Prospect Info: Analysis of Taylor Hall Trade/Return Assets

[MadDevil]

Correct me if I am wrong but prime Volchenkov never had good hands, was a smooth skater or was good at breakouts which has been touted for Bahl ever since his rise after the draft.

Look at those silky smooth hands.

 

[Azathoth]

Yea, Hall not signing a contract probably killed any chance of getting a meaningful roster player back in return. Any roster players we would have gotten for a rental Hall probably would have been the equivalent to a bottom pairing D or a bottom 6 forward, which isn't exactly where the team is struggling atm. It sucks we didn't get a blue chip prospect back, but its not like we ever were going to anyway. I trust the scouting dept to turn the 1st into something and to have a good idea what Bahl is as a player.

 

[JrFischer54]

real simple way to analyze the trade and the returns. ask yourself if the situation was reversed would you have wanted shero to trade smith for hall? or whoever our #2 prospect is for him as a rental? if the answer is no then there you go

 

[Pens x]

I still wouldn't say Hall coming back to the Devils is completely out of the picture. Obviously a lot has to happen, but if the Devils can pull bolster the prospect pool with even more prospects, get a legitimate coach (Boudreau, Cooper, Laviolette), and maybe flip some assets into another top pairing defender, I could see Hall giving the Devils another shot.

There’s no chance he goes back to the Devils...

 

[MadDevil]

It seems a bit extreme to write off the pick(s) and prospects we got before they've played a single game for the organization or have even been drafted.

 

[Rebel Devil]

Pronman doesn't have Soderstrom rated a lot higher than Bahl. He's got them both in the "Very Good/Legit Prospect" range and had Soderstrom at #102 and Bahl at #113 in his preseason rankings.

 

[Poppy Whoa Sonnet]

Thanks for the write up. My guess is Shero offered up a 50% retained Hall right out of the gate in order to get the best return / most number of bidders, as he should have.

The Hall return was adequate, the prospects are magic beans but if you squint you can see Bahl being useful (or possibly transcendent if you squint hard enough). The protections/conditions are there because Chayka's no dummy. I am fine with Shero taking this offer now and praying for a collapse. Even if you accept 82% as being the probability of Arizona making the playoffs, roughly 1 in 5 probability of being a top 15 pick is not bad, and if a trade were made at the deadline that probability would likely be a lot smaller with more information.

 

[MichaelJ]

real simple way to analyze the trade and the returns. ask yourself if the situation was reversed would you have wanted shero to trade smith for hall? or whoever our #2 prospect is for him as a rental? if the answer is no then there you go

It’s not that simple. The Devils are in a completely different spot than the suitors. If the Devils were in first place, had one of the best defensive groups in the league, had other decent defensive prospects, needed scoring, and had the opportunity to land a star player to go for it, I wouldn’t criticize the front office too harshly for going for it.

 

[Better Call Sal]

Look at those silky smooth hands.

Hey, he scored in the Stanley Cup Finals you know! He's a sharpshooter!

All kidding aside, I loved Volch for what he was. Unfortunately, his body began to fail him. A-Train was awesome though.

 

[Devils731]

Pronman doesn't have Soderstrom rated a lot higher than Bahl. He's got them both in the "Very Good/Legit Prospect" range and had Soderstrom at #102 and Bahl at #113 in his preseason rankings.

Trying to do reading up on Bahl and watch some clips it seems like he’s pretty divisive. One article talked about some scouts really see him as a guy who controls a game defensively in the NHL and other scouts see an NHL future where he plays ok defense and doesn’t help you out anywhere else.

So I get people hearing the latter and not being excited over Bahl but it feels, to me, like he’s getting underrated as a prospect due to being a second round pick and not having good counting numbers. Hopefully he’ll look good at the WJC and that’ll relieve a bit of some people’s stress(even though a short tournament is a bad way to judge players).

 

[Davegarri]

Trying to do reading up on Bahl and watch some clips it seems like he’s pretty divisive. One article talked about some scouts really see him as a guy who controls a game defensively in the NHL and other scouts see an NHL future where he plays ok defense and doesn’t help you out anywhere else.

So I get people hearing the latter and not being excited over Bahl but it feels, to me, like he’s getting underrated as a prospect due to being a second round pick and not having good counting numbers. Hopefully he’ll look good at the WJC and that’ll relieve a bit of some people’s stress(even though a short tournament is a bad way to judge players).

I've never seen him play so WJC is a showcase for me. Hope he blows us away.

We really need someone like a Colton Parayko, really hope Bahl can be that guy.

 

[MichaelJ]

Trying to do reading up on Bahl and watch some clips it seems like he’s pretty divisive. One article talked about some scouts really see him as a guy who controls a game defensively in the NHL and other scouts see an NHL future where he plays ok defense and doesn’t help you out anywhere else.

So I get people hearing the latter and not being excited over Bahl but it feels, to me, like he’s getting underrated as a prospect due to being a second round pick and not having good counting numbers. Hopefully he’ll look good at the WJC and that’ll relieve a bit of some people’s stress(even though a short tournament is a bad way to judge players).

I’m concerned that he’s going to be a lumbering goon who has difficulty transitioning to pro hockey. It’s easy to beat up on kids. I know, he skates better than average for someone ‘his size’ but that doesn’t really provide much encouragement. People want him to be a potential Colton Parayko (or Chara? Or Zadorov I suppose?) but I don’t think the chances are that high.

I hope he does well but until proven otherwise I have very low expectations for him.

 

[Better Call Sal]

I've never seen him play so WJC is a showcase for me. Hope he blows us away.

We really need someone like a Colton Parayko, really hope Bahl can be that guy.

Stop flirting with me like that.

 

[Devils731]

I’m concerned that he’s going to be a lumbering goon who has difficulty transitioning to pro hockey. It’s easy to beat up on kids. I know, he skates better than average for someone ‘his size’ but that doesn’t really provide much encouragement. People want him to be a potential Colton Parayko (or Chara? Or Zadorov I suppose?) but I don’t think the chances are that high.

I hope he does well but until proven otherwise I have very low expectations for him.

Mostly what I’ve seen says he’s a fine skater in general and then an impressive skater for his size.

Also, it seems he’s focused on breaking up plays using his stick and reach and not strength. So I don’t think he’s on Team Canada just because he’s so big.

Every prospect may have trouble transitioning but I don’t know why you would have “very low” expectations for him compared to any other prospect around his level unless you had a lot of personal viewings. For me, that’s just being negative to be negative.

 

[BenedictGomez]

Bahl is precisely the type of defenseman that all the, "new NHL" people hate.

Which, of course, means I love this addition.

 

[devilsblood]

It seems a bit extreme to write off the pick(s) and prospects we got before they've played a single game for the organization or have even been drafted.

He did say "may not" which is very possible.

But I'd rather have a first rounder who could turn into a really good player who you have control over for a decade, then a current NHL player who is decent, and is a UFA in 4 years.

 

[devilsblood]

Bahl is precisely the type of defenseman that all the, "new NHL" people hate.

Which, of course, means I love this addition.

I think he has the attributes of being a new generation big man. In that he skates pretty well and can constructively move the puck up ice.

What is interesting though is that prior to last years draft, Shero was known for coveting smaller puck movers, but since last years draft(maybe even in the year prior with Bernard) he has targeted d-men who are big guys and more defensively oriented.

And he has been criticized a bit for it.

 

[MichaelJ]

Mostly what I’ve seen says he’s a fine skater in general and then an impressive skater for his size.

Also, it seems he’s focused on breaking up plays using his stick and reach and not strength. So I don’t think he’s on Team Canada just because he’s so big.

Every prospect may have trouble transitioning but I don’t know why you would have “very low” expectations for him compared to any other prospect around his level unless you had a lot of personal viewings. For me, that’s just being negative to be negative.

Mostly what I’ve seen says he’s a fine skater in general and then an impressive skater for his size.

Also, it seems he’s focused on breaking up plays using his stick and reach and not strength. So I don’t think he’s on Team Canada just because he’s so big.

Every prospect may have trouble transitioning but I don’t know why you would have “very low” expectations for him compared to any other prospect around his level unless you had a lot of personal viewings. For me, that’s just being negative to be negative.

I’m not being negative just to be negative, I would love to be wrong.

It’s more from what I see as jumping on the bandwagon of what’s currently ‘it’ in the league. Happens in every sport. A few smaller, faster players have success, so teams fall all over themselves to get anything resembling the new ‘prototypical’ shiny toy. Now a team with bigger, stronger defensemen won and so we’re going to try and find the ‘next’ one of those.

Rather than copy the latest trends, I’d rather see the team have a steady plan or idea of what they want - a well-balanced group with some speed and some size but with solid hockey skills.

I’ll admit, I’m biased against tiny players as well as giants because the ones who are successful are outliers and to me it’s like taking a low-chance shot at a homerun. I’d rather go for multiple higher level chances of hitting a lot of doubles.

 

[MichaelJ]

I think he has the attributes of being a new generation big man. In that he skates pretty well and can constructively move the puck up ice.

What is interesting though is that prior to last years draft, Shero was known for coveting smaller puck movers, but since last years draft(maybe even in the year prior with Bernard) he has targeted d-men who are big guys and more defensively oriented.

And he has been criticized a bit for it.

The focus on the defensive drafting last year and maybe Bernard as you included has been great as far as I’m concerned. The team has enough of that kind of talent in their pipeline now that hopefully they can develop one steady and responsible bottom LHD with the chance of maybe getting an LHD2 out of it as well. I’m very comfortable with their chances.

 

[NJDevs26]

Look at those silky smooth hands.

I was gonna say the only Volch goal I ever remember was when he somehow got on a 2-on-1 with Kovy and I was apoplectic he gave up the puck to Volch but it was the correct hockey play and he scored

 

[SJinNewJersey]

Say what?

 

[Spoiled Bratt]

I’m not being negative just to be negative, I would love to be wrong.

It’s more from what I see as jumping on the bandwagon of what’s currently ‘it’ in the league. Happens in every sport. A few smaller, faster players have success, so teams fall all over themselves to get anything resembling the new ‘prototypical’ shiny toy. Now a team with bigger, stronger defensemen won and so we’re going to try and find the ‘next’ one of those.

Rather than copy the latest trends, I’d rather see the team have a steady plan or idea of what they want - a well-balanced group with some speed and some size but with solid hockey skills.

I’ll admit, I’m biased against tiny players as well as giants because the ones who are successful are outliers and to me it’s like taking a low-chance shot at a homerun. I’d rather go for multiple higher level chances of hitting a lot of doubles.

Ray is doing exactly what your want. We have a surplus of small, offensive minded puck moving dmen. He goes out and acquires a big body, defensive minded dman to compliment what we already have.

I don’t understand your concern if our Gm is doing everything in his power to balance offense with defence, something we clearly don’t have atm.

 

[MichaelJ]

Ray is doing exactly what your want. We have a surplus of small, offensive minded puck moving dmen. He goes out and acquires a big body, defensive minded dman to compliment what we already have.

I don’t understand your concern if our Gm is doing everything in his power to balance offense with defence, something we clearly don’t have atm.

My concern is that Bahl isn’t an answer.

When posters say we want more players with size on the team, we’re not interested in bigger players just for the sake of it. I just want players who are still skilled and less likely to be bullied like the midgets. For now this just seems like an over correction the other way, grabbing a huge defender just because he’s 6’6” and has put up some points in juniors. If he’d played and had success against pro players I’d probably be more comfortable. Until he does, I’m keeping my expectations low with the hope I’ll be wrong. I’m just not counting on him turning into anything....maybe a bottom pairing if we’re lucky.

 

[Lou is God]

My concern is that Bahl isn’t an answer.

When posters say we want more players with size on the team, we’re not interested in bigger players just for the sake of it. I just want players who are still skilled and less likely to be bullied like the midgets. For now this just seems like an over correction the other way, grabbing a huge defender just because he’s 6’6” and has put up some points in juniors. If he’d played and had success against pro players I’d probably be more comfortable. Until he does, I’m keeping my expectations low with the hope I’ll be wrong. I’m just not counting on him turning into anything....maybe a bottom pairing if we’re lucky.

Do you feel this way with all players in the Juniors? Bahl might not be a blue chip prospect but he's not a marginal one either, many feel his potential is top 4.

 

[Rebel Devil]

Trying to do reading up on Bahl and watch some clips it seems like he’s pretty divisive. One article talked about some scouts really see him as a guy who controls a game defensively in the NHL and other scouts see an NHL future where he plays ok defense and doesn’t help you out anywhere else.

So I get people hearing the latter and not being excited over Bahl but it feels, to me, like he’s getting underrated as a prospect due to being a second round pick and not having good counting numbers. Hopefully he’ll look good at the WJC and that’ll relieve a bit of some people’s stress(even though a short tournament is a bad way to judge players).

Even Pronman himself said he has really warmed up to Bahl after initially being lukewarm on him as a prospect. He wrote an article for the Athletic two weeks ago where he named a handful of prospects he was wrong about .. Bahl was one of them.