An Anti-Attendance Thread: Info on Gate Receipts

[ColoradoHockeyFan]

He sent me a PM saying we should have an HF cookoff, whereby the chili wasn't actually tasted, but the ingredients for each was simply examined to determine which one should taste better.

Best line of the entire thread, right there.

Everyone else can just stop now.

 

[Gee Wally]

helluva thread here....

just wanted to drop by to say that I oppose book burnings....
I think people should actually spend more time with a good book under a shady tree. The world would be a better place.

I also oppose a minority (less than one percent here) of people that think just because they may have a right to say something don't realize that right doesn't make it right to do so.

For those that want to know my feelings on anything else, feel free to PM me....I'll reply as soon as I can.....right now my twins need baths...


later,

wally

 

[vivianmb]

1. The moderator was enjoying a day out and about before the STORM OF THE YEAR hits tomorrow and Monday, and I have to lock down to study for an exam in 13 days. We get to do that on occasion, we're not required to be online 24/7.

2. Make your points without the name calling.

[deleted - don't try this again]

As for other stuff,
3. No one has been banned from this forum (or even this thread). Even if someone was given the boot, I certainly wouldn't mention it.
pointless sentence

4. There will be no discussing of donuts in this thread - make a new thread to do that.

huh?

 

[mucker*]

as a Caps fan, i can't deny that most of this is true.

However if you think the Caps should move than you really need to learn a little about how big a market the DC area is. Even with bad attendace this is still a market the NHL can't ignore and needs to do well.

I would also like to point out that there are very few teams in the NHL that would get good crowds with a poor team. It wasn't that long ago the team was averaging over 17K fans a night.

And if you look at some of the elite teams in the NHL (Anahiem, Buffalo, New Jersey, Nashville) the Caps have averaged around the same # of fans as those teams have over the last 5-6 years. And have done just as well in attendance as Chicago and Boston as well, who I would not call illegite hockey towns.

The problem with the Caps is that so many seats are not actually sold by the Caps. The majority of the club level is sold in a package with and by the Wizards. Pretty much the entire club level is sold, however if you look at that section during the games it is near empty. And there are so many tickets that are owned by business's rather than individuals. Which is why there are so many people at Caps games who really don't know much about the game. And why so many tickets that have actually been purchased are not used.

The Caps don't, and never did draw.
When they had decent teams, even then they did not draw, the times when it wasn't downright bad, there were tons of empty seats, or non fans, and fans of other teams.

I am so tired of hearing the club seat excuse, those club seats sales actually help the Caps because they make it appear on paper they have more people there than really are.

DC is not by itself without Baltimore a big enough market that the NHL badly needs it too suceed.
The area is more of a transplant region with business people, which is why whenever the Caps do have ok attendance, it's road fans and business non fans.

If the Caps and DC actually were a good hockey and sports town they wouldn't have this problem, but as it is really I find it annoying to have Cap fans use the same club seat excuse when in actuality those sold seats inflate the team's attendance of which otherwise would be unsold.

Face it, the Caps are a bad hockey town, they invented the blocking road playoff teams from buying tickets because they would get embarassed at home, then when they couldn't sell out playoff games, after their owner insulted real hockey fans he cried.

The Caps fans, the few exist are novice with their knowledge and generally immature and childish, they do not root for their team or hockey, instead they try and act tough but it comes off as really being a poser, witness not enough annoucing Jagr's 1,500 point.
Classy.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

huh?

The way you mis-used the "quote" feature, you're making it look as though IB said ridiculous things which he did not say. Whether it's deliberate or not, that's irresponsible on your part.

 

[Timmy]

The way you used IB, it's irresponsible on your part.

Not to mention illegal in 47 states.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Not to mention illegal in 47 states.

And how!

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Not to mention illegal in 47 states.

And in French Guyana.

I have a very low tolerance for quoting someone's post, then altering it to make it appear that they said something they in fact didn't.

 

[GetPucksDeep]

1st - let me present my credentials as a ticket-ho.

Games attended 33 (3 preseason, 29 reg season, 1 playoff).

Total tickets consumed 45 (the kid saw a dozen games with me.)

Total cash outlay for tickets - $319. ($7.08 per.) (total face was $2514.)

Number of tickets in the $10 cheap seats (zero).

Ya can't beat expansion market hockey!!

p.s. - I spent another $5 a game on parking.

 

[vivianmb]

And in French Guyana.

I have a very low tolerance for quoting someone's post, then altering it to make it appear that they said something they in fact didn't.

RIDICULOUS.

 

[coyoteshockeyfan]

RIDICULOUS.

You're right, misrepresenting the words of others is ridiculous.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

We'll now move back to the discussion of gate receipts and attendance, already in progress.

 

[stanleycaps18]

Baltimore is its own DMA.

Plenty of people here, between the close-in Maryland Counties and Northern Virginia.

Certainly both the NFL and MLB thought enough of the region to have two teams from those leagues here and in Baltimore.

Do the research on demographics before you spout off.

Oh, and do some research about Jagr's tenure here before you go defending him and any concept of killing what was one of the longest playoff streaks and good attendance strings in the NHL.

The Caps don't, and never did draw.
When they had decent teams, even then they did not draw, the times when it wasn't downright bad, there were tons of empty seats, or non fans, and fans of other teams.

I am so tired of hearing the club seat excuse, those club seats sales actually help the Caps because they make it appear on paper they have more people there than really are.

DC is not by itself without Baltimore a big enough market that the NHL badly needs it too suceed.
The area is more of a transplant region with business people, which is why whenever the Caps do have ok attendance, it's road fans and business non fans.

If the Caps and DC actually were a good hockey and sports town they wouldn't have this problem, but as it is really I find it annoying to have Cap fans use the same club seat excuse when in actuality those sold seats inflate the team's attendance of which otherwise would be unsold.

Face it, the Caps are a bad hockey town, they invented the blocking road playoff teams from buying tickets because they would get embarassed at home, then when they couldn't sell out playoff games, after their owner insulted real hockey fans he cried.

The Caps fans, the few exist are novice with their knowledge and generally immature and childish, they do not root for their team or hockey, instead they try and act tough but it comes off as really being a poser, witness not enough annoucing Jagr's 1,500 point.
Classy.

 

[GSC2k2*]

The Caps don't, and never did draw.

This site would appear to contradict your seemingly baseless charge with actual empirical evidence.

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Business/NHL-attendance.htm

 

[GSC2k2*]

Jesus, not the Annual Actuary Ale and Chili Cookoff, again.

Didn't they have to evacuate about twenty blocks around your house last year?



And, you should be on here 24 hours a day. Carpenter's been getting uppity lately.

LATELY? That's all??!?

I obviously need to work on my game.

 

[Jasper17]

The Caps don't, and never did draw.
When they had decent teams, even then they did not draw, the times when it wasn't downright bad, there were tons of empty seats, or non fans, and fans of other teams.

I am so tired of hearing the club seat excuse, those club seats sales actually help the Caps because they make it appear on paper they have more people there than really are.

DC is not by itself without Baltimore a big enough market that the NHL badly needs it too suceed.
The area is more of a transplant region with business people, which is why whenever the Caps do have ok attendance, it's road fans and business non fans.

If the Caps and DC actually were a good hockey and sports town they wouldn't have this problem, but as it is really I find it annoying to have Cap fans use the same club seat excuse when in actuality those sold seats inflate the team's attendance of which otherwise would be unsold.

Face it, the Caps are a bad hockey town, they invented the blocking road playoff teams from buying tickets because they would get embarassed at home, then when they couldn't sell out playoff games, after their owner insulted real hockey fans he cried.

The Caps fans, the few exist are novice with their knowledge and generally immature and childish, they do not root for their team or hockey, instead they try and act tough but it comes off as really being a poser, witness not enough annoucing Jagr's 1,500 point.
Classy.

I really wasn't trying to get into an arguement with you, but the more you write the more I can tell you really don't know what you are talking about.

First DC is a rather large market, how anyone can argue that is kinda funny.

Second, I am pretty sure attendance is the # of people that actually "attend" the game. Not just tickets sold. So your theory of how the club seats actually inflate the attendance #'s is not true.

And finally, besides this last few years when has the Caps average attendance been that far below league average? I would never claim that the Caps were one of league leaders in attendance or anything like that. However I am pretty sure that since the Caps moved into the Verizon center they have attracted close to an average of 16000 fans per game, thats not that bad. Obviously that is not including the last 2 years, however as I said before name me some teams that do well at the gate when they are horrible?

Its obvious now that you have some personal issue with the Caps. I am guessing you went to a game and something happened and now you are upset. By the way you keep crying about Caps fans, i am guessing you or someone you know prob got scared by someone threatening you or something. Maybe someone stole your girl and knocked her up in a alley, who knows. But thats not just Caps fans, thats DC (much like NY, Phili, and many other cities). If you think a Caps game is bad I suggest you go to a skins game, I am sure you will get welcomed with open arms.

Sorry your feelings got hurt while in town, but by the way you are coming off in this little rant I am sure you disserved it.

oh, and i love how now you are claiming that not only is DC not a good hockey town, but a bad sports town in general. Which is just a amazingly stupid comment considering you have to basically inherit Skins tickets and the Wizards have averaged around 17.5-18 thousand every game. Its actually only the Caps that don't do well, and like I said they have only not done well the last 2 years because they are awful. Hell even the Nationals do alright and they have no team and no stadium.

 

[GSC2k2*]

Objection. Clearly the character of Mr. Carpenter is being defamed here. If you could past GC by alleging that 'alleged ingredients' were even used in something allegedly called Chili - the definition of which depends on the state you're in... you might get to taste something, but calling it chili would be a contentious issue.

Heinous allegations, and I deny each and every one of them and put you all to the strict proof thereof.

Besides, it is well known that chili has never been the same since Bettman started changing the recipe by incorporating non-traditional elements like gumbo, pecans, okra and biscuits and gravy.

 

[Jasper17]

This site would appear to contradict your seemingly baseless charge with actual empirical evidence.

http://www.andrewsstarspage.com/NHL-Business/NHL-attendance.htm

nice, i was trying to find a site with stats past the last 5-6 years but couldn't find one. Just as I thought, besides these last 2 years the Caps have been around league average.

no one is going to claim this as a hockey town, because it is def a Skins town and prob 4th on the depth chart for DC sports fans. But even with that the Caps attendance has not been nearly as bad as that guy has been trying to say.

really i just want to know who and why he got smacked around at Verizon, because you know this is all just personal bs.

 

[mucker*]

Baltimore is its own DMA.

Plenty of people here, between the close-in Maryland Counties and Northern Virginia.

Certainly both the NFL and MLB thought enough of the region to have two teams from those leagues here and in Baltimore.

Do the research on demographics before you spout off.

Oh, and do some research about Jagr's tenure here before you go defending him and any concept of killing what was one of the longest playoff streaks and good attendance strings in the NHL.

I live in that area, it's a growing market but it's not big enough to the fact where the NHL really needs it to suceed, as far as attendance, I've been in the area, they don't draw.

When they had a decent or better team, they had more seats sold as your link stated, but many of them were like the club seats, businesses entertaining clients, non hockey casual fans, or road fans, this never has been a hardcore, strongly supported team, attednace even when decent has been embarassing with all the no shows, non fans, and road fans, which inflate the attendance considerably.

Jagr ending their playoff streak?
They missed it in 1997 before he came, he didn't end any long streak.

 

[mucker*]

I really wasn't trying to get into an arguement with you, but the more you write the more I can tell you really don't know what you are talking about.

First DC is a rather large market, how anyone can argue that is kinda funny.

Second, I am pretty sure attendance is the # of people that actually "attend" the game. Not just tickets sold. So your theory of how the club seats actually inflate the attendance #'s is not true.

And finally, besides this last few years when has the Caps average attendance been that far below league average? I would never claim that the Caps were one of league leaders in attendance or anything like that. However I am pretty sure that since the Caps moved into the Verizon center they have attracted close to an average of 16000 fans per game, thats not that bad. Obviously that is not including the last 2 years, however as I said before name me some teams that do well at the gate when they are horrible?

Its obvious now that you have some personal issue with the Caps. I am guessing you went to a game and something happened and now you are upset. By the way you keep crying about Caps fans, i am guessing you or someone you know prob got scared by someone threatening you or something. Maybe someone stole your girl and knocked her up in a alley, who knows. But thats not just Caps fans, thats DC (much like NY, Phili, and many other cities). If you think a Caps game is bad I suggest you go to a skins game, I am sure you will get welcomed with open arms.

Sorry your feelings got hurt while in town, but by the way you are coming off in this little rant I am sure you disserved it.

oh, and i love how now you are claiming that not only is DC not a good hockey town, but a bad sports town in general. Which is just a amazingly stupid comment considering you have to basically inherit Skins tickets and the Wizards have averaged around 17.5-18 thousand every game. Its actually only the Caps that don't do well, and like I said they have only not done well the last 2 years because they are awful. Hell even the Nationals do alright and they have no team and no stadium.

No, it's not personel.
I have gone to many games there and other rinks, DC hockey games have the most novice, immature fans.
I can go to many other places were the game is known, or at the very least I don't have a 25 year old acting like a jealous 12 year old because I am rooting for the road team.
Unlike other cities which take it in stride, Cap fans, the few they have, are quite immature and make it a point and act very babish to road fans, they aren't tough like PHI because PHI is a real sports town, they are flatout immature posers who really make the game unenjoyable.

Chalk it to 16 years living in the area.

 

[mucker*]

If you have any other grips with what I said feel free to PM or Email because the purpose on here wasn't to insight and I don't want to get into anything like that.

I have decades of experience in this area with these fans, I hold my position and any emperical and really non defensive observer here would agree.

 

[Jasper17]

When they had a decent or better team, they had more seats sold as your link stated, but many of them were like the club seats, businesses entertaining clients, non hockey casual fans, or road fans, this never has been a hardcore, strongly supported team, attednace even when decent has been embarassing with all the no shows, non fans, and road fans, which inflate the attendance considerably..

buddy, your wrong. Unused tickets do not count as attendance. Only the people that actually show up count as attendance (that is how it was done with the sports teams I have worked for in the past).

Its true that when they do have fans in the stands a good portion are the business clients/casual fans as no one would ever argue that this is a hardcore hockey city.

But your ideas that there shouldn't be a team in this area, or that no one ever shows up to games (which I see in this post you are backing away from), or that this isn't a good/real sports town are just idiotic.

I know for a fact that on average about 90% of the club section and around 75 % of the lower level seats are sold for every single Caps home game. But the reason why the attendance (notice how I bolded the attend part) is low is because many go unused, and the reason why there are always a decent number of "away" is because so many people that live in DC and love hockey are not from DC. However when this team is good again, people will start using those seats again.

But the simple fact is even the best hockey towns struggle to attract fans if the team is horrible. Go take a look at Detroit (aka hockey town's) attendance figures back when they were a poor team.

And you can't really claim something as not personal, and then say "I don't have a 25 year old acting like a jealous 12 year old because I am rooting for the road team".

 

[mucker*]

buddy, your wrong. Unused tickets do not count as attendance. Only the people that actually show up count as attendance (that is how it was done with the sports teams I have worked for in the past).

Its true that when they do have fans in the stands a good portion are the business clients/casual fans as no one would ever argue that this is a hardcore hockey city.

But your ideas that there shouldn't be a team in this area, or that no one ever shows up to games (which I see in this post you are backing away from), or that this isn't a good/real sports town are just idiotic.

I know for a fact that on average about 90% of the club section and around 75 % of the lower level seats are sold for every single Caps home game. But the reason why the attendance (notice how I bolded the attend part) is low is because many go unused, and the reason why there are always a decent number of "away" is because so many people that live in DC and love hockey are not from DC. However when this team is good again, people will start using those seats again.

But the simple fact is even the best hockey towns struggle to attract fans if the team is horrible. Go take a look at Detroit (aka hockey town's) attendance figures back when they were a poor team.

And you can't really claim something as not personal, and then say "I don't have a 25 year old acting like a jealous 12 year old because I am rooting for the road team".

I don't want you dragging this into something which gets us into trouble, if you got a problem feel free to PM or email me.

I know teams count ticket sales NOT fans in seats, ask anybody.
If you are going by this point then I do not know why I bother.

What I also know is DC attendance with bad in itself is no shame, but this has been a long trend, and even when the team has been good attendance hasn't been that good nor has the quality of those who showed.

I've been to many games in DC and grew up in the area, my assesment is fair and accurate, the fact that Caps fans keep pointing to having a bad team, club seats being sold, or Boston not drawing to somehow argue in their favor says it all.

 

[Timmy]

I don't want you dragging this into something which gets us into trouble, if you got a problem feel free to PM or email me.

I know teams count ticket sales NOT fans in seats, ask anybody.
If you are going by this point then I do not know why I bother.

What I also know is DC attendance with bad in itself is no shame, but this has been a long trend, and even when the team has been good attendance hasn't been that good nor has the quality of those who showed.

I've been to many games in DC and grew up in the area, my assesment is fair and accurate, the fact that Caps fans keep pointing to having a bad team, club seats being sold, or Boston not drawing to somehow argue in their favor says it all.

So, what do you think the solution is?

 

[Hawker14]

buddy, your wrong. Unused tickets do not count as attendance. Only the people that actually show up count as attendance (that is how it was done with the sports teams I have worked for in the past).

The NHL counts all tickets distributed as attendance, not people in the seats, nor actual tickets sold. To illustrate this, the following are pictures from the evening the Phoenix Coyotes honoured former Winnipeg Jet legend Dale Hawerchuk.

The announced attendance was 15,965. Hopefully these pictures will illustrate for you that the NHL's announced attendance is different than the actual people in the building.

http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/7954/imgp0015cc7.jpg
http://img201.imageshack.us/img201/4737/imgp0027vw6.jpg
http://img406.imageshack.us/img406/406/imgp0031gk0.jpg
http://img401.imageshack.us/img401/6421/imgp0030id7.jpg
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/5377/imgp0017gp1.jpg