Confirmed with Link: Andlauer reaches deal for Ottawa Senators ownership

[bert]

There are a lot of “full season” ticket owners who resell a portion of their games, online. I bought some from a STH who was located In Trois-Rivières, and very much doubted he attended many games…a probably made a profit selling all or most of his tickets online…. I’m sure it’s a lot of work selling the unpopular games, but it must make up for it selling the more popular ones, and if the Sens ever, someday, are in a stretch run for a playoff spot, those last 15 games or so, no matter the opponent would also sell well over face value.

There's absolutely no money to be made buying seasons and selling them in Ottawa. You'd be lucky to break even. Terrible investment in your time and money. Stop making things up. I'm a STH I give them to clients and go to some of the games. I'm well aware of the resale possibilities and they suck. Doing this because I don't want this team to move and I enjoy going here and there. Its honestly people like you that are a big problem with this fanbase. Always spreading a bullshit self serving false narrative. That creates negativity and skepticism.

Plus. Andlauer needs to pay for his new place at Dow's Lake

He just dropped 950 million to keep the team here and is pouring money into every aspect of the organization and you post a complete lie like this. Unreal.

 

[coladin]

There's absolutely no money to be made buying seasons and selling them in Ottawa. You'd be lucky to break even. Terrible investment in your time and money. Stop making things up. I'm a STH I give them to clients and go to some of the games. I'm well aware of the resale possibilities and they suck. Doing this because I don't want this team to move and I enjoy going here and there. Its honestly people like you that are a big problem with this fanbase. Always spreading a bullshit self serving false narrative. That creates negativity and skepticism.


He just dropped 950 million to keep the team here and is pouring money into every aspect of the organization and you post a complete lie like this. Unreal.

LOL

It isn't a lie.

 

[bert]

LOL

It isn't a lie.

What you suggested that he doesn't have money to spend on the team absolutely is.

 

[mysens]

Its quite the castle he bought here in Ottawa. All that money on this almost new home and he is still going to do a million dollar plus addition to it. He has money.

 

[coladin]

What you suggested that he doesn't have money to spend on the team absolutely is.

What i suggested was tonigue in cheek , officer. Lighten up bert

 

[Masked]

The Canadian economy is as bad as it's ever been. You won't find many 25-40 year olds buying tickets on a regular basis if they can't justify the cost. I mean the price of houses has doubled and the interest is at 6-7% on a mortgage. Car prices have increased 30% and the price of gas is 50% higher than it was a few years ago. Salaries are exactly the same as they were.

If prices go up and the team is not winning the attendance will take a huge dive. At least until there's an arena downtown. This is true for all Canadian teams too. Calgary and Winnipeg are some of the lowest attendance teams (% wise) in the league.

Canadian teams are already spending 30% more than US teams just because of the weak CAD and often they need to pay players more because of the provincial/federal taxes.

A lot of misinformation here.

First the Ottawa metro economy is not the same as the Canadian economy. We're sort of sheltered here due to the public service being a huge portion of our workforce.

Yes, the price of houses has increased significantly but anyone that was in the market pre-COVID is still in good shape. The price increase also created a lot of wealth for some people. Wealth that can be used for season tickets.

Very few people would be paying 6-7% on a mortgage. It would be people who just recently got mortgages and decided to go with variable instead of fixed rates or who have bad credit.

Salaries are not the same. Public servants have seen rather large raises with the new collective agreements that have gone through in the last year.

Canadian teams are not spending 30% more. They have expenses in US $, namely player salaries but that doesn't mean they're spending more. They're paying the market rate.

 

[Boud]

A lot of misinformation here.

First the Ottawa metro economy is not the same as the Canadian economy. We're sort of sheltered here due to the public service being a huge portion of our workforce.

Yes, the price of houses has increased significantly but anyone that was in the market pre-COVID is still in good shape. The price increase also created a lot of wealth for some people. Wealth that can be used for season tickets.

Very few people would be paying 6-7% on a mortgage. It would be people who just recently got mortgages and decided to go with variable instead of fixed rates or who have bad credit.

Salaries are not the same. Public servants have seen rather large raises with the new collective agreements that have gone through in the last year.

Canadian teams are not spending 30% more. They have expenses in US $, namely player salaries but that doesn't mean they're spending more. They're paying the market rate.

For the mortgages, fair enough, not everyone is affected and it did create some wealth for some people. You are downplaying how many people are at a point where they have to renew their mortgages from now up until the next year.

You understand what I'm saying for "spending more". Bottom line Canadian teams are at a disadvantage. Are they paying more in terms of monetary value? No. Are they getting impacted more than US teams? Yes. That's what the post that you quoted was talking about and that was fairly obvious. If you earn in CAD and go spend your money in Euro, you're going less far than you should. That's the point.

And listen I am a public servant and I'm probably in the best classification possible. The salaries are not following the inflation right now. It's almost impossible to get into the market. There's no doubt that the Canadian economy is not doing well and Ottawa is not any different. The vast majority of the 20-40 demographic have nowhere near the flexibility that they had 5 years ago. There are massive budget cuts right now across the board at the GoC and hiring freeze. You need a business case to fill positions even if your team is staffed at 50% capacity. People that work in Ottawa are not spending their money out the windows and young families have a hard time getting off renting, in some cases it's almost impossible. Does it have an impact on people spending hundreds at a hockey game? Obviously!

What are the first things that come out when you have less financial flexibility? Restaurants, entertainment, etc.

I'm in that age bracket where people have young families, buy houses, get married. People don't have any money the way things are going right now. Hockey arenas are not filled with 70 year olds with 10 houses. They are filled with young parents bringing their kids to games, young adults, groups of friends, and corporate bringing in clients. Ottawa doesn't have the corporate ticket base of Montreal or Toronto, they need the families and the young people going to games. Not only that, they also need the people who are not public servants going to games too.

None of this is misinformation. It's just reality.

 

[Masked]

For the mortgages, fair enough, not everyone is affected and it did create some wealth for some people. You are downplaying how many people are at a point where they have to renew their mortgages from now up until the next year.

You understand what I'm saying for "spending more". Bottom line Canadian teams are at a disadvantage. Are they paying more in terms of monetary value? No. Are they getting impacted more than US teams? Yes. That's what the post that you quoted was talking about and that was fairly obvious. If you earn in CAD and go spend your money in Euro, you're going less far than you should. That's the point.

And listen I am a public servant and I'm probably in the best classification possible. The salaries are not following the inflation right now. It's almost impossible to get into the market. There's no doubt that the Canadian economy is not doing well and Ottawa is not any different. The vast majority of the 20-40 demographic have nowhere near the flexibility that they had 5 years ago. There are massive budget cuts right now across the board at the GoC and hiring freeze. You need a business case to fill positions even if your team is staffed at 50% capacity. People that work in Ottawa are not spending their money out the windows and young families have a hard time getting off renting, in some cases it's almost impossible. Does it have an impact on people spending hundreds at a hockey game? Obviously!

What are the first things that come out when you have less financial flexibility? Restaurants, entertainment, etc.

I'm in that age bracket where people have young families, buy houses, get married. People don't have any money the way things are going right now. Hockey arenas are not filled with 70 year olds with 10 houses. They are filled with young parents bringing their kids to games, young adults, groups of friends, and corporate bringing in clients. Ottawa doesn't have the corporate ticket base of Montreal or Toronto, they need the families and the young people going to games. Not only that, they also need the people who are not public servants going to games too.

None of this is misinformation. It's just reality.

It is misinformation.

There are mortgage rates below 5% available right now. You don't have to have a mortgage of 6-7% like you claim.

If I buy something in the US for $74US or buy it in Canada for $100CDN, I'm not paying 30% more for it. That's just silly to claim. Maybe if there'd be huge fluctuations in the exchange rate you could make the claim but that's been rather stable in recent years.

As for salaries, you're moving the goalposts. First you claim that salaries aren't increasing. Now you're claiming that they aren't following inflation.

Young families have never filled the building. They might fill the upper levels but the lower levels have always skewed older because they're the ones with the money to buy the expensive seats. The young families that do go tend to be white collar professionals.

 

[Boud]

It is misinformation.

There are mortgage rates below 5% available right now. You don't have to have a mortgage of 6-7% like you claim.

If I buy something in the US for $74US or buy it in Canada for $100CDN, I'm not paying 30% more for it. That's just silly to claim. Maybe if there'd be huge fluctuations in the exchange rate you could make the claim but that's been rather stable in recent years.

As for salaries, you're moving the goalposts. First you claim that salaries aren't increasing. Now you're claiming that they aren't following inflation.

Young families have never filled the building. They might fill the upper levels but the lower levels have always skewed older because they're the ones with the money to buy the expensive seats. The young families that do go tend to be white collar professionals.

I'm not moving any goalposts you're taking things quite literally. Obviously salaries are increasing, they always have. When have you not seen salaries increase? Why does this have to be explained? The perception of increase is based on inflation, not on the literal concept of increasing. The thing that matters is not the amount of money you have in your pocket, it's the purchasing power of that money.

Mortgages at 5% or 6-7%, they were at 1-2% a few years ago. Again, you are omitting the context of the conversation. The point is that generally speaking people don't have as much money to spend to go to hockey games, are you really going to debate that or do you just want to argue for no reason? I'm not interested in debating interest rates whether it's 5.1 or 6.2. That's completely irrelevant to the conversation we were having in this thread. You are actually making my point.

I live abroad and I earn in CAD. I spend in a weak currency right now so I can do whatever the hell I want because I have good money. If I was in Ottawa I wouldn't have that same flexibility. It's just obvious. The same concept applies to a team that earns the majority of their revenues in a weaker currency than the currency that they spend. The point here is that Canadian teams are at a disadvantage because if I give you 100 CAD in revenues but you have to turn around and spend 100USD you are at a disadvantage compared to a team who earns in USD, do we agree?

The way you're responding is like if I told you a Lamborghini is fast and you would tell me no it's not if you compare it to the speed of light. Not everything needs to be dumbed down to the level you are going. Understanding context goes a long way when having conversations.

 

[Masked]

I'm not moving any goalposts you're taking things quite literally.

... The way you're responding is like if I told you a Lamborghini is fast and you would tell me no it's not if you compare it to the speed of light. Not everything needs to be dumbed down to the level you are going. Understanding context goes a long way when having conversations.

I'm sorry that I'm interpreting your words to mean what they literally mean instead of what you would like them to mean in your mind. Unfortunately I'm not a mind reader. "Salaries are exactly the same as they were" is not the same as salaries are not keeping up with inflation.

Your example is a fallacy. The way I'm responding is if you told me that a Lamborghini can go a million miles an hour or some other incorrect number, I correct you with the actual top speed. You proceed to claim that you just meant it went fast and that it should be obvious what you meant.

 

[Wondercarrot]

I'm not moving any goalposts you're taking things quite literally. Obviously salaries are increasing, they always have. When have you not seen salaries increase? Why does this have to be explained? The perception of increase is based on inflation, not on the literal concept of increasing. The thing that matters is not the amount of money you have in your pocket, it's the purchasing power of that money.

Mortgages at 5% or 6-7%, they were at 1-2% a few years ago. Again, you are omitting the context of the conversation. The point is that generally speaking people don't have as much money to spend to go to hockey games, are you really going to debate that or do you just want to argue for no reason? I'm not interested in debating interest rates whether it's 5.1 or 6.2. That's completely irrelevant to the conversation we were having in this thread. You are actually making my point.

I live abroad and I earn in CAD. I spend in a weak currency right now so I can do whatever the hell I want because I have good money. If I was in Ottawa I wouldn't have that same flexibility. It's just obvious. The same concept applies to a team that earns the majority of their revenues in a weaker currency than the currency that they spend. The point here is that Canadian teams are at a disadvantage because if I give you 100 CAD in revenues but you have to turn around and spend 100USD you are at a disadvantage compared to a team who earns in USD, do we agree?

The way you're responding is like if I told you a Lamborghini is fast and you would tell me no it's not if you compare it to the speed of light. Not everything needs to be dumbed down to the level you are going. Understanding context goes a long way when having conversations.

I enjoyed this post

 

[JD1]

I'm not moving any goalposts you're taking things quite literally. Obviously salaries are increasing, they always have. When have you not seen salaries increase? Why does this have to be explained? The perception of increase is based on inflation, not on the literal concept of increasing. The thing that matters is not the amount of money you have in your pocket, it's the purchasing power of that money.

Mortgages at 5% or 6-7%, they were at 1-2% a few years ago. Again, you are omitting the context of the conversation. The point is that generally speaking people don't have as much money to spend to go to hockey games, are you really going to debate that or do you just want to argue for no reason? I'm not interested in debating interest rates whether it's 5.1 or 6.2. That's completely irrelevant to the conversation we were having in this thread. You are actually making my point.

I live abroad and I earn in CAD. I spend in a weak currency right now so I can do whatever the hell I want because I have good money. If I was in Ottawa I wouldn't have that same flexibility. It's just obvious. The same concept applies to a team that earns the majority of their revenues in a weaker currency than the currency that they spend. The point here is that Canadian teams are at a disadvantage because if I give you 100 CAD in revenues but you have to turn around and spend 100USD you are at a disadvantage compared to a team who earns in USD, do we agree?

The way you're responding is like if I told you a Lamborghini is fast and you would tell me no it's not if you compare it to the speed of light. Not everything needs to be dumbed down to the level you are going. Understanding context goes a long way when having conversations.

idk Boud, I don't agree with a lot of what you are saying.

Yes, the country is tight right now, but this city is very insulated from that with government and high tech being its primary industries.

I've come full circle in life. I was a young guy early in my career when we got the team. I was in on an STH package. Single and partying. I ended up in the private sector with corporate tickets and a box. Then probably 15 years of not being able to afford to go because I had a large family. Now I am back as an STH for the 4th season because my family is raised.

I can compare generations.

I had a post about a month back about young people at Sens games. Never seen so many young adults that are clearly there on their own dime. I think it is great.

But i think you are barking up the wrong tree. Young families have never really had money. Young couples have money. Then they buy a house and have kids and don't have money. Nothing has changed man. That's not new. Ya interest rates spiked. Salaries spiked pretty good too in the government. And classifications are quite a bit higher than they use to be.

There just never has been an ability for people with young kids to regularly attend world class sporting events. They're just priced out of it. Two games a year in the coke zone ? Sure I guess. But attending regularly. No.

oh, and to your question of when have salaries ever not increased. The 1990s. They were frozen for 6 years. kinda hard for someone to have been a young adult in that environment to look at today and think these guys have it hard

ARCHIVED - Identifying the Issues (archived) 1 / 2

This is the first report of the Advisory Committee on Labour-Management Relations in the Federal Public Service.

www.tbs-sct.canada.ca

 

[LudwigVonKarlsson]

There's absolutely no money to be made buying seasons and selling them in Ottawa. You'd be lucky to break even. Terrible investment in your time and money. Stop making things up. I'm a STH I give them to clients and go to some of the games. I'm well aware of the resale possibilities and they suck. Doing this because I don't want this team to move and I enjoy going here and there. Its honestly people like you that are a big problem with this fanbase. Always spreading a bullshit self serving false narrative. That creates negativity and skepticism.


He just dropped 950 million to keep the team here and is pouring money into every aspect of the organization and you post a complete lie like this. Unreal.

I'm not sure about that. I bought a 1/4 ticket package during the pre-season, went to a bunch of games, and sold the rest at a profit once the team started to fall off the face of the earth. Ended up going to a bunch of games this year at basically no cost outside of a Costco hotdog.

 

[Big Muddy]

Maybe some folks will find this interesting?

Mortgage rates were 13.25% in 1980. A lot of house buyers had to get 2nd mortgages and they were around 20%.

You can use this website to look at rates over the years.

Canada Mortgage Rates History (1975 to 2024)

From double-digit interest rates in the 1980’s to record-low rates in the 2020’s, take a look at Canada’s mortgage rate history, download historical mortgage rates, and compare home affordability in Canada over the years.

wowa.ca

 

[Bileur]

Maybe some folks will find this interesting?

Mortgage rates were 13.25% in 1980. A lot of house buyers had to get 2nd mortgages and they were around 20%.

You can use this website to look at rates over the years.

Canada Mortgage Rates History (1975 to 2024)

From double-digit interest rates in the 1980’s to record-low rates in the 2020’s, take a look at Canada’s mortgage rate history, download historical mortgage rates, and compare home affordability in Canada over the years.

wowa.ca

Rates were higher but the price of the house was far lower, particularly compared to the average salary.

 

[Cosmix]

idk Boud, I don't agree with a lot of what you are saying.

Yes, the country is tight right now, but this city is very insulated from that with government and high tech being its primary industries.

I've come full circle in life. I was a young guy early in my career when we got the team. I was in on an STH package. Single and partying. I ended up in the private sector with corporate tickets and a box. Then probably 15 years of not being able to afford to go because I had a large family. Now I am back as an STH for the 4th season because my family is raised.

I can compare generations.

I had a post about a month back about young people at Sens games. Never seen so many young adults that are clearly there on their own dime. I think it is great.

But i think you are barking up the wrong tree. Young families have never really had money. Young couples have money. Then they buy a house and have kids and don't have money. Nothing has changed man. That's not new. Ya interest rates spiked. Salaries spiked pretty good too in the government. And classifications are quite a bit higher than they use to be.

There just never has been an ability for people with young kids to regularly attend world class sporting events. They're just priced out of it. Two games a year in the coke zone ? Sure I guess. But attending regularly. No.

oh, and to your question of when have salaries ever not increased. The 1990s. They were frozen for 6 years. kinda hard for someone to have been a young adult in that environment to look at today and think these guys have it hard

ARCHIVED - Identifying the Issues (archived) 1 / 2

This is the first report of the Advisory Committee on Labour-Management Relations in the Federal Public Service.

www.tbs-sct.canada.ca

Things are not totally bad at this time. I remember having to pay a mortgage interest rate of 17% during the high inflation years when wage and price controls were implemented by the federal government. 17% is tough! 5% or 6% is small potatoes.

Canada Mortgage Rates History (1975 to 2024)

From double-digit interest rates in the 1980’s to record-low rates in the 2020’s, take a look at Canada’s mortgage rate history, download historical mortgage rates, and compare home affordability in Canada over the years.

wowa.ca

 

[Micklebot]

Rates were higher but the price of the house was far lower, particularly compared to the average salary.

This is true, average salary in Ottawa in 1980 was about 23k, while a house was 64k. Today, average salary is likely closer to 70k while a house is 650k.

Not only is a mortgage payment on a 25 yr term going to eat a bigger chunk of your pay, but the downpayment is becoming increasingly out of reach. Putting a 10% downpayment on a house that 10 x your annual salary vs 3 x is a big difference

 

[Micklebot]

Things are not totally bad at this time. I remember having to pay a mortgage interest rate of 17% during the high inflation years when wage and price controls were implemented by the federal government. 17% is tough! 5% or 6% is small potatoes.

We were spoiled with unreasonably low interest rates for almost a decade, 5% to 8% seems normal to me

 

[jhutter]

This is true, average salary in Ottawa in 1980 was about 23k, while a house was 64k. Today, average salary is likely closer to 70k while a house is 650k.

Not only is a mortgage payment on a 25 yr term going to eat a bigger chunk of your pay, but the downpayment is becoming increasingly out of reach. Putting a 10% downpayment on a house that 10 x your annual salary vs 3 x is a big difference

If that's the case, then salaries have actually gone down, as $23k in 1980 dollars is $87k in 2024 dollars.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Things are not totally bad at this time. I remember having to pay a mortgage interest rate of 17% during the high inflation years when wage and price controls were implemented by the federal government. 17% is tough! 5% or 6% is small potatoes.

It's crazy because this day and age, you probably wouldn't even consider any lending at 17% for anything. I know I wouldn't.

I had 2.6% on my first mortgage 8 years ago and refinanced at 1.64% 3 years ago. It's been nice to take advantage, but I knew it wasn't here to stay. Not looking forward to the next renewal, but I'm hoping they'll come back to the 4's or even 3's for a bit by then. Probably not.

It's a grind out there, especially for those of us born without any family money. That dictates so much of our lives in general.

 

[Micklebot]

Some napkin math,

Mortgage payment of 645/m in 1980 for a 63k home with 10% down, at 13% int rate would be 2.76% of an avg annual salary of 23k

Mortgage payment of 3250/m in 2024 for a 650k home with 10% down, at 4.5% int rate would be 4.64% of an avg annual salary of 70k

 

[Micklebot]

If that's the case, then salaries have actually gone down, as $23k in 1980 dollars is $87k in 2024 dollars.

Well, I'm relying on google, so grain of salt...

It's worth noting, more families were single income even only a far back s the early 80s, household income is probably higher on average but at an obvious cost

 

[Masked]

Rates were higher but the price of the house was far lower, particularly compared to the average salary.

Simple result of a huge increase in demand without a corresponding increase in supply. Ottawa's population has been increasing at a rate of over 1% per year. That's over 10,000 more people each year looking for housing.

Canada's policy to hugely increase the population has really screwed over the younger generation when it comes to housing.

 

[Micklebot]

Simple result of a huge increase in demand without a corresponding increase in supply. Ottawa's population has been increasing at a rate of over 1% per year. That's over 10,000 more people each year looking for housing.

Canada's policy to hugely increase the population has really screwed over the younger generation when it comes to housing.

Well that would explain everything up until 2020-21 when the the market saw back to back years of 20% increases. Pretty sure something significant happened around then...

 

[Beech]

Simple result of a huge increase in demand without a corresponding increase in supply. Ottawa's population has been increasing at a rate of over 1% per year. That's over 10,000 more people each year looking for housing.

Canada's policy to hugely increase the population has really screwed over the younger generation when it comes to housing.

no choice.. Pensions for baby boomers.. And life expectancy has increased.

when Canada's social system was being formulated in the early 1960's under Mike Pearson.. Average life expectancy was 72.. It is 83 today.

essentially most pension plans (Private or government) have to pay a further 11 years over what they assumed in 1964.

And since we live longer, we consume way more pharmaceuticals and use up way more health care.. we are not dropping dead as easily as we did in the 1960's..

It is either open the immigration vault and let young people in, or we will run out of money and 75 year old baby boomer grandma, will have no hospital, no medicine and no pension.

The housing crunch will be eased over the next 5 years.. it is a blip that people need to endure.. If families were as unified as they once did.. Then Mom and Dad (both sets) should drop the 10 to 20 K each to help the kids buy a home.. But baby boomer Mom and Dad have lived large and don't have two pennies to rub together. Plus Mom and Dad are divorced and step Mom or Step Dad ain't f***ing helping the step child that hates them!!!!