Analyzing Dubas's performance II - (Full Analysis)

[rumman]

I’m a little concerned Dubas and Shanny seem to be doubling down on their philosophy, instead of demonstrating pragmatism. Now that’s the public face, so I take it with some scepticism, but clearly our mix and focus need tweaks. Stubbornness is the great undoing for upper management. Not trading Barrie at the deadline was indicative of that mindset...admit you erred, maximize the return for an asset. He didn’t. Worrying sign.

I'd love to know if the MLSE board have any concerns after the post season pressers. Prez and GM doubling down on a formula that hasn't worked and appears like a experiment gone wrong doesn't sound overly optimistic to me?

 

[m1ker]

I'd love to know if the MLSE board have any concerns after the post season pressers. Prez and GM doubling down on a formula that hasn't worked and appears like a experiment gone wrong doesn't sound overly optimistic to me?

I don't think they are doubling down. Reading between the lines of what Shanny said "you cant flick a switch and start playing playoff hockey, you need to do it consistently throughout the season", is an indicator that what they are doing isn't working and we need to change..

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I’m a little concerned Dubas and Shanny seem to be doubling down on their philosophy, instead of demonstrating pragmatism. Now that’s the public face, so I take it with some scepticism, but clearly our mix and focus need tweaks. Stubbornness is the great undoing for upper management. Not trading Barrie at the deadline was indicative of that mindset...admit you erred, maximize the return for an asset. He didn’t. Worrying sign.

Dubie needs to keep public perception of guys like Freddy, AJ and Kerfoot high right now as they are all trade chips ... makes no business sense to talk badly of them when we need to utilize them ... Kappy does not matter as his speed sells itself

 

[BertCorbeau]

The fact that they went out ahead of the deadline and acquired Clifford is a sign, to me, that they believe that in some capacity physicality and grit is necessary in a line up.

Dubas' philosophy and vision, I believe, is on the right track however it needs some refining and slight altering (as in add more physicality, grit, and players willing to pay the price for a goal. He needs to realize this as part of his growth as a GM. Failure to do so will see him out of a job sooner than later.

Now is the opportune time for a retool while they can still get good mileage out of JT and Muzzin as high end players.

 

[pylon17]

Analyzing with full analysis followed by a post-analysis ultimately culminating with an anal probe.

 

[rumman]

I don't think they are doubling down. Reading between the lines of what Shanny said "you cant flick a switch and start playing playoff hockey, you need to do it consistently throughout the season", is an indicator that what they are doing isn't working and we need to change..

mixed statements from Prez and GM....................

 

[m1ker]

mixed statements from Prez and GM....................

I think most people are confused. He's doubling down on the core 4 guys but said his philosophy continues to change and is involving..

 

[Gallagbi]

I think most people are confused. He's doubling down on the core 4 guys but said his philosophy continues to change and is involving..

Your quote reads like Shanahan is saying the core needs to compete harder. Basically the answer is within the room and they need to look at themselves in the mirror

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I'm more curious as to Shanny's role in all of this. Who created the vision? And if its not him, does he support it without question? Or, is he pushing for some changes?

Shanny hired the GMs & had to approve the coaches that were selected. He was involved in all of these key decisions and hence builds the foundation. It starts at the top.

The other thing is perhaps a few are underestimating the challenge we have with the cap. If we are going to add to our blueline, it will require some subtractions of significance with our forward group. The plus and minus might just balance out in the end and be a net zero overall impact.

 

[Mess]

The fact that they went out ahead of the deadline and acquired Clifford is a sign, to me, that they believe that in some capacity physicality and grit is necessary in a line up.

Dubas' philosophy and vision, I believe, is on the right track however it needs some refining and slight altering (as in add more physicality, grit, and players willing to pay the price for a goal. He needs to realize this as part of his growth as a GM. Failure to do so will see him out of a job sooner than later.

Now is the opportune time for a retool while they can still get good mileage out of JT and Muzzin as high end players.

Clifford is a pending UFA, so I assume that means you're expecting Dubas to resign him at a cost of 2nd round pick, instead of letting him walk at an expense of Leafs 3rd rounder in 2021.

What he does with Clifford will no doubt signal the direction he is taking the team and if more physicality is in the plans going forward.

 

[mrbagina]

The more I think about it, the more I think this team is in trouble.

Dubas has A LOT of work to do to re-shape this team and it wont be easy.

I am usually an optimist but I think these next 2 years will be troubling and Dubas will be fired.

I have been on the we are ok train for a while now but watching these playoffs has opened my eyes and I just don't see this team going anywhere but down I'm afraid.

I have not seen one other team not stick up for each other which is how it should be and what I never see from the leafs, like ever. Their style or lack of offends my hockey senses. For me this is the main problem for this team and it may be the personnel or it is the directive from the top, either way it stinks.

Hopefully Dubas was just protecting the players post play in but if he was on the up and up thinking we are right there and the defense is fine then he has lost the plot and I was one of the happy ones when he was hired. Now he is inching closer to the disdain and contempt I had for past Gm's like Nonis and company....man I hated that guy....on a hockey iq level, not personally.

Mod edit ..

 

[Gallagbi]

Clifford is a pending UFA, so I assume that means you're expecting Dubas to resign him at a cost of 2nd round pick, instead of letting him walk at an expense of Leafs 3rd rounder in 2021.

What he does with Clifford will no doubt signal the direction he is taking the team and if more physicality is in the plans going forward.

That's highly debatable. Clifford is A physical option, not the only physical option.

 

[Stephen]

Yes, but he endorsed the vision.

I hope he’s going Alec Baldwin in Glengarry Glen Ross on Dubas behind the scenes.

 

[Stephen]

Clifford is a pending UFA, so I assume that means you're expecting Dubas to resign him at a cost of 2nd round pick, instead of letting him walk at an expense of Leafs 3rd rounder in 2021.

What he does with Clifford will no doubt signal the direction he is taking the team and if more physicality is in the plans going forward.

If he keeps Clifford at that ridiculous up charge of the second rounder, it will smell like desperation. If he goes out and manages to acquire a couple of gritty playoff performers in the Clifford mould at an affordable price while replenishing the system with some picks and youth, I would let him off the hook and say he’s reloaded and made some strides towards balancing the roster.

 

[horner]

You have to think however if Dubas is actually watching the playoffs (which we know he is), that he has to understand that his highly skilled speed skating team is not really equipped for playoff style hockey.

It really doesn't matter what his HockeyPuck analytics spreadsheet says about clean zone entries with possession or other metrics that look good on paper but are not really applicable now.

These are hard hitting, tight checking, intense with high compete level games with little time and space, and very few end to end rush attacks, but rather grinding it out to win puck battles with lots of dump and chase. You have to be willing to do the heavy lifting and go and play in traffic and make physical sacrifices to succeed.

Dubas team composition is bringing a knife to a gun fight.

You need playoff grit.

Sam Bennet Calgary not a great regular Seasonh but theithe playoffs a different story , does what needs to be done.
Bo Horvat same

Islanders beating up on Washington

Columba's withe the help of there goaltender giving TBay all they can handle. True grit.

We will be up against these two teams + Boston,been need some grit.

 

[egd27]

What I'm concerned about is his comment of not understanding criticism of Marner, and then doubling down and saying it's “one of the most idiotic things that he sees done here.”. I

Couple that with:
Kyle Dubas says he finds it "mind boggling" that there's a "referendum" on Cody Ceci every time he makes a mistake. The #leafs GM defended Ceci by pointing to his relatively strong underlying numbers, particularly for someone with his heavy usage.

Seems like there may be a lack of objectivity.

 

[BertCorbeau]

If he keeps Clifford at that ridiculous up charge of the second rounder, it will smell like desperation. If he goes out and manages to acquire a couple of gritty playoff performers in the Clifford mould at an affordable price while replenishing the system with some picks and youth, I would let him off the hook and say he’s reloaded and made some strides towards balancing the roster.

For the cost, I'd take the 2nd rounder and a different player in UFA. Clifford was a nice add but let's not pretend he was some irreplaceable difference maker in that series.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Couple that with:
Kyle Dubas says he finds it "mind boggling" that there's a "referendum" on Cody Ceci every time he makes a mistake. The #leafs GM defended Ceci by pointing to his relatively strong underlying numbers, particularly for someone with his heavy usage.

Seems like there may be a lack of objectivity.

Possibly. Seems like he's keeping the door open on re-signing Ceci .. Which I imagine is his plan C if he can't sign a better d-man in UFA, or trade for one. If they need to fill that spot and do it cheaply, Ceci should come at a pretty good bargain IMO.

Again far from my preferred option but RHD are tough to come by.

 

[Gallagbi]

Possibly. Seems like he's keeping the door open on re-signing Ceci .. Which I imagine is his plan C if he can't sign a better d-man in UFA, or trade for one. If they need to fill that spot and do it cheaply, Ceci should come at a pretty good bargain IMO.

Again far from my preferred option but RHD are tough to come by.

He's be fine in the right spot, but that right spot is Holl and Liljgren's right now.

For his own good, Ceci shouldn't come back, just like Gardiner going in to UFA

 

[Stephen]

For the cost, I'd take the 2nd rounder and a different player in UFA. Clifford was a nice add but let's not pretend he was some irreplaceable difference maker in that series.

I would like to see us get a real psychopath like Corey Perry on a Spezza type deal, maybe a Western Conference prototypical forechecking beast with size, could be a versatile guy like a Tomas Nosek, and take a flyer on a guy like Sam Bennett who enjoys that rambunctious higher energy play. And distribute them throughout the lineup as required.

 

[egd27]

Possibly. Seems like he's keeping the door open on re-signing Ceci .. Which I imagine is his plan C if he can't sign a better d-man in UFA, or trade for one. If they need to fill that spot and do it cheaply, Ceci should come at a pretty good bargain IMO.

Again far from my preferred option but RHD are tough to come by.

If he can't sign a better d-man than Cody Ceci, he's probably in the wrong business.

 

[mrbagina]

Personally I was underwhelmed with what he brought and hope he does not get signed. I am not seeing his value like some posters. Maybe my expectations were too high. Wasn't just him though, I felt most of the team underwhelmed so...

 

[Gallagbi]

I would like to see us get a real psychopath like Corey Perry on a Spezza type deal, maybe a Western Conference prototypical forechecking beast with size, could be a versatile guy like a Tomas Nosek, and take a flyer on a guy like Sam Bennett who enjoys that rambunctious higher energy play. And distribute them throughout the lineup as required.

Simmonds and Perry would change our team pretty quick and likely wouldn't be huge costs to acquire. They both slot in to a weak area of the roster - depth RW

I do think Perry would have a lot of trouble with the DOPS here. A lot more media attention when he decides to spear someone or throw a questionable hit

 

[pylon17]

I have been on the we are ok train for a while now but watching these playoffs has opened my eyes and I just don't see this team going anywhere but down I'm afraid.

I have not seen one other team not stick up for each other which is how it should be and what I never see from the leafs, like ever. Their style or lack of offends my hockey senses. For me this is the main problem for this team and it may be the personnel or it is the directive from the top, either way it stinks.

Hopefully Dubas was just protecting the players post play in but if he was on the up and up thinking we are right there and the defense is fine then he has lost the plot and I was one of the happy ones when he was hired. Now he is inching closer to the disdain and contempt I had for past Gm's like Nonis and company....man I hated that guy....on a hockey iq level, not personally.

Mod edit ..

Agreed.

 

[Stephen]

Simmonds and Perry would change our team pretty quick and likely wouldn't be huge costs to acquire. They both slot in to a weak area of the roster - depth RW

I do think Perry would have a lot of trouble with the DOPS here. A lot more media attention when he decides to spear someone or throw a questionable hit

Yeah, I think Perry’s a volatile compound but when I see how passive they can be in crease crashing, crease defending situations or on the forecheck I think we need a guy to help drag the team into a higher state of compete, aggression, emotional investment - sort of like what Spezza did in Game 4 before the rally. As over the hill as he is, he’s played in some big moments and succeeded so I think he could only help.