Andrey "The Moscow Monster" Pedan

[ProstheticConscience]

Since 2010, there have been 73 defencemen debuts in the NHL by 24/25 year olds another 42 that debuted at 26+.

But, of those 115 defencemen and those like Pedan that debuted but were sent down... you want to say that none of them was a healthy scratch from their 4th+ AHL season onwards? None? Ever? I'll take the bet. Then, I'll prove you're wrong.

Okay. We're waiting. How many dmen were being healthy scratched in the AHL at 24 went on to become good (or at least passable) NHL players? Go ahead.

Really, I liked Pedan when we first got him, and as we're still pretty much devoid of muscle on the back end, I'd still like him to succeed. But is there literally any player who's ever made the jump from where Pedan is to NHL respectability?

 

[Pip]

He sucks. Needs a massive turnaround to even be considered a prospect at this point.

 

[Bad Goalie]

He sucks. Needs a massive turnaround to even be considered a prospect at this point.

LOL! Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

I was hopeful for this kid in his 2014-15 stint prior to the season ending concussion. It was all down hill from there. I spent last season and most of the one previous begging Canucks management to bring him up and keep him. He was killing the Comets with his irrational play. he was trying to be a puck moving D-man extrodinaire and failing miserably. The result was a turnover factory at all 3 levels of the rink. Blind passes into the slot, takeaways at his own blueline for breakaways, turnovers in the neutral zone when he again lost the puck with his fancy stickhandling that he couldn't pull off, pinching and missing , taking the puck deep and losing it and then drawing a penalty from behind trying to catch up, taking the bait and drawing stupid penalties, arguing with officials on calls he thought he should have gotten and then retaliating by doing something stupid to end up in the box himself. This is just some of his craziness. The guy became a disaster on one shift and then payed very well on the next, but the two distinctly different players in his bipolar hockey mind were always present game in game out.

It all began after the trip to Vancouver when he was turned into a forward. The guy they sent back wasn't the guy they called up. That promising bottom 6 NHL d-man with an ability to deliver the clean big hit was gone forever. I don't know what he was told or by whom, but it obviously didn't have anything but a huge detrimental effect.

 

[M2Beezy]

Utica for lifer is this is guy. Might as well move this ENTIRE thread to the Comets thread

 

[m9]

LOL! Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

I was hopeful for this kid in his 2014-15 stint prior to the season ending concussion. It was all down hill from there. I spent last season and most of the one previous begging Canucks management to bring him up and keep him. He was killing the Comets with his irrational play. he was trying to be a puck moving D-man extrodinaire and failing miserably. The result was a turnover factory at all 3 levels of the rink. Blind passes into the slot, takeaways at his own blueline for breakaways, turnovers in the neutral zone when he again lost the puck with his fancy stickhandling that he couldn't pull off, pinching and missing , taking the puck deep and losing it and then drawing a penalty from behind trying to catch up, taking the bait and drawing stupid penalties, arguing with officials on calls he thought he should have gotten and then retaliating by doing something stupid to end up in the box himself. This is just some of his craziness. The guy became a disaster on one shift and then payed very well on the next, but the two distinctly different players in his bipolar hockey mind were always present game in game out.

It all began after the trip to Vancouver when he was turned into a forward. The guy they sent back wasn't the guy they called up. That promising bottom 6 NHL d-man with an ability to deliver the clean big hit was gone forever. I don't know what he was told or by whom, but it obviously didn't have anything but a huge detrimental effect.

He wasn't "turned into a forward", he dressed at forward for one game on an emergency basis and played a handful of shifts. The thought that this two minutes of ice time caused the downward spiral in his career is one of the worst narratives brought up on this forum, yet has been re-hashed over and over.

I liked Pedan as a prospect, thought it was a worthwhile gamble due to his raw skills. For whatever reason he hasn't developed and is a non-prospect now.

 

[supercanuck]

LOL! Why don't you tell us how you really feel?

I was hopeful for this kid in his 2014-15 stint prior to the season ending concussion. It was all down hill from there. I spent last season and most of the one previous begging Canucks management to bring him up and keep him. He was killing the Comets with his irrational play. he was trying to be a puck moving D-man extrodinaire and failing miserably. The result was a turnover factory at all 3 levels of the rink. Blind passes into the slot, takeaways at his own blueline for breakaways, turnovers in the neutral zone when he again lost the puck with his fancy stickhandling that he couldn't pull off, pinching and missing , taking the puck deep and losing it and then drawing a penalty from behind trying to catch up, taking the bait and drawing stupid penalties, arguing with officials on calls he thought he should have gotten and then retaliating by doing something stupid to end up in the box himself. This is just some of his craziness. The guy became a disaster on one shift and then payed very well on the next, but the two distinctly different players in his bipolar hockey mind were always present game in game out.

It all began after the trip to Vancouver when he was turned into a forward. The guy they sent back wasn't the guy they called up. That promising bottom 6 NHL d-man with an ability to deliver the clean big hit was gone forever. I don't know what he was told or by whom, but it obviously didn't have anything but a huge detrimental effect.

Hi Bad Goalie. Did the concussion he have from the fight affect his play at all? Or did he come back fine and then declined after?

 

[Pip]

Yeah I'm nothing buying that the one game at forward ruined an otherwise good prospect.

 

[DL44]

He wasn't "turned into a forward", he dressed at forward for one game on an emergency basis and played a handful of shifts. The thought that this two minutes of ice time caused the downward spiral in his career is one of the worst narratives brought up on this forum, yet has been re-hashed over and over.

I liked Pedan as a prospect, thought it was a worthwhile gamble due to his raw skills. For whatever reason he hasn't developed and is a non-prospect now.

Pretty much.
Has the tools - size, snarl, skating and shot...
Here's hoping that simple basic time and experience eventually get him to NHL.

If Deryk Engelland is in the NHL... I still have some faith Pedan can also make it one day.

 

[VanJack]

Pretty much.
Has the tools - size, snarl, skating and shot...
Here's hoping that simple basic time and experience eventually get him to NHL.

If Deryk Engelland is in the NHL... I still have some faith Pedan can also make it one day.

Pedan actually won both the hardest shot and the fastest skater competition at one of the Canucks mid-season skills competition.

But just goes to show that hockey is still a 'cerebral game' at the end of the day....you have to 'think the game' to play it effectively and d-men are especially challenged with the split-second decision-making.

Pedan reminds me of the d-man version of Emerson Etem....could skate like the wind and shoot the puck through the end wall.....looked flashy in warm-ups, but puck just seemed to die on his stick, and he had zero impact when they dropped the puck for the game.

On the positive side he's still young for a d-man, who take longer to develop....but last season in Utica was a major step backward.

 

[tyhee]

He wasn't "turned into a forward", he dressed at forward for one game on an emergency basis and played a handful of shifts. The thought that this two minutes of ice time caused the downward spiral in his career is one of the worst narratives brought up on this forum, yet has been re-hashed over and over.

I liked Pedan as a prospect, thought it was a worthwhile gamble due to his raw skills. For whatever reason he hasn't developed and is a non-prospect now.

I don't think the comment that he dressed at forward only once for two minutes of ice time is close to being accurate so am going to ask you to provide some sort of source.

Certainly Canucks Army doesn't agree with you. In fact, their comments at times support the narrative that BG has had for some time that the Canucks were actually considering Pedan as a forward.

From https://canucksarmy.com/2016/04/05/andrey-pedan-at-forward-seems-misguided/:

"Last night, Pedan played another game as a forward with the Canucks and it appears that Coach Wilbrod Desjardins feels that this is a good plan:

#Canucks WD on Pedan: ‘an opportunity to be a versatile guy who can play F & D. Not ruling him out as a d-man, but this is a chance to play’

— Jeff Paterson (@patersonjeff) April 3, 2016

So, with only three more games left, does this ‘opportunity’ continue?

Canucks colour commentator Dave Tomlinson was on TSN 1040 yesterday and said this is a great opportunity for Pedan to ply his trade as a swing player with the Canucks. He made the argument that the alternative is to not play, and thus having Pedan in this role, is a good way to utilize their players and ensure they are game action."

From https://canucksarmy.com/2017/08/28/canucks-army-2017-pre-season-prospect-ranking-18-andrey-pedan/

"Former Canucks coach Willie Desjardins played Pedan as a forward in his NHL debut, kicking off an asinine idea that Pedan should be some sort of “swing manâ€, capable of playing both forward and defence. As a result, for roughly half of the 13 NHL games Pedan suited up for that year, he did so out of his natural position, with minimal fourth line minutes. The decision to play Pedan up front was, as my colleague Ryan Biech put it (rather conservatively), misguided at best. Desjardins squandered the opportunity to evaluate one of the team’s best defensive prospects if favour of foolishly experimenting with “swing†players."


And from https://canucksarmy.com/2016/08/23/canucks-army-prospect-profiles-8-andrey-pedan/:

"It’s regrettable that Pedan’s 13-game stint with the big club tells us virtually nothing about what he can do as an NHLer. Not only was Pedan playing on garbage time, largely as an experiment, but he was also perplexingly deployed as a forward for much of his time in Vancouver."

So what we had were reports of Pedan improving his defensive work after a good deal of work-including video work-with Green, followed by him getting a chance with the Canucks in which he was deployed much of the time as a forward with the Canucks' coach of the time speculating about him as a forward, during a time in which he won the fastest skater and hardest shot contests on the Canucks. He then was reassigned to Utica and has been inconsistent ever since, to the point where many don't view him as much of a prospect at all any more and the rest view him as pretty much a bust.

I haven't gone through game by game records to determine Pedan's actual ice time and time as a forward, but unless you can produce something to show he was used for "2 minutes" in "one game on an emergency basis" that statement doesn't appear accurate. It appears that not only did the Canucks consider using Pedan as a swing man, they chose to try him in that role before they got some healthy bodies back and reassigned him back to Utica. For whatever reason, his game immediately took a downward turn and hasn't recovered.

It isn't a stretch to think it had something to do with his mind getting diverted from what Green had been teaching him before his callup.

 

[Fatass]

I don't think the comment that he dressed at forward only once for two minutes of ice time is close to being accurate so am going to ask you to provide some sort of source.

Certainly Canucks Army doesn't agree with you. In fact, their comments at times support the narrative that BG has had for some time that the Canucks were actually considering Pedan as a forward.

From https://canucksarmy.com/2016/04/05/andrey-pedan-at-forward-seems-misguided/:

"Last night, Pedan played another game as a forward with the Canucks and it appears that Coach Wilbrod Desjardins feels that this is a good plan:

#Canucks WD on Pedan: ‘an opportunity to be a versatile guy who can play F & D. Not ruling him out as a d-man, but this is a chance to play’

— Jeff Paterson (@patersonjeff) April 3, 2016

So, with only three more games left, does this ‘opportunity’ continue?

Canucks colour commentator Dave Tomlinson was on TSN 1040 yesterday and said this is a great opportunity for Pedan to ply his trade as a swing player with the Canucks. He made the argument that the alternative is to not play, and thus having Pedan in this role, is a good way to utilize their players and ensure they are game action."

From https://canucksarmy.com/2017/08/28/canucks-army-2017-pre-season-prospect-ranking-18-andrey-pedan/

"Former Canucks coach Willie Desjardins played Pedan as a forward in his NHL debut, kicking off an asinine idea that Pedan should be some sort of “swing manâ€, capable of playing both forward and defence. As a result, for roughly half of the 13 NHL games Pedan suited up for that year, he did so out of his natural position, with minimal fourth line minutes. The decision to play Pedan up front was, as my colleague Ryan Biech put it (rather conservatively), misguided at best. Desjardins squandered the opportunity to evaluate one of the team’s best defensive prospects if favour of foolishly experimenting with “swing†players."


And from https://canucksarmy.com/2016/08/23/canucks-army-prospect-profiles-8-andrey-pedan/:

"It’s regrettable that Pedan’s 13-game stint with the big club tells us virtually nothing about what he can do as an NHLer. Not only was Pedan playing on garbage time, largely as an experiment, but he was also perplexingly deployed as a forward for much of his time in Vancouver."

So what we had were reports of Pedan improving his defensive work after a good deal of work-including video work-with Green, followed by him getting a chance with the Canucks in which he was deployed much of the time as a forward with the Canucks' coach of the time speculating about him as a forward, during a time in which he won the fastest skater and hardest shot contests on the Canucks. He then was reassigned to Utica and has been inconsistent ever since, to the point where many don't view him as much of a prospect at all any more and the rest view him as pretty much a bust.

I haven't gone through game by game records to determine Pedan's actual ice time and time as a forward, but unless you can produce something to show he was used for "2 minutes" in "one game on an emergency basis" that statement doesn't appear accurate. It appears that not only did the Canucks consider using Pedan as a swing man, they chose to try him in that role before they got some healthy bodies back and reassigned him back to Utica. For whatever reason, his game immediately took a downward turn and hasn't recovered.

It isn't a stretch to think it had something to do with his mind getting diverted from what Green had been teaching him before his callup.

Pedan is big, tough, and very fast. He won the Canuck's fastest skater one season. He might see himself as a Dman, but he could more likely have an NHL career as a fourth line banger than a d.

 

[m9]

I don't think the comment that he dressed at forward only once for two minutes of ice time is close to being accurate so am going to ask you to provide some sort of source.

Certainly Canucks Army doesn't agree with you. In fact, their comments at times support the narrative that BG has had for some time that the Canucks were actually considering Pedan as a forward.

From https://canucksarmy.com/2016/04/05/andrey-pedan-at-forward-seems-misguided/:

"Last night, Pedan played another game as a forward with the Canucks and it appears that Coach Wilbrod Desjardins feels that this is a good plan:

#Canucks WD on Pedan: ‘an opportunity to be a versatile guy who can play F & D. Not ruling him out as a d-man, but this is a chance to play’

— Jeff Paterson (@patersonjeff) April 3, 2016

So, with only three more games left, does this ‘opportunity’ continue?

Canucks colour commentator Dave Tomlinson was on TSN 1040 yesterday and said this is a great opportunity for Pedan to ply his trade as a swing player with the Canucks. He made the argument that the alternative is to not play, and thus having Pedan in this role, is a good way to utilize their players and ensure they are game action."

From https://canucksarmy.com/2017/08/28/canucks-army-2017-pre-season-prospect-ranking-18-andrey-pedan/

"Former Canucks coach Willie Desjardins played Pedan as a forward in his NHL debut, kicking off an asinine idea that Pedan should be some sort of “swing manâ€, capable of playing both forward and defence. As a result, for roughly half of the 13 NHL games Pedan suited up for that year, he did so out of his natural position, with minimal fourth line minutes. The decision to play Pedan up front was, as my colleague Ryan Biech put it (rather conservatively), misguided at best. Desjardins squandered the opportunity to evaluate one of the team’s best defensive prospects if favour of foolishly experimenting with “swing†players."


And from https://canucksarmy.com/2016/08/23/canucks-army-prospect-profiles-8-andrey-pedan/:

"It’s regrettable that Pedan’s 13-game stint with the big club tells us virtually nothing about what he can do as an NHLer. Not only was Pedan playing on garbage time, largely as an experiment, but he was also perplexingly deployed as a forward for much of his time in Vancouver."

So what we had were reports of Pedan improving his defensive work after a good deal of work-including video work-with Green, followed by him getting a chance with the Canucks in which he was deployed much of the time as a forward with the Canucks' coach of the time speculating about him as a forward, during a time in which he won the fastest skater and hardest shot contests on the Canucks. He then was reassigned to Utica and has been inconsistent ever since, to the point where many don't view him as much of a prospect at all any more and the rest view him as pretty much a bust.

I haven't gone through game by game records to determine Pedan's actual ice time and time as a forward, but unless you can produce something to show he was used for "2 minutes" in "one game on an emergency basis" that statement doesn't appear accurate. It appears that not only did the Canucks consider using Pedan as a swing man, they chose to try him in that role before they got some healthy bodies back and reassigned him back to Utica. For whatever reason, his game immediately took a downward turn and hasn't recovered.

It isn't a stretch to think it had something to do with his mind getting diverted from what Green had been teaching him before his callup.

"It all began after the trip to Vancouver when he was turned into a forward."

He got called up and played one game at forward for 3 minutes, then was sent back down the next day. He played forward because they had two other forwards that they thought were going to play but didn't at the last minute due to injury - ie, an emergency basis. Not some plan to turn him into a forward.

He then got called back up a few weeks later and played defense for two games, and got sent back down.

The longer stretch you are referring it came up 3 or 4 months later at the end of the year. If you want to say that screwed with his development then fine, whatever. I don't buy it, but I'm more open to that. The comment I responded to - and one that has been brought up countless times on this board - is that the ORIGINAL trip up here to play forward for 3 minutes and 54 seconds somehow ruined his development.

 

[MS]

"It all began after the trip to Vancouver when he was turned into a forward."

He got called up and played one game at forward for 3 minutes, then was sent back down the next day. He played forward because they had two other forwards that they thought were going to play but didn't at the last minute due to injury - ie, an emergency basis. Not some plan to turn him into a forward.

He then got called back up a few weeks later and played defense for two games, and got sent back down.

The longer stretch you are referring it came up 3 or 4 months later at the end of the year. If you want to say that screwed with his development then fine, whatever. I don't buy it, but I'm more open to that. The comment I responded to - and one that has been brought up countless times on this board - is that the ORIGINAL trip up here to play forward for 3 minutes and 54 seconds somehow ruined his development.

He also played defense for most of his late-season callup.

He played forward for 3 games in April plus the one 3-minute game in December. 4 games total.

Playing 4 games at forward didn't ruin his development.

 

[Bad Goalie]

Hi Bad Goalie. Did the concussion he have from the fight affect his play at all? Or did he come back fine and then declined after?

He sat the remainder of that season including the entire playoffs, several months. He came back for the start of the 15-16 season in fine fettle. It is not the reason for his downhill fall.

 

[Bad Goalie]

He also played defense for most of his late-season callup.

He played forward for 3 games in April plus the one 3-minute game in December. 4 games total.

Playing 4 games at forward didn't ruin his development.

The "turning him into a forward" was sarcastic commentary on behalf of Wilie's thought process. Sorry, if I gave the wrong impression.

Where did I say playing forward "ruined his development"? I very plainly said that when he returned from that call-up, he never played with the promise he had shown that earned him that call-up again. That is a fact.

They were experimenting with him at forward and the Vancouver media backs me up. That's a fact you admit. He played 13 games with Vancouver in 15-16 and has never played a second as a Canuck since.

My question has always been what did they tell him he had to do to be valuable to the Canucks. He never acted like a Bobby Orr type of puck carrying, length of the ice, stick handling wizard, but that was what we got when he came back. Problem? He wasn't capable of doing any of it. The question was one every Comets fan was asking, "Who is this guy? What did they do with Pedan and when are they going to send him back?" He has consistently played on a slow downward spiral leading to less ice time and finally healthy scratches.

Green was high on this guy the first half of his time here and then he became more and more frustrated with him. He had game night bench sessions gesturing and pointing to various spots on the ice and coaching him up for all he was worth. If you know Green, that is not normal. He rarely gives bench coaching beyond a statement or two. His position coaches handle the mistake corrections. He only gets involved when he feels he has to make a very important correction now or ice time will shrink. Green never gives up on a kid until all else has failed and then it's only a single game scratch and then right back to it. When the Comets were on their last minute strides for the playoffs near the end of last season, Pedan became a liability that Green could no longer trust and the healthy scratches mounted up.

Maybe he loses the alter ego riding around on his back and just plays defense. Maybe Cull and company can reclaim him. Maybe Vancouver camp with Green in charge completely erases everything that screwed him up and starts him out with a clean slate. He needs to at least regain his solid AHL play. There are a lot of D-men slotted for Utica deployment and there are a lot more left-handed ones than right. He could be replaced if he doesn't get it back together and just play solid D, play his side of the ice and quit running all over the defensive zone and thus playing out of position, play physical but clean, make the first strong pass, and help the kid he gets to carry. If he has to be carried by his partner rather than vice versa as occurred by the end of last year, he is going to be an awfully expensive ($200K) scratch for the AHL.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

So yo drivier, still waiting on you to provide examples of dmen who went on to productive NHL careers (let's say 5+ seasons of regular top 6 time) after being regular healthy scratches in the AHL at 24. You still here?

 

[DL44]

Is Engelland an example?
I dont think he made it till he was in his 30's. He should be Pedan's inspiration.

 

[RobertKron]

Is Engelland an example?
I dont think he made it till he was in his 30's. He should be Pedan's inspiration.

Engelland hasn't played anywhere but the NHL since he was like 27, but yeah, Pedan had better start knocking dudes out.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Is Engelland an example?
I dont think he made it till he was in his 30's. He should be Pedan's inspiration.

Well, as of ten years ago he was playing full seasons in the AHL.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=45184

Okay, there's one.

Just waiting on that other guy there who I specifically asked...

 

[timw33]

Is Engelland an example?
I dont think he made it till he was in his 30's. He should be Pedan's inspiration.

You want Pedan to take until he's 28 (and has UFA status) to crack an NHL roster? You don't sit around being patient for those kinds of players, you sign them as UFAs. All the more reason to move on from Pedan if he's not developing the way you want him to.