd be far better off....when he starts carrying it and trying to do things with the puck is when he gets himself in trouble....might be an 'Andrew Alberts' type of future for him.
 

tantalum

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i get it. you don't like his game. i don't either. but i think you're missing reality.

pedan was one injury away from nhl ice time on our roster multiple times last season.

now subtract tryamkin, larsen and possibly either sbisa or biega.

now factor in stecher facing the dreaded sophomore season.

now factor in the only other possible big team roster d adds at this point are juolevi and mcenemy, and both are a stretch.

now factor in the way vegas adding 50 contracts and an ahl team to the mix will be upsetting the ufa market this summer for both ahl dmen and bottom 6 nhl dmen.

now factor in that vegas will be working the waiver wires hard next year.

now factor in all the tanev trade talk. add in the fact pressure will mount to trade edler at the tdl if we stink next year.

basically, he's depth for a team with no depth or size on defence. losing tryamkin has hurt us a ton.

Yes we have all factored in Benning being a terrible GM that has created next to no depth whatsoever through three seasons at the helm.

Doesn't mean it's a good signing. There will be several better players than Pedan available for the money he signed for (NHL and AHL wages). The goal shouldn't be to have bodies. The goal needs to be to have bodies that are actually worth a damn. I'm not convinced Pedan is.
 

MS

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i get it. you don't like his game. i don't either. but i think you're missing reality.

pedan was one injury away from nhl ice time on our roster multiple times last season.

now subtract tryamkin, larsen and possibly either sbisa or biega.

now factor in stecher facing the dreaded sophomore season.

now factor in the only other possible big team roster d adds at this point are juolevi and mcenemy, and both are a stretch.

now factor in the way vegas adding 50 contracts and an ahl team to the mix will be upsetting the ufa market this summer for both ahl dmen and bottom 6 nhl dmen.

now factor in that vegas will be working the waiver wires hard next year.

now factor in all the tanev trade talk. add in the fact pressure will mount to trade edler at the tdl if we stink next year.

basically, he's depth for a team with no depth or size on defence. losing tryamkin has hurt us a ton.

First off, nobody should like his game. Because it's bad. He's a bad player, and if you think this player who couldn't even stay in an AHL lineup consistently in 16-17 represents any sort of quality NHL depth in 17-18, you're frankly delusional. Sorry if that's blunt, but this player simply isn't depth.

Second, to improve system depth the obvious thing to do is sign Colby Robak to a contract. Should be an absolute no-brainer. The guy has 50 games of NHL experience and was far and away the best defender in Utica last season according to every observer down there. Easy signing of a player who represents far better depth than Pedan and wouldn't be out of place as an NHL callup.

Third, if you're that obsessed with size, guys like Seth Helgeson and Dylan McIlrath are UFAs this summer and will be signing contracts similar to what we just gave Pedan. And are far better players, both to partner an AHL prospect with and as callup options.

Pedan is just complete junk. And convincing yourself that he represents 'depth' or 'size' or anything to help the NHL team when he wasn't good enough to stay in a bad AHL lineup is just not logical. At all.

Yes, we have depth issues next year. Absolutely. And that's what makes this signing SO BAD. It's taking the money that should have been earmarked for a player that actually represents depth and handing it to someone who doesn't. This signing actually makes our depth WORSE, not better.

__________

Like, this isn't a huge deal or anything, but the logic and process are so incredibly unsound that it gives is yet another window into how lost these guys are at building rosters in either the AHL or NHL.
 

vancityluongo

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Third, if you're that obsessed with size, guys like Seth Helgeson and Dylan McIlrath are UFAs this summer and will be signing contracts similar to what we just gave Pedan. And are far better players, both to partner an AHL prospect with and as callup options.

I think this is the key point in all of this. Either Benning and Linden simply don't have enough of a grasp of other players around the league to realize this (possible, but unheard of from "professionals"), or they refuse to acknowledge that trading a third for Pedan was a mistake. As much as the former makes sense, the latter follows the pattern they've held, Bonino and Clendening aside. They'll do whatever they can to "prove" that the trade was good by forcing the player into minutes and then blaming the overall situation for the poor performance. See Luca Sbisa, Brandon Sutter. The longer Pedan sticks around, the more we'll see posts along the lines of "oh, well for a third round pick he played 200 AHL games and 10 NHL games that's better than most."

To some extent, this is also the same line of thinking that got Mackenze Stewart a ****ing NHL contract. It just basically allows people to deflect any criticism of the player by appealing to the contract they were given... "Stewart sucks" "Not really, he has an NHL contract." "..."
 

krutovsdonut

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I think this is the key point in all of this. Either Benning and Linden simply don't have enough of a grasp of other players around the league to realize this (possible, but unheard of from "professionals"), or they refuse to acknowledge that trading a third for Pedan was a mistake.

or you and ms are wrong about how easy it will be for the canucks to recruit enough defensive talent better than pedan in the pending free agent market to fill out their depth chart.
 

Marcel

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Yes we have all factored in Benning being a terrible GM that has created next to no depth whatsoever through three seasons at the helm.

lol, whose you all?

First off, nobody should like his game. Because it's bad. He's a bad player, and if you think this player who couldn't even stay in an AHL lineup consistently in 16-17 represents any sort of quality NHL depth in 17-18, you're frankly delusional. Sorry if that's blunt, but this player simply isn't depth.

Settle down sparky, share an opinion but understand that its just your opinion and because you voiced it doesn't mean its worth the time you took to write it.
 

FroshaugFan2

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or you and ms are wrong about how easy it will be for the canucks to recruit enough defensive talent better than pedan in the pending free agent market to fill out their depth chart.

Utica's best defenceman this season didn't have an NHL contract.

How difficult do you think it is to sign decent AHL players to NHL deals?
 

MS

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or you and ms are wrong about how easy it will be for the canucks to recruit enough defensive talent better than pedan in the pending free agent market to fill out their depth chart.

This should be the easiest thing in the world.

Pedan was a healthy scratch on a non-playoff AHL team. There are literally dozens of players available for free every summer (from the AHL or Europe) who are easily better than this. If you can't sign 2 of them, you're frankly incompetent.

And again, we should already have one of them in place. I've been saying this for 6 months, but the fact that Robak isn't on an NHL contract is insane. The guy was the best defender (and maybe best player) in Utica and should have been the first callup option last year. But instead of signing him, we kept calling up inferior players that Willie (rightly) had zero confidence in. It was nuts. And Robak would surely jump at the contract that Pedan was just given, given that he was likely playing for a fraction of that on an AHL deal last year.

If we give this deal to Pedan and then don't sign Robak, it's frankly laughable.
 

MS

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Settle down sparky, share an opinion but understand that its just your opinion and because you voiced it doesn't mean its worth the time you took to write it.

That a guy who couldn't stay in a bad AHL roster in his 4th year pro last season doesn't represent quality NHL depth isn't an opinion, it's a flat-out fact. And if you disagree with that fact, you simply don't understand hockey, player development, or the relative level of the AHL and NHL. Sorry.

Utica's best defenceman this season didn't have an NHL contract.

How difficult do you think it is to sign decent AHL players to NHL deals?

Yeah, exactly.

The fact that Benning is continually unable to do it and had to have his ass covered by Utica management pretty much sums up how incompetent he is.
 

krutovsdonut

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This should be the easiest thing in the world.

Pedan was a healthy scratch on a non-playoff AHL team. There are literally dozens of players available for free every summer (from the AHL or Europe) who are easily better than this. If you can't sign 2 of them, you're frankly incompetent.

And again, we should already have one of them in place. I've been saying this for 6 months, but the fact that Robak isn't on an NHL contract is insane. The guy was the best defender (and maybe best player) in Utica and should have been the first callup option last year. But instead of signing him, we kept calling up inferior players that Willie (rightly) had zero confidence in. It was nuts. And Robak would surely jump at the contract that Pedan was just given, given that he was likely playing for a fraction of that on an AHL deal last year.

If we give this deal to Pedan and then don't sign Robak, it's frankly laughable.

i agree with much of what you say, but i don't think it's that easy to pick up nhl depth dmen. teams like calgary and edmonton have shown this for years. calgary ended up playing bartkowski in the playoffs this year after running through how many other players? we are not in a better position to recruit than calgary was last year.

superficially this re-signing is so bad it makes no sense at all to anyone. we agree that far. unlike you, i am looking for a possible explanation. the two i can come up with are that green actually likes pedan, or else the canucks have evaluated their free agent defenceman opportunities this year as poor enough that pedan makes sense given how many signings they need.
 

krutovsdonut

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i don't think this management group has earned our efforts in understanding

this is the basis of a lot of negative inferences here that are used to justify the view that this management group has not earned our efforts in understanding.
 

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this is the basis of a lot of negative inferences here that are used to justify the view that this management group has not earned our efforts in understanding.

Managements performance in cap management, signings, trades, lack of signings/trades, and PR are used to justify the view that they have not earned our efforts in understanding
 

MS

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i agree with much of what you say, but i don't think it's that easy to pick up nhl depth dmen. teams like calgary and edmonton have shown this for years. calgary ended up playing bartkowski in the playoffs this year after running through how many other players? we are not in a better position to recruit than calgary was last year.

This is not an argument in your favour.

Bartkowski isn't a good NHL defender, but he was an NHL regular in 15-16 and had to take an AHL PTO at the start of this season. That's how soft the market is for decent veteran AHL defenders to fill out your AHL roster.

NHL depth in the 5-7 spots is something else entirely, and Pedan doesn't even belong in that discussion. He's an AHL depth defender and has ZERO utility to the NHL squad.

krutovsdonut said:
superficially this re-signing is so bad it makes no sense at all to anyone. we agree that far.

OK. I'm glad at least you admit that.

krutovsdonut said:
unlike you, i am looking for a possible explanation. the two i can come up with are that green actually likes pedan, or else the canucks have evaluated their free agent defenceman opportunities this year as poor enough that pedan makes sense given how many signings they need.

I'm also looking for possible explanations.

Here's a couple tweets from a pretty reliable source that another poster posted in the Utica thread:

https://twitter.com/DhaliwalSports/status/859904377057820672

https://twitter.com/DhaliwalSports/status/859904469143769088

This would seem to indicate that the reason for this signing is :

a) Benning still thinks Tryamkin is real good.

b) Benning is panicking about size after losing Tryamkin.

.... and we can slot this viewpoint in with things we already know about Benning :

c) Benning is out of touch with the modern NHL, especially as it concerns size and grit.

d) Benning is a woefully poor pro scout.

e) Benning has (even by his own admission) done a lousy job with the AHL squad and is terrible at building a quality roster on the farm.

And voila! There's your recipe for an incomprehensible signing.
 

krutovsdonut

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OK. I'm glad at least you admit that.

admit what? it's what i have been saying all along. look at my very first post yesterday.

i expected this player gone. i am surprised by the signing. i am surprised by the guaranteed minor salary.

after the way his ahl season ended, which suggested green didn't like or trust him, it makes no sense at all to me.

the bottom line is we both see the same thing and choose to process it differently.

you see it as confirmation of a belief that management is so bad they even with better free agent options they would re-sign a washed out prospect who the coach they just hired gave up on as an ahl player.

i see it as a riddle in search of answer. i see your theory as requiring we assume a level of incompetence i just have not seen with this management group. even if we assume they are the out of touch old schoolers you paint them as, they would be loyal to green and not sign a guy greeny clearly didn't want or like. it makes no sense.

we'll see. it's a pretty good litmus test. if pedan is just horrible and green won't play him and we don't need him, i think you can hold this up as a good case study of why you think current management are idiots.
 
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