Player Discussion Andreas Athanasiou

[Bryanbryoil]

He showed signs of what Holland traded for in the Chicago series because Tipp finally started using him properly.

Put him on the third line with a guy like Kassian and he'll beat up opposing third lines. There's real value in that even at ~$3M.

For some reason Tipp had him on Sheahan's line in the regular season and expected him to bring offense to a line that started in the defensive zone 90% of the time.

Agreed, ultimately there is a useful player here whether it's on the 1st or 3rd line. We should not move on from this player unless he gets a crazy arbitration award. He was solid against Chicago, sometimes the puck just doesn't go in.

 

[Soundwave]

If you are putting AA on the PP it would have to be in Nuges spot, not the Neal/Chiasson spot. AAs skillset doesnt fit in that spot. That spot needs to be a guy who can keep his spot in front of the net and bang home the dirty goals etc.

Which wouldn't be bad. AA, Neal, McDavid, Draisaitl, Klefbom on PP1

Nuge, Yamamoto, Puljujarvi, Kassian, Bear/Bouchard

I think that can improve our PP as we don't NEED to then have the first unit out there all the time.

In all honesty I think Chiasson/Neal's role on the PP is overrated. A net front presence is key when you have a big point shot, but the Oilers don't score the majority of their PP goals from the point as Klefbom's shot has turned into a useless turd after 16-17.

You need some one in that spot that will keep the D/goalie honest, who can bury a gimme, but in all honestly many forwards could do that. You could put Kassian or AA or Yamamoto or Archibald in that spot and they'd score some goals.

AA has a pretty wicked one timer, people say he's all speed but his shot release is really good, he doesn't shoot enough.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Play him with McDavid for the year and he'll eventually hit a hot streak and score 20+ goals. He should've had 2 goals in that Chicago series, hit a post on an open net and was robbed another time, 99/100 times those types of shots go in.

People on this board always caution about signing/trading for players that have career years with sky high shooting percentage, but how about the opposite? Athansiou shot 7.1% last season on the Oilers, way below his previous 4 seasons of 17%, 15%, 9.4%, and 13.9% ... that probably indicates he is due to bounce back.

Likely Chiasson is not back next year due to cap reasons, I think he should get some looks on the PP (split with Neal), he has a wicked shot release as well.

So your grand plan is play him with McDavid and he'll get hot?

First off AA doesn't need McDavid to get hot, his game is all about rushing the puck up the ice, his success is largely determined by how clean and crisp the first 1-2 passes are out of the defensive zone, so he can catch the puck right on the tape in mid-flight when he's cheating out the defensive zone early. I've never seen a team that deployed or allowed 2 players to cheat out the zone early for offense, so AA being on that line should mean McDavid hangs back covering for him and we essentially neutralize McDavid's rush offense (aside from the moments he skates through the entire opposition team, but that's the exception not the norm).

While quick strike offensive rushes are awesome tool to have, the bedrock of winning teams is sustained offensive zone pressure that's the stuff that leads to crooked goal differentials, we should not be content relegating a McDavid line to quick one and done offensive rushes, we need to establish sustained offensive zone pressure in the event the rush offense fails and I've seen little evidence that AA can help in this capacity.

AA needs to improve multiple facets of his game to be a legitimate top 6 player on anything resembling a good team, at this point he's in the Grabner family of players. Grabner had 5- 20 goals or more seasons (pro-rated the lockout season where he had 16 goals) and he rarely saw more than a cup of coffee in the top 6 and it's cause he didn't contribute to helping the line much after the rush was done and his game wasn't very dependent on his forward linemates for his offense. It's really nice when you can get an additional 20 or more goals out of your 3rd line, that a nice offensive pop and certainly has value, but there is no sense in miscasting the player.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

In all honesty I think Chiasson/Neal's role on the PP is overrated. A net front presence is key when you have a big point shot, but the Oilers don't score the majority of their PP goals from the point as Klefbom's shot has turned into a useless turd after 16-17.

You need some one in that spot that will keep the D/goalie honest, who can bury a gimme, but in all honestly many forwards could do that. You could put Kassian or AA or Yamamoto or Archibald in that spot and they'd score some goals.

AA has a pretty wicked one timer, people say he's all speed but his shot release is really good, he doesn't shoot enough.

You don't need a big point shot to beat a goalie on the PP when you have a screen in place, it just has to get past the first blocker and be on net and it's instantly a dangerous puck capable of going in. Secondly a huge amount of goals are scored off rebounds alone, it's not just about being a screen it's about being in place to collect the garbage around the net. Chiasson is big enough to hold off defenders and he has better hands in tight quarters than the majority of our players, it also doesn't matter if we have players with better hands in general, Chiasson makes plays through contact better than most of our guys.

Chiasson career wise hasn't been a great PP performer, but his last 2 seasons are still above AA's career best PP points per 60 numbers.

 

[Soundwave]

So your grand plan is play him with McDavid and he'll get hot?

First off AA doesn't need McDavid to get hot, his game is all about rushing the puck up the ice, his success is largely determined by how clean and crisp the first 1-2 passes are out of the defensive zone, so he can catch the puck right on the tape in mid-flight when he's cheating out the defensive zone early. I've never seen a team that deployed or allowed 2 players to cheat out the zone early for offense, so AA being on that line should mean McDavid hangs back covering for him and we essentially neutralize McDavid's rush offense (aside from the moments he skates through the entire opposition team, but that's the exception not the norm).

While quick strike offensive rushes are awesome tool to have, the bedrock of winning teams is sustained offensive zone pressure that's the stuff that leads to crooked goal differentials, we should not be content relegating a McDavid line to quick one and done offensive rushes, we need to establish sustained offensive zone pressure in the event the rush offense fails and I've seen little evidence that AA can help in this capacity.

AA needs to improve multiple facets of his game to be a legitimate top 6 player on anything resembling a good team, at this point he's in the Grabner family of players. Grabner had 5- 20 goals or more seasons (pro-rated the lockout season where he had 16 goals) and he rarely saw more than a cup of coffee in the top 6 and it's cause he didn't contribute to helping the line much after the rush was done and his game wasn't very dependent on his forward linemates for his offense. It's really nice when you can get an additional 20 or more goals out of your 3rd line, that a nice offensive pop and certainly has value, but there is no sense in miscasting the player.

If he's here, yes, that I think would be the smart.

Stop with the "chicken with its head cut off" line shuffling of going into a panic the moment McDavid's line doesn't score for 2 periods. Enough with Archibald or someone like that ending up on the line.

You will never develop chemistry with players if you continually change the lines like that.

RNH and Draisaitl were terrible together until they got extended time together.

If you let Connor play long enough with someone he will eventually get them some goals, and that player will then learn his tendencies and then that line will start to do OK. Well everyone except Lucic who was hopeless.

Kassian was done here, on pace for like a 4 goal season and probably about to be traded for peanuts, then he gets stapled with McDavid for a good stretch and he's been scoring at a 20 goal rate since.

The Oilers were quite frankly stupid as well to never let Strome play with McDavid. Thanks Todd.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

If he's here, yes, that I think would be the smart.

Stop with the "chicken with its head cut off" line shuffling of going into a panic the moment McDavid's line doesn't score for 2 periods. Enough with Archibald or someone like that ending up on the line.

You will never develop chemistry with players if you continually change the lines like that.

RNH and Draisaitl were terrible together until they got extended time together.

If you let Connor play long enough with someone he will eventually get them some goals, and that player will then learn his tendencies and then that line will start to do OK. Well everyone except Lucic who was hopeless.

Kassian was done here, on pace for like a 4 goal season and probably about to be traded for peanuts, then he gets stapled with McDavid for a good stretch and he's been scoring at a 20 goal rate since.

The Oilers were quite frankly stupid as well to never let Strome play with McDavid. Thanks Todd.

I'm not sure if RNH and Draisaitl have chemistry, it seems like RNH has chemistry with Yamo and Drai has chemistry with Yamo, that line only worked with Yamo on it, from where I'm sitting he's the glue that binds them.

I'm surprised you haven't noticed, but McDavid always performs well with powerforwards based on his numbers with and without them it's clear he needs one on his line at all times, even the McDavid-Lucic duo that "didn't work" had a 57% GF% as a duo over 3 years.

I also have zero problems with how Strome was handled he was challenged to round out his game under Todd and from what I saw he was doing exactly that, he became a better defensive player, problem was management wanted the same offensive output despite the changed usage and role, which is rarely how those sorts of things work out especially initially where your priorities and focus change. The problem wasn't how he was used or deployed, the issue was the lack of patience from Chia, Strome was a player going through a metamorphosis you needed to wait and see how he married his offense with his improved defensive game, after the defensive improvements he learned & focused on become more second nature. From the rumors I heard our entire scouting staff told Chia that trading Strome for Spooner was a terrible idea, but he basically told them to F off said he knew Spooner and knew what was right. I'm not terribly impatient and generally don't jump to quick conclusions, but it only took me 1 game of watching Spooner play for us to realize we made a colossal mistake, just an incredibly flawed player who's best days were clearly behind him, with atrocious reads and reactions.

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The crux of your argument is you are chasing boxcars for AA, you equate goals to team success (rather than goal differential), and you think McDavid is magic and he'll impart his magic onto others and then they too will be magical. When the reality is McDavid magic seems to start when you get on his line and stop when you get off his line, his linemates that get "hot" with him rarely "stay hot" without him.

I prioritize improving puck possession as a means to improve the goal differential of our top line (which was not good this season). I care little for how many goals a player scored, it ultimately boils down to--> Did you create more than you gave up? That question separates the good players from the bad players/niche players. I also believe a good McDavid line seeks to put the puck in his hands more often not less often.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

If he's here, yes, that I think would be the smart.

Stop with the "chicken with its head cut off" line shuffling of going into a panic the moment McDavid's line doesn't score for 2 periods. Enough with Archibald or someone like that ending up on the line.

You will never develop chemistry with players if you continually change the lines like that.

RNH and Draisaitl were terrible together until they got extended time together.

If you let Connor play long enough with someone he will eventually get them some goals, and that player will then learn his tendencies and then that line will start to do OK. Well everyone except Lucic who was hopeless.

Kassian was done here, on pace for like a 4 goal season and probably about to be traded for peanuts, then he gets stapled with McDavid for a good stretch and he's been scoring at a 20 goal rate since.

The Oilers were quite frankly stupid as well to never let Strome play with McDavid. Thanks Todd.

Kassian hasn't even played well with McDavid, he's only had success when he was with both McDavid and Draisaitl on the same line.

Contrary to popular belief McDavid can't just excel when he's teamed with trash, he needs someone competent to play with and AA ain't it.

I think the McDavid demanding out stuff is nonsense but at some point if you keep giving him nothing but trash to work with he's going to get fed up.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm not sure if RNH and Draisaitl have chemistry, it seems like RNH has chemistry with Yamo and Drai has chemistry with Yamo, that line only worked with Yamo on it, from where I'm sitting he's the glue that binds them.

I'm surprised you haven't noticed, but McDavid always performs well with powerforwards based on his numbers with and without them it's clear he needs one on his line at all times, even the McDavid-Lucic duo that "didn't work" had a 57% GF% as a duo over 3 years.

I also have zero problems with how Strome was handled he was challenged to round out his game under Todd and from what I saw he was doing exactly that, he became a better defensive player, problem was management wanted the same offensive output despite the changed usage and role, which is rarely how those sorts of things work out especially initially where your priorities and focus change. The problem wasn't how he was used or deployed, the issue was the lack of patience from Chia, not with the coaching staff, he was a player going through a metamorphosis you needed to wait and see how he married his offense with his improved defensive game, after the defensive improvements he learned & focused on become more second nature. From the rumors I heard our entire scouting staff told Chia that trading Strome for Spooner was a terrible idea, but he basically told them to F off said he knew Spooner and knew what was right. I'm not terribly impatient and generally don't jump to quick conclusions, but it only took me 1 game of watching Spooner play for us to realize we made a colossal mistake, just an incredibly flawed player who's best days were clearly behind him, with atrocious reads and reactions.

----------------------------------------
The crux of your argument is you are chasing boxcars for AA, you equate goals to team success (rather than goal differential), and you think McDavid is magic and he'll impart his magic onto others and then they too will be magical. When the reality is McDavid magic seems to start when you get on his line and stop when you get off his line, his linemates that get "hot" with him rarely "stay hot" without him.

I prioritize improving puck possession as a means to improve the goal differential of our top line (which was not good this season). I care little for how many goals a player scored, it ultimately boils down to--> Did you create more than you gave up? That question separates the good players from the bad players/niche players. I also believe a good McDavid line seeks to put the puck in his hands more often not less often.

Our top line is RNH Draisaitl Yamamoto and they dominate 5 on 5. I think we need to just accept that for now. Maybe Dave Tippett needs to accept that too.

Connor is going to have to make "due" with what have quite possibly, there is no magic "Winger Supermarket" where you can just pick up some possession driver wingers just because you want some.

Good teams learn how to get the most out of players like Athansiou, like the Islanders are with Eberle to help their team win.

It's great to want things but with limit cap space and assets sometimes you have to maximize what you have instead of daydreaming about what could be. Athansiou is a skilled, fast winger that this fan base was crying for just 9-10 months ago.

Yeah I'm sure the Rangers are laughing all the way to the bank with the Strome deal. Enough with excusing this team horrifically mismanaging assets and gifting away players. If this team ever wants to be good that needs to stop. Especially in a flat cap world, you can't just throw away players like a 3 year old that's decided they're tired with a toy.

Kassian should be the "power forward" on McDavid's line anyway, otherwise what the hell is he signed for 3.2 million dollars for? To go hide in the corner? The other winger should be a different type of player.

 

[CycloneSweep]

In all honesty I think Chiasson/Neal's role on the PP is overrated. A net front presence is key when you have a big point shot, but the Oilers don't score the majority of their PP goals from the point as Klefbom's shot has turned into a useless turd after 16-17.

You need some one in that spot that will keep the D/goalie honest, who can bury a gimme, but in all honestly many forwards could do that. You could put Kassian or AA or Yamamoto or Archibald in that spot and they'd score some goals.

AA has a pretty wicked one timer, people say he's all speed but his shot release is really good, he doesn't shoot enough.

You don't need a big point shot to beat a goalie on the PP when you have a screen in place, it just has to get past the first blocker and be on net and it's instantly a dangerous puck capable of going in. Secondly a huge amount of goals are scored off rebounds alone, it's not just about being a screen it's about being in place to collect the garbage around the net. Chiasson is big enough to hold off defenders and he has better hands in tight quarters than the majority of our players, it also doesn't matter if we have players with better hands in general, Chiasson makes plays through contact better than most of our guys.

Chiasson career wise hasn't been a great PP performer, but his last 2 seasons are still above AA's career best PP points per 60 numbers.

You do need someone in that spot to keep the d and goalie honest. That's not AA. He isn't the guy to fight for a spot in front of the net. The screen isn't just for point shots, it's to essentially keep one defender preoccupied and the goalie a bit distracted. AA is not a guy who is strong on his stick and cleans up garbage goals. I'm in no way saying he shouldn't be on the pp, but putting him in Chiassons spot isn't using AAs abilities properly. You want to put him in spots to succeed as you have said, replacing Chiasson on Neal on the PP, a spot that we were the best in a decade with a guy who has an entirely different skill set and is ANOTHER left shot.

I'm all for AA on the PP but just not in that spot. Shoots the wrong way AND the wrong skillset. And as I said before, I'm fine with him replacing Nuge on the PP as it moves Nuge to run his own PP which in theory makes us better.

 

[Mr Positive]

Our top line is RNH Draisaitl Yamamoto and they dominate 5 on 5. I think we need to just accept that for now. Maybe Dave Tippett needs to accept that too.

Connor is going to have to make "due" with what have quite possibly, there is no magic "Winger Supermarket" where you can just pick up some possession driver wingers just because you want some.

Good teams learn how to get the most out of players like Athansiou, like the Islanders are with Eberle to help their team win.

It's great to want things but with limit cap space and assets sometimes you have to maximize what you have instead of daydreaming about what could be. Athansiou is a skilled, fast winger that this fan base was crying for just 9-10 months ago.

Yeah I'm sure the Rangers are laughing all the way to the bank with the Strome deal. Enough with excusing this team horrifically mismanaging assets and gifting away players. If this team ever wants to be good that needs to stop. Especially in a flat cap world, you can't just throw away players like a 3 year old that's decided they're tired with a toy.

Kassian should be the "power forward" on McDavid's line anyway, otherwise what the hell is he signed for 3.2 million dollars for? To go hide in the corner? The other winger should be a different type of player.

I disagree. If you want to try stretches of other wingers with McDavid, sure, because keeping the RNH-Drai-Yama line together is ideal. However, you dont always do ideal. There is a reason why teams spread top talent around. The RNH-Drai-Yama line shouldn't stay together for the same reason that McDavid and Drai had to be separated. It's the same reason why the Leafs playing Matthews-Tavares-Marner on a line was a desperation move in the playoffs and they lost that elimination game vs Columbus.

You cannot leave McDavid with what he had at the end of the season. Period. And yes, give Drai all the best wingers and of course they will do well. That doesn't mean it is the best for the total offense.

So to me this isn't a Tippett issue. It's a Holland issue. He admitted that AA wasn't what he hoped to get, and that's what he was talking about. He wanted to keep that Draisaitl line together too. So it wasn't Tippett's fault that they were split up. It was Holland's, for not picking the right winger. And that's what Holland faces this offseason again and he knows it.

 

[Soundwave]

I disagree. If you want to try stretches of other wingers with McDavid, sure, because keeping the RNH-Drai-Yama line together is ideal. However, you dont always do ideal. There is a reason why teams spread top talent around. The RNH-Drai-Yama line shouldn't stay together for the same reason that McDavid and Drai had to be separated. It's the same reason why the Leafs playing Matthews-Tavares-Marner on a line was a desperation move in the playoffs and they lost that elimination game vs Columbus.

You cannot leave McDavid with what he had at the end of the season. Period. And yes, give Drai all the best wingers and of course they will do well. That doesn't mean it is the best for the total offense.

So to me this isn't a Tippett issue. It's a Holland issue. He admitted that AA wasn't what he hoped to get, and that's what he was talking about. He wanted to keep that Draisaitl line together too. So it wasn't Tippett's fault that they were split up. It was Holland's, for not picking the right winger. And that's what Holland faces this offseason again and he knows it.

Dave Tippett's played Athansiou with McDavid for like 5 periods. No offence to him but he has no clue if that combination could work long run because he bothered to have no patience.

A coach needs to understand a GM's options are freaking limited. There is a salary cap. Bringing in assets costs a lot.

You can't be that reckless as a coach, if Tipp wants to play this game, just like Todd McLellan played the "lets never try Strome with McDavid" game it can be the difference with him sitting at home in Phoenix soon enough watching Mike Babcock coach the Oilers instead.

Gotta be smarter as a coach than that.

Athansiou has scored at about a 20+ goal rate for 4 seasons, McDavid will make that eventually work if the coaching staff would have any patience. This is not some unskilled scrub.

 

[Burnt Biscuits]

Our top line is RNH Draisaitl Yamamoto and they dominate 5 on 5. I think we need to just accept that for now. Maybe Dave Tippett needs to accept that too.

I'm fine with that.

Connor is going to have to make "due" with what have quite possibly, there is no magic "Winger Supermarket" where you can just pick up some possession driver wingers just because you want some.

There are better ones than AA within our price range, it doesn't have to be a Taylor Hall level player, it just boils down to asking and answering some simple questions.

How likely is this player to get McDavid back the puck after he passes to them?
In AA's case pretty unlikely he's goal driven, he hard charges at the net and isn't usually looking to set up his teammates, his passing game is also underwhelming. He's also prone to forcing plays that don't need to be forced and turning the puck over. Nice to have one player who won't constantly defer to McDavid, but AA represents the other extreme (no need to defer I can do it all by myself).

How likely is this player to win a 50/50 puck battle?
With regards to AA I'd say he's slightly underwhelming in this regard, can win some foot races for sure, but doesn't fight and claw for pucks in board battles, if he doesn't get the puck off the initial foot race or knock them off the puck from the collision of a lost foot race it's pretty rare that he retrieves the puck.

How likely is this player to regain possession of a lost puck? (create a turnover)
I'd say he's quite poor in this regard has the closing speed to make a d-man move the puck quicker than they want, but doesn't play particularly good defense and doesn't clog the passing lanes effectively to intercept passes. Also does not possess a good active stick and really doesn't hit that much despite having the speed to be in position to do so.

AA is really only good in one capacity he's got a scorers touch and converts at a good rate with the opportunities he does get, but in every capacity other than that he's more of a hindrance than a help to McDavid.

Good teams learn how to get the most out of players like Athansiou, like the Islanders are with Eberle to help their team win.

Why is getting the most out of Athanasiou solely linked to getting the most points possible for you? Why focus on AA having personal success rather than line as a whole having success? and I know people think McDavid will be successful regardless of who he plays with, but their are levels of success, it matters if McDavid beats the opposition by a little or if he beats them by a lot, we've got 2 superstar centers we should try to have 2 lines that cave the opposition in at 5 on 5. Few players on our team can create quality offensive opportunities on their loneseome, AA is one such player, he can score with plugs probably better than RNH can cause his game isn't based on interacting or utilizing his teammates. He's good at being a lone wolf, if you can get a duo that can take care of the defensive side of things and then just let AA loose, all he needs to be successful is the puck to find his stick in mid-flight and open ice to skate into, he could put up prime Grabner like point totals from the 3rd line.

Kassian should be the "power forward" on McDavid's line anyway, otherwise what the hell is he signed for 3.2 million dollars for? To go hide in the corner? The other winger should be a different type of player.

Kassian can be that player, he's the best option we got at the moment, but he's clearly not quite up to that level for a whole season given his hot and cold routine, we should be on the lookout for a potential upgrade/replacement.

 

[Mr Positive]

Dave Tippett's played Athansiou with McDavid for like 5 periods. No offence to him but he has no clue if that combination could work long run because he bothered to have no patience.

A coach needs to understand a GM's options are freaking limited. There is a salary cap. Bringing in assets costs a lot.

You can't be that reckless as a coach, if Tipp wants to play this game, just like Todd McLellan played the "lets never try Strome with McDavid" game it can be the difference with him sitting at home in Phoenix soon enough watching Mike Babcock coach the Oilers instead.

Gotta be smarter as a coach than that.

Athansiou has scored at about a 20+ goal rate for 4 seasons, McDavid will make that eventually work if the coaching staff would have any patience. This is not some unskilled scrub.

That assumes that we see everything that goes on. For instance, what was going on in practice? That probably plays into decisions that seem strange to us.

That time that we had AA in the season was a bit chaotic. Tippett tried AA for a bit, and it didn't work, and Ennis caught fire, and then he cooled down, so maybe we were going to go back to AA. Covid cut the season short. Maybe the plan was to let AA establish himself in the last part of the season but the plan was scuttled by the shortened season.

And ultimately, with the playoffs starting, I heard many pundits say that we should just force AA with McDavid to have the Drai line stay together, but that's just lofty thinking. Ultimately, AA-McDavid was not established at all and RNH-McDavid was. We were facing a team that spread out their talent by having Kane and Toews on different lines, so us overloading one line just didn't make any sense.

It definitely wasn't a stupid idea. Tippett has been coaching too long for that. To me it really was comparable to that Matthews-Tavares-Marner line I brought up. They looked awesome. They controlled possession. It was the wrong move for the team though.

 

[CanmoreMike]

Agreed, ultimately there is a useful player here whether it's on the 1st or 3rd line. We should not move on from this player unless he gets a crazy arbitration award. He was solid against Chicago, sometimes the puck just doesn't go in.

When the Red Wings got back to the conference finals in 2007 and then cup finals on 2008 and 2009 Scottie Bowman said a large part of that was the emergence of Dan Cleary. A guy who can play anywhere in your top-9 is worth his weight in gold. It brings flexibility to the lineup.

Not trying to rehash the end of Jordan Eberle here but I remember in the Ducks series Rishaug ripping him on Morning Man-date saying that if you can’t play him in your top-6 you can’t play him. He’s not bottom-6 material but if doesn’t fit elsewhere you are in tough.

If AA can play anywhere and play well he’ll be worth the patience.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm fine with that.

There are better ones than AA within our price range, it doesn't have to be a Taylor Hall level player, it just boils down to asking and answering some simple questions.

How likely is this player to get McDavid back the puck after he passes to them?
In AA's case pretty unlikely he's goal driven, he hard charges at the net and isn't usually looking to set up his teammates, his passing game is also underwhelming. He's also prone to forcing plays that don't need to be forced and turning the puck over. Nice to have one player who won't constantly defer to McDavid, but AA represents the other extreme (no need to defer I can do it all by myself).

How likely is this player to win a 50/50 puck battle?
With regards to AA I'd say he's slightly underwhelming in this regard, can win some foot races for sure, but doesn't fight and claw for pucks in board battles, if he doesn't get the puck off the initial foot race or knock them off the puck from the collision of a lost foot race it's pretty rare that he retrieves the puck.

How likely is this player to regain possession of a lost puck? (create a turnover)
I'd say he's quite poor in this regard has the closing speed to make a d-man move the puck quicker than they want, but doesn't play particularly good defense and doesn't clog the passing lanes effectively to intercept passes. Also does not possess a good active stick and really doesn't hit that much despite having the speed to be in position to do so.

AA is really only good in one capacity he's got a scorers touch and converts at a good rate with the opportunities he does get, but in every capacity other than that he's more of a hindrance than a help to McDavid.


Why is getting the most out of Athanasiou solely linked to getting the most points possible for you? Why focus on AA having personal success rather than line as a whole having success? and I know people think McDavid will be successful regardless of who he plays with, but their are levels of success, it matters if McDavid beats the opposition by a little or if he beats them by a lot, we've got 2 superstar centers we should try to have 2 lines that cave the opposition in at 5 on 5. Few players on our team can create quality offensive opportunities on their loneseome, AA is one such player, he can score with plugs probably better than RNH can cause his game isn't based on interacting or utilizing his teammates. He's good at being a lone wolf, if you can get a duo that can take care of the defensive side of things and then just let AA loose, all he needs to be successful is the puck to find his stick in mid-flight and open ice to skate into, he could put up prime Grabner like point totals from the 3rd line.

Kassian can be that player, he's the best option we got at the moment, but he's clearly not quite up to that level for a whole season given his hot and cold routine, we should be on the lookout for a potential upgrade/replacement.

"We should look for an upgrade" is not that easy. What great options are available for $3 million dollars in space the Oilers will probably have?

It's easy to say that stuff but it's not easy to pull good wingers out of nowhere, if it was why'd the Oilers miss the playoffs twice due to that deficiency.

AA is not the perfect player but by the same token that doesn't you give up on a player because of a very small sample size.

Again Strome had 1 goal and 1 assist in his final 18 games here and the Oilers got suckered into giving the Rangers a 55-60 point player for garbage.

Eberle had one down year with a low shooting percentage. Just like AA's is now. He's had 4 straight years of really good shooting percentage and has one off year this season, that is more than likely to revert back to the norm.

The Oilers are going to have to settle for "less than perfect" options and make it work, if they ever want to be a good team the answer can't always be "well we tried it for 5 periods, didn't work, get us someone else".

You will never be a Cup contending team with that attitude. How many players actually come here and overachieve versus the other way around? This franchise really has a horrible track record on that and it needs to change.

 

[Mr Positive]

"We should look for an upgrade" is not that easy. What great options are available for $3 million dollars in space the Oilers will probably have?

It's easy to say that stuff but it's not easy to pull good wingers out of nowhere, if it was why'd the Oilers miss the playoffs twice due to that deficiency.

AA is not the perfect player but by the same token that doesn't you give up on a player because of a very small sample size.

Again Strome had 1 goal and 1 assist in his final 18 games here and the Oilers got suckered into giving the Rangers a 55-60 point player for garbage.

Eberle had one down year with a low shooting percentage. Just like AA's is now. He's had 4 straight years of really good shooting percentage and has one off year this season, that is more than likely to revert back to the norm.

The Oilers are going to have to settle for "less than perfect" options and make it work, if they ever want to be a good team the answer can't always be "well we tried it for 5 periods, didn't work, get us someone else".

You will never be a Cup contending team with that attitude. How many players actually come here and overachieve versus the other way around? This franchise really has a horrible track record on that and it needs to change.

that would be good reason to start a season with AA because at least then he can build chemistry with McDavid. I didn't want him forced with McDavid in the playoffs because it's not the time to experiment, and I'm willing to give Tippett the benefit of the doubt during the season because it was cut short by covid so maybe he was going to try AA for the final stretch. I definitely don't want us to give a bunch of money to a Hoffman or Toffoli.

 

[McShogun99]

Unless we make some cap dumps the only options next season for Mcdavid's wing will all be done internally. I think Kassian should only be on Mcdavids line for short stints. It should be between AA, Neal, JP and Benson. I know Benson hasn't proved much at the NHL level but he is an intelligent player, good playmaker and good along the boards. He could end up complimenting Mcdavid quite nicely and end up having a similar effect to Mcdavid like Yamamoto did for Draisaitl.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

When the Red Wings got back to the conference finals in 2007 and then cup finals on 2008 and 2009 Scottie Bowman said a large part of that was the emergence of Dan Cleary. A guy who can play anywhere in your top-9 is worth his weight in gold. It brings flexibility to the lineup.

Not trying to rehash the end of Jordan Eberle here but I remember in the Ducks series Rishaug ripping him on Morning Man-date saying that if you can’t play him in your top-6 you can’t play him. He’s not bottom-6 material but if doesn’t fit elsewhere you are in tough.

If AA can play anywhere and play well he’ll be worth the patience.

Ultimately you need more that a few good players to win, whether he's our Cleary or better, he is a good player IMO. AA isn't a world beater, but he is a much more skilled forward than everyone else on our team not named Connor, Leon, Ryan and maybe Kailer. Let's also not forget that one of his best attributes is his skating and our breakout was shit against Chicago so we hardly got to see that element from him.

 

[Soundwave]

Keep in mind too McDavid played at a PPG rate as a rookie with Nail Yakupov (who hilariously actually fanned on 1/2 goals McDavid set him up for) and Beniot Pouliot.

If he can make that a functional line, I think he can figure out how to play with Athansiou and Kassian if that is the line that's there for him. The coaching staff needs to stop freaking out if McDavid's line doesn't immediately score.

You're not allowing players to figure anything out together and there's no reason to have such a short sighted panicked view on line combos. The RNH-Drai-Yamamoto line can drive the team for a little while, let Connor figure things out with someone else.

If we can try Milan Lucic with McDavid 502928478393 times, we can try McDavid + AA for longer than 5 periods of hockey.

 

[AddyTheWrath]

Keep in mind too McDavid played at a PPG rate as a rookie with Nail Yakupov (who hilariously actually fanned on 1/2 goals McDavid set him up for) and Beniot Pouliot.

If he can make that a functional line, I think he can figure out how to play with Athansiou and Kassian if that is the line that's there for him. The coaching staff needs to stop freaking out if McDavid's line doesn't immediately score.

You're not allowing players to figure anything out together and there's no reason to have such a short sighted panicked view on line combos. The RNH-Drai-Yamamoto line can drive the team for a little while, let Connor figure things out with someone else.

If we can try Milan Lucic with McDavid 502928478393 times, we can try McDavid + AA for longer than 5 periods of hockey.

I'm fine with bringing AA back if Holland doesn't find anyone else for the top 6. But if he can do AA+ for Domi or something along those lines, I'd absolutely prefer that instead.

 

[Soundwave]

I'm fine with bringing AA back if Holland doesn't find anyone else for the top 6. But if he can do AA+ for Domi or something along those lines, I'd absolutely prefer that instead.

Yes things like that are nice to wish for, but why exactly does Montreal really do that.

In all honesty the only player that I can recall that was tried with McDavid for good length of time that saw no increase in their production was Lucic, because he was in a funk so far up his butt even McDavid couldn't help him.

Virtually every other player, even Yakupov saw an uptick in point production with McDavid, ranging from Pouliot to Archibald.

Can we at least give AA as much time with McDavid as Ty AHL Rattie got?

 

[replacement]

As Holland said when he got AA, "no risk no gain".

Cutting AA loose can only be justified by using the cap space to go big game hunting. Keeping AA at $3m is the safe bet.

 

[Stud Muffin]

As Holland said when he got AA, "no risk no gain".

Cutting AA loose can only be justified by using the cap space to go big game hunting. Keeping AA at $3m is the safe bet.

Can’t Just let AA walk though you gotta either recuperate some picks or trade him for a 3c.

 

[Aerchon]

"We should look for an upgrade" is not that easy. What great options are available for $3 million dollars in space the Oilers will probably have?

It's easy to say that stuff but it's not easy to pull good wingers out of nowhere, if it was why'd the Oilers miss the playoffs twice due to that deficiency.

AA is not the perfect player but by the same token that doesn't you give up on a player because of a very small sample size.

Again Strome had 1 goal and 1 assist in his final 18 games here and the Oilers got suckered into giving the Rangers a 55-60 point player for garbage.

Eberle had one down year with a low shooting percentage. Just like AA's is now. He's had 4 straight years of really good shooting percentage and has one off year this season, that is more than likely to revert back to the norm.

The Oilers are going to have to settle for "less than perfect" options and make it work, if they ever want to be a good team the answer can't always be "well we tried it for 5 periods, didn't work, get us someone else".

You will never be a Cup contending team with that attitude. How many players actually come here and overachieve versus the other way around? This franchise really has a horrible track record on that and it needs to change.

While I agree with this sentiment I think AA just isn't as good as you are hoping.

It is extremely unlikely we could get an upgrade in him especially at his projected cap hit of 3 mill. But if he could be used in a package to get an upgrade we can afford you do it.

I think Trotz would have troubles getting AA to plays sound positive hockey. And if he did I expect him to be more a 40 point guy than a ppg guy even playing with McDrai.

If AA can clean up his game and be a positive 40+point player in our top 6 I would be very happy.

 

[Beerfish]

If you want to find the value of a player do not play him with McDavid, an inanimate carbon rod can score 20 goals playing with mcdavid.