Post-Game Talk: (and part 2) #80: Maple Leafs at Flyers, Thursday, April 7, 2016

[Teezax]

Well we were in a way better position on Monday than we are today but all is not lost. At least we still control our destiny. Win 2 games in a row and we are in.

 

[GKJ]

The last few games have been so frustrating. Really wish something would happen with the officiating, they need to start taking a closer look at some of this **** and have consequences for crap refs.

Shot selection was terrible, almost all of our shots were at his chest.

And then if they miss the net entirely, then everyone complains that they can't hit the net.

It's actually hard to make a shot go where exactly you want it to go.

The book on Bernier anyways is to just get pucks at him, because he's been awful and has been giving up meatballs all year.

 

[Bob Clarke Fan Club]

Utterly disgusting finish on this team. Before someone says we weren't that good anyways....this was the ****ing leafs.

 

[hatcher]

Utterly disgusting finish on this team. Before someone says we weren't that good anyways....this was the ****ing leafs.

Yep that first 40 min was god awful. This same core group had the same problem with Berube also. Play Caps awesome and then die for 3 games straight.

 

[Rebels57]

Utterly disgusting finish on this team. Before someone says we weren't that good anyways....this was the ****ing leafs.

Agreed. We should expect the Flyers to beat the Toronto Marlies.

They couldnt even do that. Letting them off the hook is unacceptable.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Yep that first 40 min was god awful. This same core group had the same problem with Berube also. Play Caps awesome and then die for 3 games straight.

Why, it's almost like we have a roster with poor depth.

 

[Embiid]

The thing we could absolutely afford the least we're in the midst of....a losing streak and 3 games at that.... right at a critical juncture.

Dare I say..."choking situation"

signed

Terry Murray

 

[bennysflyers16]

Utterly disgusting finish on this team. Before someone says we weren't that good anyways....this was the ****ing leafs.

Sadly it wasn't Most that line up wont even be on the team next year.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The thing we could absolutely afford the least we're in the midst of....a losing streak and 3 games at that.... right at a critical juncture.

Dare I say..."choking situation"

signed

Terry Murray

Is it really choking, or is it the inevitable result of a team relying heavily on a small handful of players to mask glaring deficiencies for months? They succeeded for a bit, but it's not exactly a sustainable thing. There was going to be a collapse at some point when the vital players hit a cold streak and we still didn't have the depth to mask them.

The timing is deeply disappointing, sure, but it was gonna happen. Maybe for long-term quality of Fanlife it's better for us that we won't be getting swept by the Caps. We can remember 2008 for a bit longer and not have Rivalry Night promos end on a poopy note for us.

 

[Embiid]

Is it really choking, or is it the inevitable result of a team relying heavily on a small handful of players to mask glaring deficiencies for months? They succeeded for a bit, but it's not exactly a sustainable thing. There was going to be a collapse at some point when the vital players hit a cold streak and we still didn't have the depth to mask them.

The timing is deeply disappointing, sure, but it was gonna happen. Maybe for long-term quality of Fanlife it's better for us that we won't be getting swept by the Caps. We can remember 2008 for a bit longer and not have Rivalry Night promos end on a poopy note for us.

It's both IMO....yeah they seem to be gassed and the lack of depth has caught up to them right when every team needs to be at their peak performance. The thing is right now they are looking pretty bad losing so I would say they are choking...

 

[blinds]

Is it really choking, or is it the inevitable result of a team relying heavily on a small handful of players to mask glaring deficiencies for months? They succeeded for a bit, but it's not exactly a sustainable thing. There was going to be a collapse at some point when the vital players hit a cold streak and we still didn't have the depth to mask them.

The timing is deeply disappointing, sure, but it was gonna happen. Maybe for long-term quality of Fanlife it's better for us that we won't be getting swept by the Caps. We can remember 2008 for a bit longer and not have Rivalry Night promos end on a poopy note for us.

Well, considering it's those players dropping the ball, I'd say it's choking. It's Voracek and Giroux that aren't delivering, our two highest paid players. They've had a good stretch since January, but they're disappearing now.

http://broadstreetbuzz.com/2016/04/08/philadelphia-flyers-leafs-playoffs/

 

[Curufinwe]

Voracek isn't the second highest paid player, Streit is.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flyers/salary

It's a minor miracle they are still in the playoff hunt with MDZ missing the last two months.

 

[Beef Invictus]

I just think the concepts of choking and clutch are largely utter rubbish. Best players will be the best players, stats show this over time. Worst players will end up being the worst players.

Tired players won't magically become rested.

 

[blinds]

I just think the concepts of choking and clutch are largely utter rubbish. Best players will be the best players, stats show this over time. Worst players will end up being the worst players.

Tired players won't magically become rested.

Sorry but that's ******** IMO, the context of the game absolutely effects how players play. Look at Briere or Justin Williams. Some players thrive under pressure, others crumble. The majority are obviously somewhere in the middle, but you want to have guys that are able to step up their game when they need to. Giroux's been able to do that in the past, but not these past 3 games.

Voracek isn't the second highest paid player, Streit is.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flyers/salary

It's a minor miracle they are still in the playoff hunt with MDZ missing the last two months.

Don't be pedantic, He was just signed as an 8 million dollar player and that's what he should be judged against. It's good for this season that he's cheaper, but that shouldn't mean lower expectations.

 

[Beef Invictus]

Sorry but that's ******** IMO, the context of the game absolutely effects how players play. Look at Briere or Justin Williams. Some players thrive under pressure, others crumble. The majority are obviously somewhere in the middle, but you want to have guys that are able to step up their game when they need to. Giroux's been able to do that in the past, but not these past 3 games.

Last I checked Briere and Williams had almost identical points per game in the playoffs and out of them. Sometimes you may get an inexperienced player who doesn't realize what sort of intensity needs to be brought. Eventually they learn and their stats normalize as they get in line with everyone else.

The players in question have all shown they know how to compete in intense situations. I doubt they've forgotten how, or have just gotten lazy. That is just lazy analysis.

 

[blinds]

Last I checked Briere and Williams had almost identical points per game in the playoffs and out of them.

You should probably check again.

Edit: Just saw you edited your post. Again, for the sake of this discussion, I think you're completely wrong. Look at Voracek, he's a completely different player when it's an emotional game. If players don't know to bring their utmost intensity to big games in the NHL, they don't belong there. Pressure and expectations affect your decision making, it's as simple as that. Different games bring different pressures, contexts and expectations. Different players respond differently to that.

 

[Curufinwe]

Don't be pedantic, He was just signed as an 8 million dollar player and that's what he should be judged against. It's good for this season that he's cheaper, but that shouldn't mean lower expectations.

Even the highest paid players go thru scoring slumps, especially if they are playing thru injuries. Just ask Jonathan Toews.

 

[blinds]

Even the highest paid players go thru scoring slumps, especially if they are playing thru injuries. Just ask Jonathan Toews.

That's fine, slumps are expected, but when players don't perform in a do-or-die situation, it's natural to reconsider what their value to your team is. Those are the moments you need them to deliver. Clearly if we miss and Voracek is solely responsible for it (hypothetically), that doesn't mean he's a useless player. He's still our 2nd best forward. But it lowers your expectations of him in the future and makes his value depreciate.

Performance in important moments is more important than performance outside of them. I don't believe it's a fair assessment to just brush off the performance as natural variance. Hockey isn't random, players do as well as they play and Voracek isn't playing well. Besides, it's clearly more than bad bounces. Guy is making awful decisions, shots and passes.

 

[Random Forest]

The Voracek hysteria has reached out-of-control levels.

The guy had laughably unsustainable SH% numbers to start the year, finally recovered, then got injured and was forced to come back too early. And he's still pacing for 60 ****ing points. In a worst case scenario kind of year for him.

I know a lot of the dolts on here don't have attention spans or memories large enough to remember things further back than one week ago, but Voracek was an elite player last season and for much of this one.

The guy comes back from injury, doesn't perform at the same level, and we have people suggesting he wouldn't even get plucked if left unprotected in an expansion draft.

What happened to this forum?

 

[Random Forest]

Hockey isn't random

Oh, boy.

I really hope you meant to say hockey isn't 100% random or hockey isn't entirely random. Because yes, there exists quite a bit of randomness in hockey. I'd argue more than any other major sport.

 

[Larry44]

Is it really choking, or is it the inevitable result of a team relying heavily on a small handful of players to mask glaring deficiencies for months? They succeeded for a bit, but it's not exactly a sustainable thing. There was going to be a collapse at some point when the vital players hit a cold streak and we still didn't have the depth to mask them.

The timing is deeply disappointing, sure, but it was gonna happen. Maybe for long-term quality of Fanlife it's better for us that we won't be getting swept by the Caps. We can remember 2008 for a bit longer and not have Rivalry Night promos end on a poopy note for us.

This is really it. They have been playing as a team for a long time, but they are just out of gas - they are not choking. When you have to put MacDonald on the ice in OT, that's bad enough. When he takes a penalty and you have to put Manning out to kill it 4 on 3, you can't really expect that much, can you?

Giroux has been giving a heroic effort, and I'm really worried we're going to find out after the season that he's been defying the protocol and playing through a few concussions, including Subban's cheapshot, Niskanen's cheapshot, and Hanzal's cheapshot, none of which were adequately punished.

 

[klutch]

Voracek isn't the second highest paid player, Streit is.

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/flyers/salary

It's a minor miracle they are still in the playoff hunt with MDZ missing the last two months.

Yeah tbh, I remember thinking once MDZ went down that we had zero chance at all. Luckily Gudas and Ghost stepped up in that process. It's all catching up now, and these back-to-back games aren't helping.

 

[Beef Invictus]

The Voracek hysteria has reached out-of-control levels.

The guy had laughably unsustainable SH% numbers to start the year, finally recovered, then got injured and was forced to come back too early. And he's still pacing for 60 ****ing points. In a worst case scenario kind of year for him.

I know a lot of the dolts on here don't have attention spans or memories large enough to remember things further back than one week ago, but Voracek was an elite player last season and for much of this one.

The guy comes back from injury, doesn't perform at the same level, and we have people suggesting he wouldn't even get plucked if left unprotected in an expansion draft.

What happened to this forum?

This really puts things into perspective.

Everyone needs to take a deep breath.

 

[Curufinwe]

The guy comes back from injury, doesn't perform at the same level, and we have people suggesting he wouldn't even get plucked if left unprotected in an expansion draft.

What happened to this forum?

The fickleness has reached extreme levels. He got 137 out of 137 votes just a few weeks back.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2047811&highlight=expansion+draft

 

[Larry44]

Don't be pedantic, He was just signed as an 8 million dollar player and that's what he should be judged against. It's good for this season that he's cheaper, but that shouldn't mean lower expectations.

Well, Voracek doesn't have an NMC, so if he craps the bed next year, which I don't expect, at least we can expose him and McDonald in the waiver draft, which will help reach that 30% of your cap must be exposed thing.