Player Discussion Alzner

[OldCraig71]

Well you’re entitled to your opinion no matter how wrong it is. You’re seeing the situation for what it is NOW, not what it was in 2017.

The top 30 unrestricted free agents of 2017

My very first post on July first in response to the signing was "yuck" ( I believe I am the second post)and I have read through the thread and I saw what yours was.

 

[Price is Wright]

I did not mean to create any hostility in my questioning of teams that made offers to Alzner but I also am not willing to believe a declining player especially one hoping to create a bidding war on a free agent contract when he says he didn't even visit with other teams. What in demand UFA does that? Karl got his only serious offer from Bergevin and he took it, he was damaged goods coming from Washington and if you disagree with me at least you can admit based on watching him that I am right.

I know I left but Peanut has just liked a dozen posts about Alzner I made so I think I should make one appearance.

Alzner was sought after. He only went to Montreal because Montreal made such a great offer for him. He also had what he thought was guaranteed top four minutes and thought they would be a contender. Most of the other teams making him offers were outside the playoffs at the time but Montreal had what he thought was the best situation. New Jersey, Chicago, and Winnipeg all were very interested in him.



Report: Jets, Canadiens showing strong interest in Alzner

People often think that their GM has to be the only dumb GM in hockey. They forget that every dumb free agency signing, with exception to maybe Jeff Finger, that team had to outbid other teams to get them. Toronto got Clarkson when Edmonton offered more. Edmonton got Lucic when Montreal offered more. And Montreal got Alzner when Chicago and Winnipeg were also interested.

But that doesn't excuse Bergevin for having the worst pro scout in the league watch Alzner and completely ignore how broken down he was the year before and think he would just heal up and be a top four contributor. Fact is, John Carlson proved this past season he had a huge anchor named Karl for years that likely cost him Norris nominations. Much like how Komisarek probably cost Markov a Norris nomination years back by having to be carried. And the truth is, Washington might not get to the Cup if Alzner is still siphoning offence every shift.

Anyway, back to ignoring this Mike Milbury of a team.

 

[Sterling Archer]

My very first post on July first in response to the signing was "yuck" ( I believe I am the second post)and I have read through the thread and I saw what yours was.

Good for you. That wasn’t the consensus at the time and it’s not what we’re discussing.

 

[LaP]

Good for you. That wasn’t the consensus at the time and it’s not what we’re discussing.

There was many guys (me included) disgusted by this signing right after it was announced. I called no later than at the beginning of july 2017 that our defense would be terrible.

With Weber injured it's probably the worst defense wearing this jersey i have ever seen. Prime Odelein was genuinely better than any of our dmen not called Weber.

 

[HBDay]

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/mtl-karl-alzner-5-years-4-625m-aav.2365563/

Reading over the damn thread, I didn't think anyone was swooning over him, mind you I only read the first two pages. Every one seemed pretty aware of what was happening, lot's of "ok what does he bring" "why do we need him" etc. Nobody going YESSSS!!!

 

[Bryson]

(lol)

Yikes.

Wow savage level is over 9000!!

I always knew that DramaticGloveSave guy was rotten. He kept hyping up Drouin and Alzner while throwing Galcheyuk under the bus, even going so far as to go on to Arizona's board to bash Galchenyuk after the trade. Can't make this stuff up folks.

 

[OldCraig71]

I know I left but Peanut has just liked a dozen posts about Alzner I made so I think I should make one appearance.

Alzner was sought after. He only went to Montreal because Montreal made such a great offer for him. He also had what he thought was guaranteed top four minutes and thought they would be a contender. Most of the other teams making him offers were outside the playoffs at the time but Montreal had what he thought was the best situation. New Jersey, Chicago, and Winnipeg all were very interested in him.



Report: Jets, Canadiens showing strong interest in Alzner

People often think that their GM has to be the only dumb GM in hockey. They forget that every dumb free agency signing, with exception to maybe Jeff Finger, that team had to outbid other teams to get them. Toronto got Clarkson when Edmonton offered more. Edmonton got Lucic when Montreal offered more. And Montreal got Alzner when Chicago and Winnipeg were also interested.

But that doesn't excuse Bergevin for having the worst pro scout in the league watch Alzner and completely ignore how broken down he was the year before and think he would just heal up and be a top four contributor. Fact is, John Carlson proved this past season he had a huge anchor named Karl for years that likely cost him Norris nominations. Much like how Komisarek probably cost Markov a Norris nomination years back by having to be carried. And the truth is, Washington might not get to the Cup if Alzner is still siphoning offence every shift.

Anyway, back to ignoring this Mike Milbury of a team.

I still want to think that we were his only serious offer, especially if there were options in the states but I am ready to move on from this. We ended up with Alzner and his modified no trade clause last July and fast forward a year later and we saw what most of us believed we would see from him and our GM said that he might have been tired like Chara was. Great times to be a habs fan.

 

[Bryson]

I know I left but Peanut has just liked a dozen posts about Alzner I made so I think I should make one appearance.

Alzner was sought after. He only went to Montreal because Montreal made such a great offer for him. He also had what he thought was guaranteed top four minutes and thought they would be a contender. Most of the other teams making him offers were outside the playoffs at the time but Montreal had what he thought was the best situation. New Jersey, Chicago, and Winnipeg all were very interested in him.



Report: Jets, Canadiens showing strong interest in Alzner

People often think that their GM has to be the only dumb GM in hockey. They forget that every dumb free agency signing, with exception to maybe Jeff Finger, that team had to outbid other teams to get them. Toronto got Clarkson when Edmonton offered more. Edmonton got Lucic when Montreal offered more. And Montreal got Alzner when Chicago and Winnipeg were also interested.

But that doesn't excuse Bergevin for having the worst pro scout in the league watch Alzner and completely ignore how broken down he was the year before and think he would just heal up and be a top four contributor. Fact is, John Carlson proved this past season he had a huge anchor named Karl for years that likely cost him Norris nominations. Much like how Komisarek probably cost Markov a Norris nomination years back by having to be carried. And the truth is, Washington might not get to the Cup if Alzner is still siphoning offence every shift.

Anyway, back to ignoring this Mike Milbury of a team.

Your post doesn't really prove anything though. All it proves is that Bergevin thought Lucic and Alzner were more SOLID than other teams thought of them. MTL landed Alzner because they offered him a better deal. That says NOTHING of what other teams were offering him and what kind of interest they had. Where they looking to offer him 1-2 year deal? 2-3 million? Were other teams looking to add Alzner to their top 4 or add him as a depth player?

All your post shows is that other teams were kicking the tires, not that they were serious about signing him. There probably wasn't much discussion with other teams since the Habs were so motivated to acquire him and opened the bank offering him a deal he couldn't refuse from the start. Were other teams looking to open the bank for him? I doubt it. I mean the guy was making 2.8M with Washington. That was his worth and Bergevin just nearly doubled his salary after admitting that he couldn't open a jar of pickles without help from his wife,

 

[Perrah]

I said it then, Markov at 2 years 12 mill was a much better deal than this f***ing guy for 5 years. How many guys have you seen a coach lean to his associate coach and go “ Its him again”. I literally have never seen it. I mean it probably happened before but I like to see if anyone has examples off the top of their head.

 

[Price is Wright]

Your post doesn't really prove anything though. All it proves is that Bergevin thought Lucic and Alzner were more SOLID than other teams thought of them. MTL landed Alzner because they offered him a better deal. That says NOTHING of what other teams were offering him and what kind of interest they had. Where they looking to offer him 1-2 year deal? 2-3 million? Were other teams looking to add Alzner to their top 4 or add him as a depth player?

All your post shows is that other teams were kicking the tires, not that they were serious about signing him. There probably wasn't much discussion with other teams since the Habs were so motivated to acquire him and opened the bank offering him a deal he couldn't refuse from the start. Were other teams looking to open the bank for him? I doubt it. I mean the guy was making 2.8M with Washington. That was his worth and Bergevin just nearly doubled his salary after admitting that he couldn't open a jar of pickles without help from his wife,

"Just when I thought I was out...they PULL me back in."
- Michael Corleone

If you want to deny reality I can't help you. I was following free agency pretty closely. Several teams wanted Alzner. I was fearing Montreal would sign him. I did my homework. We weren't the only team interested. You can believe that Pierre LeBrun had information that Winnipeg was just as interested but somehow their offer was terrible compared to Montreal's all you want. I can't stop you.

You see, the team did this before. It was some guy named Jeff Petry, who everyone was certain was going to free agency and likely to Detroit so no point trading for him. It's why the Habs got him on a pretty good trade deadline price. But when in Montreal, the team sold him so well that he re-signed. With Alzner, the visit he had in Montreal was enough for him to cancel meetings with other teams because he felt it was the perfect fit. Brendan Shanahan met with the Habs, was going to come sign, had a flight issue, decided to take a meeting in New York and signed with the Rangers. Steven Stamkos had a bunch of meetings with teams, including Montreal, had his meeting with Toronto, got shook by how big of a meeting it was, and decided to cancel all other meetings and re-sign with Tampa. That doesn't mean the other teams had bad offers.

The talk around the league at free agency was that Karl Alzner was the second best defenceman on the market that summer behind Shattenkirk. Hockey News had him as the #3 Free Agent on their Top 30 list:

This is Alzner’s set-for-life window. He’s a big, rugged, experienced defenseman in his prime who can play top-pair minutes. As the best shutdown guy in a weak year for UFA blueliners, he’s a prime candidate to be overpaid. It won’t be his fault. The market will create a bidding war, driving up his price.

When Montreal signed him, it was 90% positive on Sportsnet and TSN about how he was an upgrade on Emelin and proved he could be a top pairing defenceman due to his days with Carlson. It was really folks like myself and others who were on here bashing the signing from day one, which is why those threads are so funny to read.

Maybe Alzner is the last time a GM takes a big chance on a defence only player... oh wait, Erik Gudbranson got three years at $4M from Vancouver. Nope, dumb GMs exist everywhere, and they will always make mistakes. Eventually the five years that Moore got in Boston and three years Oleksiak got in Pittsburgh will be looked at as dumb, but at least those were at half the price.

Alzner is Montreal's problem, but if their pitch wasn't as strong, he would have become someone else's problem, at pretty much the same contract. Marc Bergevin not being the only idiot doesn't diminish the fact he's an idiot here.

 

[Laurentide]

I did not mean to create any hostility in my questioning of teams that made offers to Alzner but I also am not willing to believe a declining player especially one hoping to create a bidding war on a free agent contract when he says he didn't even visit with other teams. What in demand UFA does that? Karl got his only serious offer from Bergevin and he took it, he was damaged goods coming from Washington and if you disagree with me at least you can admit based on watching him that I am right.

Well, Tavares refused to take Bergevin's call. He didn't even want to know what the offer was.

Besides, you can't fault Alzner. When Bergevin calls, you don't ask for someone else.

 

[Habs4Life]

thing i dont get could have used some of the money to go towards radulov instead they spend it on this bum

 

[Bryson]

"Just when I thought I was out...they PULL me back in."
- Michael Corleone

Honestly you should keep posting on the boards. You're a good contributor even if we don't always agree. Anybody who saw that Alzner was not SOLID is ok in my books. Nobody here actually likes the Canadiens yet we still post here everyday.

ou see, the team did this before. It was some guy named Jeff Petry, who everyone was certain was going to free agency and likely to Detroit so no point trading for him. It's why the Habs got him on a pretty good trade deadline price. But when in Montreal, the team sold him so well that he re-signed.

But Jeff Petry is a different case. At the time he re-signed the Canadiens actually HAD a good team. They had played 12 playoff games that year losing to Tampa Bay in 6 who went on to lose in the SC finals against Chicago in 6. Bergevin also had help as Petry admitted that Subban and Price reaching out to him made a huge difference in his decision to sign here.

I am sure Petry was not counting on Subban, the Norris defenseman who convinced him to sign here, to be traded. Just like I am not sure how Alzner thought his chances of winning the cup were greater with MTL but I am sure he was not betting on Radulov being let go.

But when in Montreal, the team sold him so well that he re-signed. With Alzner, the visit he had in Montreal was enough for him to cancel meetings with other teams because he felt it was the perfect fit. Brendan Shanahan met with the Habs, was going to come sign, had a flight issue, decided to take a meeting in New York and signed with the Rangers. Steven Stamkos had a bunch of meetings with teams, including Montreal, had his meeting with Toronto, got shook by how big of a meeting it was, and decided to cancel all other meetings and re-sign with Tampa. That doesn't mean the other teams had bad offers.

The talk around the league at free agency was that Karl Alzner was the second best defenceman on the market that summer behind Shattenkirk. Hockey News had him as the #3 Free Agent on their Top 30 list:

When Montreal signed him, it was 90% positive on Sportsnet and TSN about how he was an upgrade on Emelin and proved he could be a top pairing defenceman due to his days with Carlson. It was really folks like myself and others who were on here bashing the signing from day one, which is why those threads are so funny to read.

Maybe Alzner is the last time a GM takes a big chance on a defence only player... oh wait, Erik Gudbranson got three years at $4M from Vancouver. Nope, dumb GMs exist everywhere, and they will always make mistakes. Eventually the five years that Moore got in Boston and three years Oleksiak got in Pittsburgh will be looked at as dumb, but at least those were at half the price.

Alzner is Montreal's problem, but if their pitch wasn't as strong, he would have become someone else's problem, at pretty much the same contract. Marc Bergevin not being the only idiot doesn't diminish the fact he's an idiot here.

I am just annoyed that we keep hearing Bergevin going in hard and overpaying for Lucic and Alzner yet being a cheapskate when it comes to Radulov and Markov.

I agree that dumb GMs exist everywhere but we should not strive to be one of them. Moore contract is a little long but just like Oleksiak both are getting paid a little over 2 million. Alzner got both TERM and MONEY. Especially when we had the option and cap space to sign Markov who was better than Alzner and burning a year of rookie Victor Mete's ELC and potentially ruining his development.

 

[417]

That first sentence is probably not how you want to start your path to redemption

 

[cphabs]

There was many guys (me included) disgusted by this signing right after it was announced. I called no later than at the beginning of july 2017 that our defense would be terrible.

With Weber injured it's probably the worst defense wearing this jersey i have ever seen. Prime Odelein was genuinely better than any of our dmen not called Weber.

Lmao Odelein was a fantastic D! I remember a game where the opposing team was pressing the defensive zone and hacking up Roy. Odelien chopped the puck at a fowards face and was ejected. On his way off the ice he could not stop laughing but was trying to hide it.

 

[Le Barron de HF]

That first sentence is probably not how you want to start your path to redemption

Lol wtf kind of quote is that.

 

[417]

Lol wtf kind of quote is that.

Maybe hes referring to the guy who signed him lol

 

[Frenchy]

closed , we are over a 1000 comments , please use the new thread :

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/karl-alzner-he-left-and-they-won.2531973/