All-Time National Teams

[Corto]

Stuart Pearce?

Nah. Cole was a world class LB, possibly the best in his day, and winning titles left and right, domestically and in Europe.

Pearce was a good LB, very good even... But even in his best days in Forest, I don't think he was exactly world class.
And certainly doesn't have the trophies and accolades that Cole has.

 

[Eisen]

Nah. Cole was a world class LB, possibly the best in his day, and winning titles left and right, domestically and in Europe.

Pearce was a good LB, very good even... But even in his best days in Forest, I don't think he was exactly world class.
And certainly doesn't have the trophies and accolades that Cole has.

I feel like this is at least somewhat debateable. Cole has the playmaking advantage but Pearce, I feel, is better at defense.
To bring the trophies out in Cole's favor just shows that Cole played for a far more expensive teams, even adjusting for the times. Chelsea's aera was over for 30 years before the investor (and all his players, among them Cole) came in. Similar in Arsenal. When money came, success came after, Cole was part of that team. Pearce started playing for Nottingham after the golden aera, but that amount of cash in a team never came.

 

[Corto]

I feel like this is at least somewhat debateable. Cole has the playmaking advantage but Pearce, I feel is better at defense.
To bring the trophies out in Cole's favor just shows that Cole played for a far more expensive teams, even adjusting for the times. Chelsea's aera was over for 30 years before the investor (and all his players, among them Cole) came in. Similar in Arsenal. When money came, success came after, Cole was part of that team. Pearce started playing for Nottingham after the golden aera, but that amount of cash in a team never came.

I feel that club success has to come into play when taking about how good a player was.
National team success I don't put too much stock into, as some greats are simply born in countries that will never contend for a WC, and in the end, WC is a sprint, rather than a marathon - where being lucky or unlucky, having a ref make a call one way or the other, etc... Is much more likely to determine a team's fate than over the course of a season.

I realize spent his career on non-contending teams (apart from the Newcastle spell for those 2-3 years), but on the whole, I just think Cole was (much) better.

In the end, Cole was never a passenger in any of the teams he played in. He was a key player for both Arsenal and Chelsea, and for England as well.

For me, Cole was a complete package, superb defensively and very good offensively.

 

[Eisen]

I feel that club success has to come into play when taking about how good a player was.
National team success I don't put too much stock into, as some greats are simply born in countries that will never contend for a WC, and in the end, WC is a sprint, rather than a marathon - where being lucky or unlucky, having a ref make a call one way or the other, etc... Is much more likely to determine a team's fate than over the course of a season.

I realize spent his career on non-contending teams (apart from the Newcastle spell for those 2-3 years), but on the whole, I just think Cole was (much) better.

In the end, Cole was never a passenger in any of the teams he played in. He was a key player for both Arsenal and Chelsea, and for England as well.

For me, Cole was a complete package, superb defensively and very good offensively.

Agreed that he never was a passenger (apart from the England team which were all passengers )
Club play gets tricky though. There are just some very good players that are stuck on mediocre to bad teams for some reasons. Andreas Köpke being the first that came to mind. Got relegated with Nuremburg right in his prime. Happened to Pearce, too (he was still very good).

 

[lud]

Only from the last 20-25 years:

Neuer
Kohler,Hummels,Boatheng
Lahm Schweinsteiger Brehme
Moeller Ballack
Klose Klinsmann
​

---------------------------------------------------------

Barthez
Thuram Varane Desailly Evra
Deschamps Vieira
Mbappe Zidane Ribery
Henry​

---------------------------------------------------------

Romero
Zanetti Ayala Mascherano Sorin
Simeone Redondo
Messi Riquelme Di Maria
Batistuta​

---------------------------------------------------------

Subašić
Srna Šimunić Lovren Jarni
Soldo
Modrić Prosinečki
Boban
Šuker Mandžukić​

 

[Eye of Ra]

Spain.

 

[Corto]

Only from the last 20-25 years:

Subašić
Srna Šimunić Lovren Jarni
Soldo
Modrić Prosinečki
Boban
Šuker Mandžukić​

Eh. Neither Simunic nor Lovren can hold a stick to prime Igor Tudor. Or Robert Kovac for that matter.
There's a reason why Simunic played for Hertha and a (then) mediocre Hoffenheim, while Tudor and Kovac played for Juve and Bayern.
Rakitic is much better than Prosinecki, and I'd easily rate Boksic over Mandukic as well.
Soldo's a good pick though.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Eh. Neither Simunic nor Lovren can hold a stick to prime Igor Tudor. Or Robert Kovac for that matter.
There's a reason why Simunic played for Hertha and a (then) mediocre Hoffenheim, while Tudor and Kovac played for Juve and Bayern.
Rakitic is much better than Prosinecki, and I'd easily rate Boksic over Mandukic as well.
Soldo's a good pick though.

Heck even Dado Prso is better than Mandsukic.

 

[Corto]

Spain.

I really like the Paco Gento. Amancio and Suarez picks.
Especially Gento gets overlooked when people talk about the great Real sides of the 50s/60s and most only concentrate on Di Stefano, Puskas, Kopa, etc. - when Gento, by all accounts, was absolutely vital to all that success they had as a team.

 

[Corto]

Heck even Dado Prso is better than Mandsukic.

Nah... Prso was a worker, topped out with a couple of good (great) seasons at Monaco, was a late bloomer etc. But a very limited footballer to be honest (and I loved him).
But Mandzukic, for all his limitations, is a big game player - and although his scoring has gone down over the last year year, moving to LW etc... He still comes up big in important games.

 

[cgf]

Only from the last 20-25 years:

Neuer
Kohler,Hummels,Boatheng
Lahm Schweinsteiger Brehme
Moeller Ballack
Klose Klinsmann​

Schweini couldn't ever cover the 6 on his own. In 2014 we had Lahm protecting him at the 6 most of the way, and then had Kramer or Khedira playing as actual 8s next to him to do the running the rest of the way...with Kroos dropping into a 6 role as well, to help them build, all tourney long. And even though Ballack was nominally an 8, he & Moller pushed up the pitch to become secondary goal threats a lot more than they dropped deep to help build.

I also just don't think Basti deserves a spot in that midfield over Toni or Effe if I'm being real. Basti wasn't as elegant as either one and if you wanna talk about toughness or physicality, then Effe just puts Schweini to shame. Plus Sammer's knee injury was only 20 years ago, so a pre-knee injury Sammer has to be in a german NT of the past 25 years

...and for my money, Mesut Ozil hit a higher level than Scholl, Moller, Haßler, etc. ever did...even if he wasn't the goal threat at club level that some of them were. So I'd go with one of:

Klinsi - Klose
Mesut
Brehme - Sammer - Effenberg* - Lahm
Hummels - Kohler - Boateng
Neuer
--------------------------
Klinsi/Klose
Mesut
Brehme - Ballack - Sammer - Lahm
Effenberg/Kroos
Hummels - Kohler - Boateng
Neuer
--------------------------
Klinsi - Klose
Brehme - Ballack - Sammer - Lahm
Effenberg/Kroos
Hummels - Kohler - Boateng
Neuer

*Ballack / Kroos​

I feel like that last shape probably doesn't have enough creativity to crack open parked buses with anything other than set pieces & long shots. And would primarily rely on the second shape instead...using the first formation for matches where we expect to see the lion's share of possession against a deep block.

PS I really love that Hummels - Kohler - Boateng back three. Kohler would've been the perfect foil to the proactive-defending Hummels & more skilled & mobile Boateng...and with Neuer sweeper keeping behind him that quartet would just devour all counters, while being able to play its way around any pressing.

 

[Billy Crawford]

Henry
Zidane - Platini - Kopa
Tigana - Vieira
Lizarazu - Tresor - Dessailly - Thuram
Barthez
Good balanced team, I guess you could use Blanc in Tresor’s spot, whatever.

I also tried to do Brazil:
Ronaldo
Ronaldinho - Pele - Garrincha
Falcao - Gerson
R. Carlos - Lucio - Aldair - Cafu
Gilmar
Attack is fire and it’s crazy to think guys like Zico, Socrates, Romario, Rivelino and a few ballon d’or winners are left out. Defense is kind of trash in comparison. I only used these 2 CB since they were the main ones on WC winners I am familiar with. I’m not sure they are better choices than that loser Thiago Silva who still managed to be considered the best CB in the world at some point. Maybe some guy from before 1980 is an undeniably better pick but I don’t know Brazilian players enough to tell.

Finally here is Hungary:
The lineup they used in 1950-54. lol

 

[Evilo]

Thiago Silva is a wonderful player.

Zico is a must start in every brazil team. Like Pele and Garrincha.

 

[lud]

Eh. Neither Simunic nor Lovren can hold a stick to prime Igor Tudor. Or Robert Kovac for that matter.
There's a reason why Simunic played for Hertha and a (then) mediocre Hoffenheim, while Tudor and Kovac played for Juve and Bayern.
Rakitic is much better than Prosinecki, and I'd easily rate Boksic over Mandukic as well.
Soldo's a good pick though.

Goalkeepers: Ladic vs Pletikosa vs Subašić. Easiest choice,even though Subašić is only little bit better overall.

Defence: Bilić vs Štimac vs Šimić vs Šimunić vs R.Kovač vs Tudor vs Ćorluka vs Vida vs Lovren. Lovren is easy my pick,currently he's one of top 10 defenders in the world. Ofc, he had some bad mistakes in Liverpool. But,still he played two biggest football finals in just 2 months. Not many defenders can say that.2nd spot is tough, but Joe Šimunić give his all best at national squad(much like Asanović), he was always reliable in national kits. Štimac - slow,Bilić,Tudor,Vida - tipical unsecure nervous players. One game excellent,next game their minds is on Jupiter. Šimić and Ćorluka - solid at best,nothing special. Šimić was 85% of time in Milan and Inter just substitute,like Tudor in Juve. R.Kovač is great defenders with a great fighting spirit. My first sub.

Defensive Midfielder: Soldo vs N.Kovač vs Vukojević vs Badelj vs Brozović. Brozović 16km vs England is mindblowing,but I pick Zvonimir Soldo. He could play defender,def. midf and box to box midfielder. He was tehnically best by far. Great passing and great leadership(captain in Sttutgart for many years).Others players are pretty much Gatusso's followers.

Box to box midfielders: Asanović vs Prosinečki vs Rakitić vs Modrić vs Kranjčar vs Rapaić vs Kovačić. Modrić is Croatian GOAT,so no surprise here. For 2nd place, I pick Robi,cause at his best he was by far and away better than Asanović and Rakitić. He was little bit slow,still could with one ball beat 4 defenders. Asanović, was monster in national squad. Probably best player if you look only Croatia games. On a club level,he wasn't impressive. Rakitić - Barcelona,Messi,Iniesta. Enough said. Prosinečki,but it's 3 way tie.

Atatcking midfielder: Boban. Boban and Modrić to switch position during the match.

Attack: Šuker, ofc for 1st striker. Bokšić vs Da Silva vs Pršo vs Klasnić vs Mandžukić vs Kalinić vs Jelavić. Hands down,Bokšić is tehnically best by faaar. But,Mandžo is big game player. Goal for Bayern in CL final,super goal for Juve in CL final, 2 goals for Juve in Madrid this year,2 goals for Dinamo in Amsterdam, goal vs Italy at Euro 2016,2 goals vs Cameron at WC 2014, winner goal in semi.final vs England and finally goal in WC FINAL!! And,sadly owngoal in wc final.

 

[Corto]

Defence: Bilić vs Štimac vs Šimić vs Šimunić vs R.Kovač vs Tudor vs Ćorluka vs Vida vs Lovren. Lovren is easy my pick,currently he's one of top 10 defenders in the world. Ofc, he had some bad mistakes in Liverpool. But,still he played two biggest football finals in just 2 months. Not many defenders can say that.2nd spot is tough, but Joe Šimunić give his all best at national squad(much like Asanović), he was always reliable in national kits. Štimac - slow,Bilić,Tudor,Vida - tipical unsecure nervous players. One game excellent,next game their minds is on Jupiter. Šimić and Ćorluka - solid at best,nothing special. Šimić was 85% of time in Milan and Inter just substitute,like Tudor in Juve.

Tudor played in the starting 11 consistently at Juve, be it at CB or DM.
He was Juventus' MVP (along with Trezeguet and Nedved) in 2000-01 for example, basically sacrificing his World Cup by playing through injury for Juve next season.
Noone since Croatian independence comes remotely close to peak Tudor in terms of defenders. Seriously, it really isn't close. He was the only shining light in the darkness that was 2000-2006 in between the bronze generation and before Modric and Co. started coming through.
His career was marred by injuries, but when he was healthy, he was in the starting 11 at Juve, both under Ancelotti and under Lippi. And I have no idea where this thing about him being "unsecure and nervous" comes from.
They only one in the same league is Kovac.

As for Simunic... He was a mediocre defender prone to horrible brain farts, repeatedly getting booked, red carded and giving away penalties.
Which was largely reflected in no big club ever being interested in him.

Box to box midfielders: Asanović vs Prosinečki vs Rakitić vs Modrić vs Kranjčar vs Rapaić vs Kovačić. Modrić is Croatian GOAT,so no surprise here. For 2nd place, I pick Robi,cause at his best he was by far and away better than Asanović and Rakitić. He was little bit slow,still could with one ball beat 4 defenders. Asanović, was monster in national squad. Probably best player if you look only Croatia games. On a club level,he wasn't impressive. Rakitić - Barcelona,Messi,Iniesta. Enough said. Prosinečki,but it's 3 way tie.

Prosinecki had talent... And it stops there.
At 21 he was voted the world's best young player, and he was great.
Like I mentioned earlier in the thread though, by 25 he was bombing out of every team, changing 5 teams in 5 years, finally settling in at Dinamo Zagreb at 28.
Meanwhile, Rakitic is spending his 5th season as a fixture in the starting 11 of one of the best club teams in football history (after captaining a EL-winning team in Sevilla).
Even at this best, Prosinecki wasn't better than Rakitic's best - but the bigger problem is we barely got to see Prosinecki's best. He would dribble past 4 players only for all of them to catch up to him, because he was a guy who didn't care one bit about his body as an athlete.
Again, it really isn't close.

 

[Moridin]

For Sweden I'd go..

Gunnar Nordahl - Ove Kindvall
Lennart 'Nacka' Skoglund - Bosse Larsson - Gunnar Gren - Kurt Hamrin
Stig Fredriksson - Patrik Andersson - Glenn Hysen - Roland Nilsson
Ronnie Hellström




Bench - Henrik Larsson, Nils Liedholm, Tomas Brolin, Glenn Strömberg, Peter Larsson, Karl Svensson,

 

[Gecklund]

For Sweden I'd go..

Gunnar Nordahl - Ove Kindvall
Lennart 'Nacka' Skoglund - Bosse Larsson - Gunnar Gren - Kurt Hamrin
Stig Fredriksson - Patrik Andersson - Glenn Hysen - Roland Nilsson
Ronnie Hellström




Bench - Henrik Larsson, Nils Liedholm, Tomas Brolin, Glenn Strömberg, Peter Larsson, Karl Svensson,

You’re missing a very big someone with a very big ego.

 

[cgf]

You’re missing a very big someone with a very big ego.

Guidetti doesn't crack sweden's all-time team

 

[MaxV]

Nearly all of Team Russia would probably be from the same generation.

 

[Bon Esprit]

For Sweden I'd go..

Gunnar Nordahl - Ove Kindvall
Lennart 'Nacka' Skoglund - Bosse Larsson - Gunnar Gren - Kurt Hamrin
Stig Fredriksson - Patrik Andersson - Glenn Hysen - Roland Nilsson
Ronnie Hellström




Bench - Henrik Larsson, Nils Liedholm, Tomas Brolin, Glenn Strömberg, Peter Larsson, Karl Svensson,

LOL Henrik Larsson on the bench. Someone is missing. Ibrasson or something, he's pretty good at football.

 

[Stray Wasp]

Nah. Cole was a world class LB, possibly the best in his day, and winning titles left and right, domestically and in Europe.

Pearce was a good LB, very good even... But even in his best days in Forest, I don't think he was exactly world class.
And certainly doesn't have the trophies and accolades that Cole has.

Much as I liked Stuart Pearce and disliked Ashley Cole I'd always rate the latter over the former. Pearce had power but not genuine pace, and although he was the better defender even on that score Cole's speed to recover arguably gives him an advantage.

 

[Chloraflora]

Much as I liked Stuart Pearce and disliked Ashley Cole I'd always rate the latter over the former. Pearce had power but not genuine pace, and although he was the better defender even on that score Cole's speed to recover arguably gives him an advantage.

Also my thoughts, I hated putting Cole in there but we’ve simply not had a better left sided defender.

I’d be interested in seeing your XI!

 

[Eye of Ra]

LOL Henrik Larsson on the bench. Someone is missing. Ibrasson or something, he's pretty good at football.

I see you have no idea who Gunnar Nordahl is. Google his name and learn history.

Kindvall was great too, dominant player for Feyenoord.

 

[Evilo]

Ibra has to start.
Gunnar Andersson is also an interesting name, but he never played for Sweden's senior NT I think.
Wonderful scorer, extremely efficient. He's still to this day the most prolific scorer in OM's history.

 

[Havre]

Yeah. Don´t see how Henke Larsson would ever get in to a all time Sweden 11. Ibrahimovic would though. Alongside Nordahl and probably Kindvall if you want to go 3 up front without thinking about how they would actually play together.