Andrei Loktionov

[Boom Boom Apathy]

He's now played 7 games and I've been able to watch him for a few of them. My view on him in the limited sample size.

Pros:
Good puck skills, appears to have capability to be a good playmaker/good vision, plays with good hockey sense/makes smart plays, gives good effort on both ends, good 2 way player.

Cons:
Soft/weak along the boards, sometimes a bit tentative going into tough areas, doesn't seem overly fast to me (maybe it's just the way he plays looking to make a pass), his shot seems average (although in fairness, haven't seen enough of it but maybe because he doesn't shoot enough), and is weak on faceoffs.

Given what you have seen, what are your views on him and where do you think he can fit long term?

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[Wolfpuck]

Just glancing over his career faceoff numbers, he is NOT a viable option at center, unless he miraculously improves in that aspect of his game over the summer. That said, I still think he has better ability and instinct than some of the other players we have penciled into our bottom six. I'm comfortable with him being a third or perhaps second line winger and giving him power play time.

I'm hoping for him to stand out a bit more (in a positive way of course) in the remaining games this season. With the final 13 games essentially being a tryout for next year, I would like to see Muller give him a little more responsibility to see how comfortable he is in different situations.

Ultimately, if Lokti is happy here, and if JR wants to keep him, I would have no problem with a 2 year contract at a reasonable price. He does seem to fit the bill of a lot of the reclamation treasures (even though he's only 23) that Rutherford likes to scrounge up.

 

[What the Faulk]

He and Riley Nash are the same player. I don't see it being beneficial to have both on the team.

 

[Wolfpuck]

He and Riley Nash are the same player. I don't see it being beneficial to have both on the team.

I think Lokti can contribute more than Bowman or Dvorak, at least. Not trying to damn him with faint praise, mind you.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

God I can't wait until Bowman is off this team. I bet he doesn't catch on with any other team, though. Once we cut him loose he's probably done in the nhl.

 

[What the Faulk]

I think Lokti can contribute more than Bowman or Dvorak, at least. Not trying to damn him with faint praise, mind you.

Don't disagree with that, but then I think Boychuk and maybe Palushaj could too. I'm not sure why neither got much of a look this year. It's not as if either of the other two were setting the world on fire.

 

[Francis10]

Lokti is a perfect fit for the 3rd line, then getting some time on PP2. We seen what he could do last night playing with some actual skilled players.

 

[rocky7]

BBA covered it pretty well. I like him and his play so far has shown good potential. until more time passes, I'll reserve judgement and not rely on stats from a variety of situations to make any kind of assessment of his game. after watching him play these few games I disagree that he is overall similar to Riley Nash.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Lokti is a perfect fit for the 3rd line, then getting some time on PP2. We seen what he could do last night playing with some actual skilled players.

IMO, whether or not if he is a fit for the 3rd line depends on the other players on that line because right now, the Canes are so small and soft. It's not Loktionov himself that is an issue in terms of small/soft, just that it's more of the same.

 

[rocky7]

God I can't wait until Bowman is off this team. I bet he doesn't catch on with any other team, though. Once we cut him loose he's probably done in the nhl.

yep, agreed. him and Nash both IMO.

too, Dvorak just needs to hang them up. it's not that he doesn't give er hell or anything, it's that he just doesn't accomplish anything. I would even put Malhotra in the same category as these guys in terms of his play if it weren't for his FO skills, but even then, I'd cut him loose as well.

Gerbe has earned a place but all the others, including what I've seen of the guys in Charlotte, except Murphy, can go as far as I'm concerned.

 

[the halleJOKEL]

yep, agreed. him and Nash both IMO.

too, Dvorak just needs to hang them up. it's not that he doesn't give er hell or anything, it's that he just doesn't accomplish anything. I would even put Malhotra in the same category as these guys in terms of his play if it weren't for his FO skills, but even then, I'd cut him loose as well.

Gerbe has earned a place but all the others, including what I've seen of the guys in Charlotte, except Murphy, can go as far as I'm concerned.

#freezachboychuk

 

[rocky7]

#freezachboychuk

meh, I think he's more of the same. good AHLer that just doesn't translate to the big league.

 

[What the Faulk]

Nash: 97 games played, 12 goals, 16 assists, 28 points, 24 years old
Loktionov: 142 games played, 20 goals, 20 assists, 40 points, 23 years old

Loktionov is getting shiny new toy status.

 

[Ole Gil]

Riley Nash kills penalties, and plays a bit of defense. So at least when he's putting up subpar offensive numbers, at least he's still doing something.

Not sure what anyone hopes for from Loki. Looks like he's all finesse offense, and not enough to be viable.

I think the real story here, is we don't want either of these guys as the everyday 3C.

 

[Francis10]

Nash: 97 games played, 12 goals, 16 assists, 28 points, 24 years old
Loktionov: 142 games played, 20 goals, 20 assists, 40 points, 23 years old

Loktionov is getting shiny new toy status.

Disagree. Its plain to see he has overall more upside than Nash does. Better skater, vision, hands, etc. I'm fine with Nash being a 4th liner and killing penalties like Malholtra, but thats about it.

 

[What the Faulk]

Why does everyone keep pointing to Nash's PK ability like he's good at it, or like he does it a lot? He averages 47 seconds per game (7th on the team) and allows an average amount of shots against. He hasn't been on the ice for a goal against, but that's a product of a small sample size.

Loktionov killed penalties in NJ, allowing fewer shots than Nash while also giving up fewer goals on the ice than his team did while he was off.

Their usage is also fairly similar. Both have been protected a lot this year, scoring at a similar clip against easy competition.

I just think that if Nash was the new guy and Loktionov was on the team for awhile, the roles would be reversed. I don't think that either is useless, but neither are standouts and I really don't see them as being effective options at 3C.

EDIT: Also, for what it's worth, Malhotra has been pretty bad lately. He's still a faceoff machine, but he's routinely getting pinned in the defensive zone. Some of that is the product of bad linemates, and some has to do with his high defensive zone starts and relatively tough opponents, but he's still been on the ice for two last minute goals in the last month. 2-4 points off the table is huge. If they won both, they'd be 11th in the conference and two behind Columbus with one more to play against them in about 2 weeks. That's the difference between a shot at the playoffs, and needing a miracle.

 

[RodTheBawd]

Why does everyone keep pointing to Nash's PK ability like he's good at it, or like he does it a lot? He averages 47 seconds per game (7th on the team) and allows an average amount of shots against. He hasn't been on the ice for a goal against, but that's a product of a small sample size.

So I'm clear, sample size is considered when something hurts your argument, but ignored when it helps?

I don't disagree with your point, but there are too many Nate Silver wannabes that ignore basic principles of statistics (not directed at you in particular)

 

[My Special Purpose]

He's fit in seamlessly with our hodge-podge of third- and fourth-line fillers who do absolutely nothing well, but a little bit of everything just well enough to stay in the league.

I'm utterly sick of us getting pushed around. Another 12-minute-a-night skilled midget will do nothing to fix that. We lost a shutout in a truly outstanding goaltending effort last night because we couldn't win a single board battle.

 

[Anton Babchuk]

i thought we lost the shutout because big scary tough guy jay harrison decided he was going to vacate the front of the net to attempt to block a point shot, miss the shot and then leave his man free to tip it (aka the tim gleason special)

 

[What the Faulk]

So I'm clear, sample size is considered when something hurts your argument, but ignored when it helps?

I don't disagree with your point, but there are too many Nate Silver wannabes that ignore basic principles of statistics (not directed at you in particular)

I'm not saying Loktionov is a good PKer. He's proven about as much as Nash has in that regard though, and that was my point.

Kev hit the nail on the head in his first paragraph. There's little discernable difference between a bunch of the bottom six. One or two specialists on a roster is fine. But all of them?

I looked up scoring after the Edmonton game. Only Gerbe ranked in the top 270 among forwards with over 400 mins played. A few others were close, but Gerbe did play in the top six for most of the year. That's just bad production from half the order, no matter how many Staals are having a bad year.

 

[Ole Gil]

Their usage is also fairly similar. Both have been protected a lot this year, scoring at a similar clip against easy competition.

If you look at the gamelog, it's evident that Nash isn't being protected, as much as a frequent line combination got 100% ozone starts against weak competition so Jeff Skinner could try to score goals.

He's been in just about all roles. But the summary of his stats basically reflects Jeff Skinner and the line role, not his defensive ability.

The information we have from following the team and watching the games should be used for context when applicable. This is one of those times.

 

[Ole Gil]

The other problem here, is that there is no benchmark for what constitutes 'good' all defensive shutdown stats. (as it relates to your anti-Malholtra stance)

A line that, by design, isn't worried about offense at all, and is solely out there to kill off the other teams top line's shifts.

I've never seen anything that even tries to quantify what a line with a goal of limiting GA/60 should look like advanced statistically.

All I see is them being compared to every other line all playing in different situations with the conclusion that 'they are terrible because they're always trapped in their zone.'

 

[What the Faulk]

Sorry, he and Jeff Skinner are being protected (in the ~10 games they've played together) and Nash still only has 18 points on the year. I'm not sure how that's a checkmark in his corner.

 

[Ole Gil]

Sorry, he and Jeff Skinner are being protected (in the ~10 games they've played together) and Nash still only has 18 points on the year. I'm not sure how that's a checkmark in his corner.

It's not a checkmark. It's just pointing out a misinterpretation of statistics.

Riley Nash sometimes gets lots of Ozone starts, to the tune of 100% when playing with Jeff Skinner (I assume). Sometimes he gets hardly any, when his line is taking a defensive role.

You can only draw the conclusion he's protected by being willfully ignorant of the game by game fluctuations of his zone starts.

 

[What the Faulk]

It's not my being willful ignorance or misinterpretation so much as your misunderstanding of how to use statistics.

Why would I look at a game log when I can look at his overall usage? Yeah, he's gotten spot defensive starts, just like one game where Murphy started the majority of his shifts in the defensive zone. Does that mean he's been primarily used in a defensive role, or that he hasn't been protected most of the season? No.

On the year, Nash has fewer defensive zone starts than any forward not named Eric, Lindholm, Skinner, or Ruutu. His quality of competition is easiest of any forward to play over 18 games. That is protection. 10 games with Skinner isn't changing his season numbers.

As far as Malhotra goes, I don't know how many times I need to state that shots beget scoring chances which beget goals. What constitutes good defense is limiting all of these. Malhotra is dead last in shots against, fourth worst in goals against/60, and I don't have updated numbers for scoring chances (they're hand tracked), but I'm sure he's near the bottom in those too. Like I said, some of it is a product of his usage and linemates, but he hasn't been that great either.