Player Discussion Alzner

[Captain Mountain]

Nicely said. 10/10 for writing style, but unfortunately 0/10 for truth. Why do you have to exaggerate his weaknesses? Come on now. Here's Weber burning the fastest skater on Montreal:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThirdInsignificantGorilla-mobile.mp4

I'll agree that Weber's weaknesses were exaggerated, but what are you talking about? It took Byron two strides to catch up to Weber. You'll also note that Weber neither carried nor passed the puck out of the zone himself and peeled back at the end of the gif. He didn't burn anyone, he used his position behind the net to start a play up the ice. It was Josi that exited the D-zone, entered the O-zone and used his speed and ability to carry the puck to get an attack with numbers.

You think Alzner is going to do what Josi did there?

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Nicely said. 10/10 for writing style, but unfortunately 0/10 for truth. Why do you have to exaggerate his weaknesses? Come on now. Here's Weber burning the fastest skater on Montreal:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThirdInsignificantGorilla-mobile.mp4

If I was going to choose a clip to defend Weber's transition with... this wouldn't be it.

Reality is that he plays a simplified game. He's not terrible at transition but he's not great at it either. He's certainly not what I'd consider a puck moving blueliner.

Alzner's not going to help with this. We've lost Beau and maybe Markov. That really only leaves Petry who can transition well. It's not the way to win.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Nicely said. 10/10 for writing style, but unfortunately 0/10 for truth. Why do you have to exaggerate his weaknesses? Come on now. Here's Weber burning the fastest skater on Montreal:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/ThirdInsignificantGorilla-mobile.mp4

Wait, I thought Weber couldn't skate, pass, or break the team out of his zone?

 

[LaP]

Wait, I thought Weber couldn't skate, pass, or break the team out of his zone?

 

[Hoople]

That pretty much sums it up, does it not?

Our transition was a hell of alot better with Martin, who knew how to exploit PK/Markov, than it was with Therrien and he had better tools to work with. The players were fine then.

Only now I'd say, with Bergevin gutting the team's PMDs, is it a player-oriented problem.

LOL

Jacques Martin???? Former Habs coach under Gauthier?

217, 216, 212. That's the goals scored with Martin as coach. Hell, even the Therrien team that failed to make the playoffs score 221 goals.

Martin was the true dunce coach for the Habs. No offense. No creativity. He did have the perfect scowl though.

Strange to see the love for Martin.

 

[Hoople]

If I was going to choose a clip to defend Weber's transition with... this wouldn't be it.

Reality is that he plays a simplified game. He's not terrible at transition but he's not great at it either. He's certainly not what I'd consider a puck moving blueliner.

Alzner's not going to help with this. We've lost Beau and maybe Markov. That really only leaves Petry who can transition well. It's not the way to win.

No one ever said Weber was a puck moving blue liner. Ever.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Wait, I thought Weber couldn't skate, pass, or break the team out of his zone?

Now I understand. Because one example where he make a play while skating the puck out his zones, proves something.

So for 82+ games in a year, at 25+ minutes a game this who Weber is. We evaluate players on the rare plays they make and not on the consistent plays they make and do well.

Weber is a puck carrying, puck moving defensemen from this example.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

Now I understand. Because one example where he make a play while skating the puck out his zones, proves something.

So for 82+ games in a year, at 25+ minutes a game this who Weber is. We evaluate players on the rare plays they make and not on the consistent plays they make and do well.

Weber is a puck carrying, puck moving defensemen from this example.

Noone is confusing Weber with Karlsson, but that is a very typical Weber play. The point is, he isn't Hal Gill with a slapshot like some here like to paint him as to justify their anger over the Subban trade.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

No one ever said Weber was a puck moving blue liner. Ever.

Just like some will say no one ever said Weber was a bad defensemen... which I have read and I usually take those comments with a bit of underlying resentment towards MB for trading PK. I have read from a few posters that Weber is a good puck moving defensemen because his first pass is high percentage... Without taking into account that more often then not his first pass is to his open defensive partner.

This isn't a slight on Weber, the Habs wanted players who played conservative and they got that in the Weber trade. However it would be rather disingenuous for anyone to think the Habs will have a good transition game next year if Weber is paired with Alzner. Both these guys look for the easy, high percentage pass, which I believe will lead to a lot of dump and chase if this pair is together.

Would love them to prove me wrong, but I just don't see it.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Just like some will say no one ever said Weber was a bad defensemen... which I have read and I usually take those comments with a bit of underlying resentment towards MB for trading PK. I have read from a few posters that Weber is a good puck moving defensemen because his first pass is high percentage... Without taking into account that more often then not his first pass is to his open defensive partner.

This isn't a slight on Weber, the Habs wanted players who played conservative and they got that in the Weber trade. However it would be rather disingenuous for anyone to think the Habs will have a good transition game next year if Weber is paired with Alzner. Both these guys look for the easy, high percentage pass, which I believe will lead to a lot of dump and chase if this pair is together.

Would love them to prove me wrong, but I just don't see it.

Yep. Looking at that blueline, it ain't good. It's bad enough that we suck up the middle but we don't even have much in the way of puck moving abilities on the back end anymore. Karl Alzner only makes things worse from that perspective.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

Noone is confusing Weber with Karlsson, but that is a very typical Weber play. The point is, he isn't Hal Gill with a slapshot like some here like to paint him as to justify their anger over the Subban trade.

More typical Weber plays

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

More typical Weber plays

So somehow making high percentage plays are a bad thing #HFboardslogic

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

So somehow making high percentage plays are a bad thing #HFboardslogic

This is the exact reason I would have loved for MB to find a quality #2 PMD to pair with Weber. I have no problem with Weber's game. I have no problem with Alzner's game. They both add value individually to the blueline.

However, if they are paired together, they will effectively strangled what little transition to the forwards. Without a player who is capable of seeing the ice, taking calculated risks, we will see a lot of dump and chase. And we both know the Habs forwards are not the type of forwards that will want to chase a puck for 82+ games.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

So somehow making high percentage plays are a bad thing #HFboardslogic

By high percentage play you mean dishing it off to his defense partner to transition it out?

Weber is what he is. And he's not really all that great at transitional play. So pairing him with Alzner isn't really a great idea from that standpoint. And adding Alzner wasn't really ideal from that standpoint either.

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

I imagine Alzner pairing with Petry myself, but if CJ thinks Weber and Alzner can work, I'm sure it can.

Though I envision Alzner-Petry as our big minute eating pairing, and then have Weber play with Jerabek as the latter gets his feet wet in the NHL.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I imagine Alzner pairing with Petry myself, but if CJ thinks Weber and Alzner can work, I'm sure it can.

Though I envision Alzner-Petry as our big minute eating pairing, and then have Weber play with Jerabek as the latter gets his feet wet in the NHL.

So who are we pairing Weber with? Jerabek from the beginning?

 

[DramaticGloveSave]

So who are we pairing Weber with? Jerabek from the beginning?

If Jerabek earns it, I say yes. Though I still believe Markov will be back.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

If Jerabek earns it, I say yes. Though I still believe Markov will be back.

We'll see on Markov. Jerabek is total wildcard.

I'm glad we have CJ instead of MT. At the very least he seems to have a system down and so from that standpoint I don't think the transition will be a disaster. But we sure as hell didn't help ourselves on that front with the Alzner signing.

 

[Price is Wright]

So who are we pairing Weber with? Jerabek from the beginning?

Likely Alzner, but I could see them going with Schlemko. Sharks fans were positive about him, could see Julien trying him with increased minutes.

 

[Hoople]

Just like some will say no one ever said Weber was a bad defensemen... which I have read and I usually take those comments with a bit of underlying resentment towards MB for trading PK. I have read from a few posters that Weber is a good puck moving defensemen because his first pass is high percentage... Without taking into account that more often then not his first pass is to his open defensive partner.

This isn't a slight on Weber, the Habs wanted players who played conservative and they got that in the Weber trade. However it would be rather disingenuous for anyone to think the Habs will have a good transition game next year if Weber is paired with Alzner. Both these guys look for the easy, high percentage pass, which I believe will lead to a lot of dump and chase if this pair is together.



Would love them to prove me wrong, but I just don't see it.

But........

PK Subban was one of the best dump and chasers. As was Markov. Both PMD.

And here comes the part where you and a few others will say that it was the system under Therrien. And then I'll gladly remind you that we have Julien as our coach and you really don't have any idea how our D will perform with HIS system.

But........

If you pound the negativity often enough, you will have an opportunity to be right. Perfection doesn't exist and there will be mistakes made.

 

[Hoople]

This is the exact reason I would have loved for MB to find a quality #2 PMD to pair with Weber. I have no problem with Weber's game. I have no problem with Alzner's game. They both add value individually to the blueline.

However, if they are paired together, they will effectively strangled what little transition to the forwards. Without a player who is capable of seeing the ice, taking calculated risks, we will see a lot of dump and chase. And we both know the Habs forwards are not the type of forwards that will want to chase a puck for 82+ games.

On the other side of the equation, the Habs have two scoring forwards who aren't the best at D. Chucky and Drouin. Maybe Bergevin is trying to insulate them with more traditional defense first DMen.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

But........

PK Subban was one of the best dump and chasers. As was Markov. Both PMD.

And here comes the part where you and a few others will say that it was the system under Therrien. And then I'll gladly remind you that we have Julien as our coach and you really don't have any idea how our D will perform with HIS system.

But........

If you pound the negativity often enough, you will have an opportunity to be right. Perfection doesn't exist and there will be mistakes made.

All players will dump and chase. That's life of hockey in an era where the trap still exists.

I don't understand your comment. Are you happy with the D the Habs have put together today? The Habs currently don't have a #2 D and it is unclear how this is not more of a problem for some Habs fans as it is for me. I do not want Weber to be tied down by an inferior partner, so that by the end of the season he is out of gas.

 

[CrAzYNiNe]

On the other side of the equation, the Habs have two scoring forwards who aren't the best at D. Chucky and Drouin. Maybe Bergevin is trying to insulate them with more traditional defense first DMen.

That's a good point. Not sure how it works in principal though, especially if both those players are trying to dig pucks out of the corner shift after shift because the transition game is terrible.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Likely Alzner, but I could see them going with Schlemko. Sharks fans were positive about him, could see Julien trying him with increased minutes.

None of these are good options.

That's a good point. Not sure how it works in principal though, especially if both those players are trying to dig pucks out of the corner shift after shift because the transition game is terrible.

Yep, guys who can't transition all that well is exactly what you want for forwards with defensive shortcomings. What could be better for them than spending more time in their own zone?

 

[Price is Wright]

None of these are good options.

Agreed.

The left side will be a disaster but Price will win enough 2-1 games for everyone to disregard it.

Still can't believe people thought Emelin was playing well last year. I thought I was in Bizarro World.