Speculation: Almost a year later

[Reddwit]

That's why he doesn't work with Seider. Same reason a guy like AA is anathema to good hockey. Seider works when he's got a D partner that will defer the offensive control stuff and pinching to him and handle the D end. Chiarot also wants to control the offensive stuff and not defer. So he's either forcing Seider to make a decision as to whether he jumps up or not or forcing Seider to defer by how he's playing so as to not abandon the defensive zone.

The Wings need Chiarot to have a defensively inclined partner who doesn't mind deferring and they need Seider to have the same.

Chiarot in Montreal was usually paired with Edmundson, right? He was that type of D that Chiarot gels with. Or if he played with Weber, Weber was so freakin set money wise and legacy wise by then that he would just fill whatever role.

Chiarot is not smart enough, fast enough, or skilled enough to be the D partner that handles transition. He shouldn’t be the D that gets deferred to - he’s simply not good enough to be anything other than the stay at home D.

 

[norrisnick]

You know how everyone wants to spend on some jam in the bottom six? 4th line banger Ben Chiarot to the rescue.

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

You know how everyone wants to spend on some jam in the bottom six? 4th line banger Ben Chiarot to the rescue.

Hey why don’t you just put him in net.

 

[norrisnick]

Hey why don’t you just put him in net.

Not really a bad idea... He's wider...

 

[SoupNazi]

You know how everyone wants to spend on some jam in the bottom six? 4th line banger Ben Chiarot to the rescue.

I had this idea months ago. Think they ought to give it a try. He plays like a forward most of the time anyway.

 

[Gyldenlove]

I still think Copp was an overpay for a 3rd liner. Chiarot was bad last year, hopefully we will not be playing regular minutes he coming year.

 

[WingsToPick4th]

Simple solution for Chiarot
Sign Radko Gudas and put them both on the 3rd pairing
Let seider Carry pairing 1
Sign a defensive D man (Mayfield) for Edvinsson to carry pairing 2
Bash brothers pairing 3

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Mayfield
Chiarot - Gudas (terrifying)

 

[Spitfire11]

You know how everyone wants to spend on some jam in the bottom six? 4th line banger Ben Chiarot to the rescue.

Excellent idea to solve 2 problems

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Simple solution for Chiarot
Sign Radko Gudas and put them both on the 3rd pairing
Let seider Carry pairing 1
Sign a defensive D man (Mayfield) for Edvinsson to carry pairing 2
Bash brothers pairing 3

Walman - Seider
Edvinsson - Mayfield
Chiarot - Gudas (terrifying)

Yeah, nobody is going to be terrified of that bottom pairing. Except maybe Wings fans

 

[heyfolks]

I hate the deals but in no way are they comparable to Nielsen and Abby.

Abedelkader was a homegrown pick that overachieved playing with a guy that would make a peewee hockey player look good and Holland believed his own bullshit too much to see it.

Nielsen was a panic sign when Holland realized he wasn't going to get Stamkos to bail him out for not preparing for Datsyuk leaving. The closest analogy to this would have been Holland panic signing Ian White when he struck out on Suter after not having a post Lids plan.

I am not debating the WHY, just the result. Both contracts signed by Yzerman are too much for too long.

If you think Copp is the new Abby, you must've blocked out just how bad that Abdelkader deal was.

In a universe where Yzerman doesn't buy him out, Abby would still be on the team this last season making only $1.5 mill less than Copp. That's a guy who could not find a job in the NHL since 2020 and shouldn't have even been in the league that year.

Copp is a center who took the most faceoffs for the team by a country mile other than Larkin, put up about what's expected in points, was the top PK forward, can play on the PP, and provides solid defensive play.

Abby was a pretty one-dimensional winger whose success was largely dependent on his linemates. That contract was bad before the ink dried.

I am quite certain I have blocked out just how bad Abby was but that doesn't mean Copp is a solid signing. This isn't a comparative essay. If it were, as you outline, Copp wins. It is just a bad contract.

 

[heyfolks]

Lol, Chiarot has nothing to do with Hronek. Jesus.

Jesus? I have questions. hahaha far bigger than over paying for Chiarot and letting go a better, younger, home grown d'man. If you say they have no connection, as a mere mortal I won't argue the salary cap, dollars to Chiarot, dollars required for Mo, etc.

No… Hronek wanting 7M+ as a one way D who could return a 1st and 2nd in the draft sealed his way out of town.

I accept that logic, but that still doesn't lay aside the fact Chiarot was a poor signing (based on pay, term and performnce in year 1)

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I am not debating the WHY, just the result. Both contracts signed by Yzerman are too much for too long.



I am quite certain I have blocked out just how bad Abby was but that doesn't mean Copp is a solid signing. This isn't a comparative essay. If it were, as you outline, Copp wins. It is just a bad contract.

You literally called Copp the new Abby in your post. That wasn't my comparison.

 

[SirloinUB]

Just a refresher, we needed to spend to hit the cap floor.

If it wasn’t Copp chairot and Perron it would have been Kadri, Palat and De Haan/Goligoski

 

[odin1981]

I would swap Chiarot but Copp once he was healthy produced and played as advertised.

 

[heyfolks]

You literally called Copp the new Abby in your post. That wasn't my comparison.

I also said Chiarot was the new Frans Nielson. I was speaking in terms of contract (clearly, they don't even play the same position).


They have a redo of the draft after 5 years. After 1 year, do I think the Wings should have signed either one of them? Nope. I don't see them as big ads moving forward and all they did this past season was move the wings down, but not out, of the lottery.

Justin Abdelkader Stats and News | NHL.com

Justin Abdelkader Stats and News

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Andrew Copp Stats And News

Get all the latest stats, news, videos, and more on Andrew Copp.

www.nhl.com

 

[Axel Sandy Pelikan]

Jesus? I have questions. hahaha far bigger than over paying for Chiarot and letting go a better, younger, home grown d'man. If you say they have no connection, as a mere mortal I won't argue the salary cap, dollars to Chiarot, dollars required for Mo, etc.


I accept that logic, but that still doesn't lay aside the fact Chiarot was a poor signing (based on pay, term and performnce in year 1)

Right. They’re just too separate things. Hronek was a good, not great player and was gonna get paid like a great player and the Wings could add two quality picks for a guy who may have ended up redundant in a year or two with Wallinder or Edvinsson hitting.

Chiarot has been a disappointment and I’m not thrilled with the contract either, but Chiarot’s signing had absolutely zero to do with Hronek being traded.

And a $4.5M top 4 D isn’t going to prevent you from signing Moritz Seider to an extension. You may hate the value for the player… but you’re gonna pay that much for a guy of that ilk and the budget isn’t blown on him or Copp.

 

[Gniwder]

Just a refresher, we needed to spend to hit the cap floor.

If it wasn’t Copp chairot and Perron it would have been Kadri, Palat and De Haan/Goligoski

Could always just pick up a cap dump. The team is in the same situation again this offseason, I'd rather see Stevie trade for someone like Myers or Martinez than go fishing for more Chiarot or Copp.

The big reason why I say that is because free agency looks better next offseason, and I don't see the Wings making the playoffs anyways. Not saying the team should tank though.

 

[SirloinUB]

Could always just pick up a cap dump. The team is in the same situation again this offseason, I'd rather see Stevie trade for someone like Myers or Martinez than go fishing for more Chiarot or Copp.

The big reason why I say that is because free agency looks better next offseason, and I don't see the Wings making the playoffs anyways. Not saying the team should tank though.

Ahh, the Arizona Coyotes school of team building.

 

[Henkka]

Just a refresher, we needed to spend to hit the cap floor.

If it wasn’t Copp chairot and Perron it would have been Kadri, Palat and De Haan/Goligoski

We don't need to spend anything to reach the floor. Just promoting ELCs up we are at 59M. And there's 6M of peeformance bonuses, which goes way over the cap floor.

So we don't need to spend to reach the floor.

But Yzerman WILL SPEND to improve the team. He will spend every summer until we become a winner.

 

[Dotter]

They aren't winning a cup with them. They're also not winning a cup without them. These signings are insignificant in the grand scheme of things. I suspect their true value is leadership to help develop the young players.

Trust the Yzerman plan.

 

[TheOctopusKid]

Four Years of Yzerman:

- Focuses on drafting young, exciting talent with accumulated draft capital
- Patiently lets talent develop in SHL, AHL, ECHL, etc.
- Brings talent on to team that is ready to be significant contributor in the role in which they were drafted for otherwise positions them in another league for them to develop
- Supports young players with middle of the road veterans so they don't get eaten alive and destroyed
- Trades away veterans for more draft capital when they are either at the end of their contract, want to resign for more than assessed role/age/skill (
- Repeats process, building larger core of talent

I don't know what is frustrating or confusing about this process in the least and why we need to constantly re-litigate it every offseason. Copp and Chariot have been perfectly fine.

In no way do their contracts hurt us in any conceivable way.

No, they do not suck but they aren't going to be in their roles when we are competing and our contending window is open so it doesn't really matter.

We do not have viable prospects who are better than them to take their spots on the team.

They are there to serve a role, provide some veteran leadership and support to a team of young players and prospects while they find their footing, and will be sent off for picks and prospects when the time is right or not resigned.

This is exactly the same as: Leddy, Ryan, Namesnikov, Ganger, Biega, Filppula, Nemeth, Staal, Stecher, Merrill, etc. etc. As it will be with Perron, etc.

Sometimes the guy sticks around for a little while longer (Mattaa, Erne) or they recover some of their discounted value and breakout a bit (Fabbri, Walman) or they are inbetween (Suter, Kubalik).

To continue to belabor this point that "Copp and Chiarot are terrible and their contracts are horrible" etc. etc. is just insanity. Neither have been terrible, I'd argue Copp has been as good as advertised and still has room to improve above the 2022 price market contemporaries (Trochek, Strome, Kadri, etc.) and Chiarot, despite everyone hating him is still very tradable. Why? He plays both sides, is a veteran D, at a perfectly fine contract, his stats and point totals are in line, and literally 14 months ago was traded for a 1st, 4th, and a prospect in a highly contentious bidding war for him the TDL, after making a serious run as a Top Pair with Petry to the Cup finals with MTL, and playing fine for FLA in a Top 4 role in their early flame out.

In their prime Defenseman with playoff experience who can contribute offensively (despite making repeated boneheaded mistakes) always have value. The reason we haven't moved him is because we need him right now because our D core looks pretty bleak without him, just like it did after we moved Leddy despite everyone hating him to. Also a guy you'd think had zero value with how much hate he got at the end, who had less points than Chiarot and still netted us 2nd, Walman (who we all love), and Sunny. Edit: A comparable to this? McCabe and Lafferty being moved to TOR, for multiple picks including a 1st, McCabe being the centerpiece and comparable to Chiarot at north of 4M (2M retained by CHI) for two more years, and being a veteran 33 year old D, who plays both side, yadda yadda.


We could move both Copp and Chiarot tomorrow and end up with picks and prospects.

These are not bad players and they are not bad contracts and both of them are playing important roles for the growth of our team, roles we've seen multiple players hold for the last
four years while our core grows into their own.