Proposal: Ana/NYR/NJ/Edm

[Connor McConnor]

Yeah RNH is 2x the player Kreider is, hell no from Edmonton.

Probably hypberbole but Kreider is a very good player. I would have no arguments with people going either way here but as an Oiler fan I know for a fact RNH has a much higher ceiling which is why I would not make this trade even if it was for Kreider straight up.

 

[Puckclektr]

I’ll keep severson thanks.

 

[ManofSteel55]

This, AINEC.

If you say AINEC, then that just shows that the guy you quoted was wrong.

 

[ManofSteel55]

agree to disagree
RNH is a slightly more talented Stepan.
solid, but not spectacular
nothing more, nothing less

Kreider can actually dominate.
rnh is more skilled with his shot
but ck wins the other talent competitions
speed, strength, etc

Can dominate, but one 50 point season shows that he doesn't, even if he "can".

 

[SeidoN]

certainly not from NJ

 

[Sparksrus3]

This is a proposal for fun doubt this would ever happen.
Rangers-Ryan Nugent Hopkins
Devils- Jacob Silfverberg
Ducks- Chris Kreider
Oilers- Damon Severson
Rangers get a much improved Center fit for a rebuild.
Devils get a secondary goal scorer.
Ducks add some speed and goals on the wing
Oilers add a defensemen which can jump into plays and be offensive.

What time does the fun start ?

 

[The Noot]

I mean, as a Ducks fan I obviously approve, but that proposal is far from fair for the other parties.

 

[PhilJets]

Not enough teams involve

Bad for the Oilers though.

 

[One Winged Angel]

Rangers don't need a #2 center. Kreider can be a 1st/2nd line winger.

Hell no from the Rangers perspective.

 

[TFHockey]

Rangers don't need a #2 center. Kreider can be a 1st/2nd line winger.

Hell no from the Rangers perspective.

RNH can be both, actually. Anyways, I know NYR fans love Kreider and what he brings. Four team trades usually favor one team.

 

[One Winged Angel]

RNH can be both, actually. Anyways, I know NYR fans love Kreider and what he brings. Four team trades usually favor one team.

A legit number 1?

The Rangers need a legitimate number one center. RNH has never shown that type of production at any point in his career.

Nice player, but the Rangers traded Derek Stepan, who is a very similar player, at the 2017 draft. I have a very hard time seeing the Rangers trading for RNH to be their answer at center, especially at the expense of Chris Kreider.

 

[TFHockey]

A legit number 1?

The Rangers need a legitimate number one center. RNH has never shown that type of production at any point in his career.

Nice player, but the Rangers traded Derek Stepan, who is a very similar player, at the 2017 draft. I have a very hard time seeing the Rangers trading for RNH to be their answer at center, especially at the expense of Chris Kreider.

He's played as a 1C against top competition long before McDavid got here. Regardless I wasn't referring to that. I meant RNH can be your 2C or 1W. He is currently in that role on the Oilers. That makes him very hard to trade.

If RNH is your 1C you're not deep enough at center. We know this first hand.

 

[NYR713]

Yeah RNH is 2x the player Kreider is, hell no from Edmonton.

I'd love to see you explain this statement. Where can you show me RNH being 2x the player? Is it the .13 PPG career difference when RNH averaged 3+ more minutes per game? Because I wouldn't really be jumping on that one?

Can't be any advanced metrics because RNH isn't even close there.

Because he's a C who takes FO's? RNH is 43.9% career on that so not sure I'd go for that stat as a plus.

Let's see... Kreider's last (almost - 75 games) full season was 2016-17, since he had the whole career threatening blood clots and rib surgery thing last season. RNH played 82 in 2017. Both teams were playoff teams with support around them.
Kreider - 75GP 28G 25A = 53P in 15:37ATOI CF% Rel 8.5
RNH - 82GP 18G 25A = 43P in 17:42ATOI CF% Rel -0.8

I guess we're also forgetting the physical tools Kreider brings that RNH can't touch.

I just don't see it man. I don't see RNH being 2X the player Kreider is. But you're probably right and looking at it objectively.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I'd love to see you explain this statement. Where can you show me RNH being 2x the player? Is it the .13 PPG career difference when RNH averaged 3+ more minutes per game? Because I wouldn't really be jumping on that one?

Can't be any advanced metrics because RNH isn't even close there.

Because he's a C who takes FO's? RNH is 43.9% career on that so not sure I'd go for that stat as a plus.

Let's see... Kreider's last (almost - 75 games) full season was 2016-17, since he had the whole career threatening blood clots and rib surgery thing last season. RNH played 82 in 2017. Both teams were playoff teams with support around them.
Kreider - 75GP 28G 25A = 53P in 15:37ATOI CF% Rel 8.5
RNH - 82GP 18G 25A = 43P in 17:42ATOI CF% Rel -0.8

I guess we're also forgetting the physical tools Kreider brings that RNH can't touch.

I just don't see it man. I don't see RNH being 2X the player Kreider is. But you're probably right and looking at it objectively.

Picking Keider's best season and RNH's worst season do do a comparison seems pretty "objective" as well.

 

[NYR713]

Picking Keider's best season and RNH's worst season do do a comparison seems pretty "objective" as well.

It's the two most recent full seasons for each player when both had similar team situations. It was also the last part of the statement with career points before it. If you really want to break it down we can go points per minute played. You need to jump on one piece of my statement and forget the rest because you've got nothing.

The point being debated is that RNH is 2x the player Kreider is, which I've blown out of the water. You have an open floor to prove it since you've now joined the conversation.

 

[One Winged Angel]

He's played as a 1C against top competition long before McDavid got here. Regardless I wasn't referring to that. I meant RNH can be your 2C or 1W. He is currently in that role on the Oilers. That makes him very hard to trade.

If RNH is your 1C you're not deep enough at center. We know this first hand.

Ok, so then you see it from our perspective then. That's all I'm getting across.

The Rangers need a Jack Hughes more than anything.

 

[TFHockey]

It's the two most recent full seasons for each player when both had similar team situations. It was also the last part of the statement with career points before it. If you really want to break it down we can go points per minute played. You need to jump on one piece of my statement and forget the rest because you've got nothing.

The point being debated is that RNH is 2x the player Kreider is, which I've blown out of the water. You have an open floor to prove it since you've now joined the conversation.

We can look at both players entire career. That might give a better picture.

Chris Kreider, 27 Years old. LW.

2012-2013	New York Rangers	NHL	23	2	1	3	6	|	Playoffs	8	1	1	2	0
	Hartford Wolf Pack	AHL	48	12	11	23	73	|
2013-2014	New York Rangers	NHL	66	17	20	37	72	|	Playoffs	15	5	8	13	14
	Hartford Wolf Pack	AHL	6	2	2	4	16	|
2014-2015	New York Rangers	NHL	80	21	25	46	88	|	Playoffs	19	7	2	9	14
2015-2016	New York Rangers	NHL	79	21	22	43	58	|	Playoffs	5	2	0	2	6
2016-2017	New York Rangers	NHL	75	28	25	53	58	|	Playoffs	12	3	1	4	18
2017-2018	New York Rangers	NHL	58	16	21	37	44	|
	USA	WC	10	4	6	10	2

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Ryan Nugent Hopkins 25 years old, C, LW

2011-2012	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	62	18	34	52	16	|
	Canada	WC	8	4	2	6	4	|
2012-2013	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	40	4	20	24	8	|
	Oklahoma City Barons	AHL	19	8	12	20	6	|
	Canada U20	WJC-20	6	4	11	15	4	|
2013-2014	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	80	19	37	56	26	|
2014-2015	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	76	24	32	56	25	|
2015-2016	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	55	12	22	34	18	|
2016-2017	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	82	18	25	43	29	|	Playoffs	13	0	4	4	2
	Team North America	WCup	3	1	2	3	2	|
2017-2018	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	62	24	24	48	20	|
	Canada	WC	10	5	3	8	2	|
2018-2019	Edmonton Oilers	NHL	-	-	-	-	-	|

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[tradenashnow]

This is a proposal for fun doubt this would ever happen.
Rangers-Ryan Nugent Hopkins
Devils- Jacob Silfverberg
Ducks- Chris Kreider
Oilers- Damon Severson
Rangers get a much improved Center fit for a rebuild.
Devils get a secondary goal scorer.
Ducks add some speed and goals on the wing
Oilers add a defensemen which can jump into plays and be offensive.

Shocking, a Devils fan who keeps proposing trades where the Rangers get screwed. 1. RNH is overrated and over paid. 2. Kreider is by far an all around better and more important player. 3. Rangers have zero needs for centers. Kreider is one of the elite net front presences in the league. He's excellent defensively. He can be a physical force now that pansy AV is gone.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

It's the two most recent full seasons for each player when both had similar team situations. It was also the last part of the statement with career points before it. If you really want to break it down we can go points per minute played. You need to jump on one piece of my statement and forget the rest because you've got nothing.

LOL...I "jumped" on your one piece because it was the central point and 2/3rds of your post. I'm saying that choosing 1 season to compare players is downright useless.

The point being debated is that RNH is 2x the player Kreider is, which I've blown out of the water. You have an open floor to prove it since you've now joined the conversation.

I don't think RNH is 2x the player as Kreider is and wasn't trying to say he was. I was simply pointing out the absurdity of your analysis using 1 season (1 players best, the other players worst). And a couple of NYR fans said Kreider > RNH AINEC, yet I don't see you "jumping" on them for that statement.

But, since you ask.
1) Kreider is 2 years older than RNH
2) Kreider is strictly a winger, RNH can play both positions.
3) RNH had three 50+ point season, Kreider has one
4) RNH has averaged 21G, 56P / 82 games across his NHL career, Kreider has averaged 23G, 47P / 82 games across his career.

I realize there is more to it than points so I can see a case made for either player, so no, I do NOT think RNH is 2x the player that Kreider is. Nor do I think that Kreider > RNH "AINEC". And as I repeated, using 1 season to make your assessment is pretty absurd.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Ok, so then you see it from our perspective then. That's all I'm getting across.

The Rangers need a Jack Hughes more than anything.

Side note, do you see the Rangers being bad enough to get a guy like Hughes (barring a lottery win)? Unless they trade off a bunch of guys, it seems they will be more competitive than many people outside people give them credit for, especially if a couple of the rookies (Chytl/Andersson step up).

 

[McSuper]

LOL...I "jumped" on your one piece because it was the central point and 2/3rds of your post. I'm saying that choosing 1 season to compare players is downright useless.



I don't think RNH is 2x the player as Kreider is and wasn't trying to say he was. I was simply pointing out the absurdity of your analysis using 1 season (1 players best, the other players worst). And a couple of NYR fans said Kreider > RNH AINEC, yet I don't see you "jumping" on them for that statement.

But, since you ask.
1) Kreider is 2 years older than RNH
2) Kreider is strictly a winger, RNH can play both positions.
3) RNH had three 50+ point season, Kreider has one
4) RNH has averaged 21G, 56P / 82 games across his NHL career, Kreider has averaged 23G, 47P / 82 games across his career.

I realize there is more to it than points so I can see a case made for either player, so no, I do NOT think RNH is 2x the player that Kreider is. Nor do I think that Kreider > RNH "AINEC". And as I repeated, using 1 season to make your assessment is pretty absurd.

I agree RNH is the better player . I just don't like statements where people say 2x better . There no way to prove it .

Ranger fans calling Kreider elite is also a joke . 50 point players aren't elite and yet the say RNH is overrated LOL . All things being equal a C has more value but things aren't equal RNH put up his points while being used as a shut down C . Kreider they call the best net present . Great he score in front of the net all goals are equal and helps a team win and RNH has out score Kreider more often then not

 

[NYR713]

LOL...I "jumped" on your one piece because it was the central point and 2/3rds of your post. I'm saying that choosing 1 season to compare players is downright useless.



I don't think RNH is 2x the player as Kreider is and wasn't trying to say he was. I was simply pointing out the absurdity of your analysis using 1 season (1 players best, the other players worst). And a couple of NYR fans said Kreider > RNH AINEC, yet I don't see you "jumping" on them for that statement.

But, since you ask.
1) Kreider is 2 years older than RNH
2) Kreider is strictly a winger, RNH can play both positions.
3) RNH had three 50+ point season, Kreider has one
4) RNH has averaged 21G, 56P / 82 games across his NHL career, Kreider has averaged 23G, 47P / 82 games across his career.

I realize there is more to it than points so I can see a case made for either player, so no, I do NOT think RNH is 2x the player that Kreider is. Nor do I think that Kreider > RNH "AINEC". And as I repeated, using 1 season to make your assessment is pretty absurd.

There is nothing absurd about it. You can keep saying that to make yourself feel better if you want. You are fine with saying that my argument that RNH is not 2x the player, but cherry picking other points ... just to argue because you already agreed with my main point.

You're still excluding points that were made in the first post, like the fact that RNH has averaged 3+ minutes more per game through is career. You're talking 50 point seasons and he averaged 5 more minutes per game than Kreider in the most recent 2 seasons... 13-14 and 14-15 (4 and 5 years ago, dude). If you're going to compare two things with such wide ranging variables, you'll have to break it down even more. Points per minute played would be the closest way to compare the two because of coaching deployments over the years... and they're dead on. Kreider even has the slight edge .0366 vs .0361 over their careers.

So I can cherry pick shit too. For someone that "can play both positions" RNH sucks at faceoffs. Kreider has a better career FO%. We won't take into account that RNH has almost 7000 face offs as compared to Kreider having about 115 career faceoffs... just that he has a better career FO%. That's on par with what you're doing with your listed points above.

Since we're still cherry picking without taking the other variables into account... we should also compare playoff scoring. Kreider has 37 playoff points as compared to RNH's 4. That's a huge difference... right? Nevermind the fact that Kreider has played 64 more games... we aren't looking at that. Just making garbage arguments here.

 

[WhoTagz]

Rangers say no thanks

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

There is nothing absurd about it.

Yes, there is. If you can't see that, then I can't help you.

Since we're still cherry picking without taking the other variables into account... we should also compare playoff scoring. Kreider has 37 playoff points as compared to RNH's 4. That's a huge difference... right? Nevermind the fact that Kreider has played 64 more games... we aren't looking at that. Just making garbage arguments here.

This is a joke right?

 

[NYR713]

Yes, there is. If you can't see that, then I can't help you.



This is a joke right?

I think your reading comprehension needs work man. What are you highlighting? The sentence above that is me making an absurd argument(like you're doing) saying Kreider has more playoff points. Then what you're highlighting is me showing how f***ing absurd my point was before it.

And... the old "If you can't see that, then I can't help you" is always a great cop out. Hell of an argument there bub. You probably should have just kept your bad arguments to yourself.