All-Time National Teams

Eye of Ra

Grandmaster General of the International boards
Nov 15, 2008
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Malmö, Sweden
Gunnar Andersson is also an interesting name, but he never played for Sweden's senior NT I think.
Wonderful scorer, extremely efficient. He's still to this day the most prolific scorer in OM's history.

Roger Magnusson and Anders Linderoth?
 

Savi

Registered User
Dec 3, 2006
9,276
1,862
Bruges, Belgium
All time Team Belgium should look something like this:

AR3hqJO.png


Not ready to commit to too many current players, out of respect to some of the guys who went to the 1980 EC final and 1986 WC semis. But if we do this again in 20 years then probably guys like Courtois, De Bruyne and Lukaku could be there.

I got Pfaff at GK but could easily have been Michel Preud'homme. Its really close between those two.
 

lud

Registered User
May 27, 2009
1,243
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Croatia
Taffarel
Cafu Lucio Tiago Silva R.Carlos Gilberto Silva Emerson
Ronaldinho Kaka Rivaldo
Ronaldo​
 

Corto

Faceless Man
Sep 28, 2005
15,991
942
Braavos
All time Team Belgium should look something like this:

AR3hqJO.png


Not ready to commit to too many current players, out of respect to some of the guys who went to the 1980 EC final and 1986 WC semis. But if we do this again in 20 years then probably guys like Courtois, De Bruyne and Lukaku could be there.

KDB would to be in there were it my choice.
Neither Coeck not Van der Elst were ever even remotely in the conversation for a top-3/top-5 midfielder like KDB is.
Outside of Modric and maybe Kroos, I'm not sure I'd take anyone over him.
 

lud

Registered User
May 27, 2009
1,243
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Croatia
Seaman
G.Neville Terry Ferdinand A.Cole
Beckham Scholes Lampard J.Cole Shearer Rooney​
 

lud

Registered User
May 27, 2009
1,243
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Buffon
Zambrotta Nesta Cannavaro Maldini
Gatusso
Pirlo Albertini
Totti
Vieri Del Piero​
 

Eye of Ra

Grandmaster General of the International boards
Nov 15, 2008
17,966
4,454
Malmö, Sweden
All time Team Belgium should look something like this:

AR3hqJO.png


Not ready to commit to too many current players, out of respect to some of the guys who went to the 1980 EC final and 1986 WC semis. But if we do this again in 20 years then probably guys like Courtois, De Bruyne and Lukaku could be there.

I got Pfaff at GK but could easily have been Michel Preud'homme. Its really close between those two.


i am suprised to see no Marc Wilmots.
 

Stray Wasp

Registered User
May 5, 2009
4,561
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South east London
Also my thoughts, I hated putting Cole in there but we’ve simply not had a better left sided defender.

I’d be interested in seeing your XI!

All time:

Banks
Armfield - Campbell - Moore - Wilson
Edwards - Gascoigne
Matthews - Charlton - Finney
Shearer

(I love the thought of that trio supporting Shearer. Depending on the needs of the game it could plausibly become Matthews - Finney - Charlton or Finney - Matthews - Charlton).

For my lifetime, it would be:

Shilton
Parker - Campbell - Ferdinand - Cole
Beckham - Gascoigne - Robson - Hodge
Shearer - Lineker

The midfield in the latter team points to two of the fundamental issues with England down the years - accommodating talent and operating with balance. By rights, it should be Waddle on one flank, Barnes on the other. Alas, Bobby Robson could never make that pairing tick when it mattered and I'm judging on international performance rather than club career. Likely Beckham and Hodge would combine with Gascoigne as well as Trevor Steven and Hodge helped Glenn Hoddle in 86, and Hodge could cover for Cole's forays. I'm dubious about Bryan Robson as the nearest thing to a holding midfielder, but apart from Paul Ince in 96-98 mode, the only alternatives are pretty grisly.

Gary Neville misses out at right back for hitting roughly 267,000 aimless high balls that ceded possession during his international career. Neville on one flank and Kenny Sansom on the other would be my full back choices for a 'Players Who Were Quietly Awful for England XI' (if you want to know why Neville failed as a manager, his international performances are a good starting point- the praise he receives as a pundit misses the degree of narrowness in him). There are those who maintain Paul Scholes' patchy England work is an indictment of England's failure to accommodate ballplayers. They are mixing Scholes up with Glenn Hoddle. Scholes' problem was that England didn't have a winger or wide forward as good as Ryan Giggs or Ronaldo- and without a quality, pacy player out wide to stretch play for him Scholes' limits came to the fore.

Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard? Neither, thanks. I'll have Gazza, who could dribble, pass and think the game better than either.
 

Savi

Registered User
Dec 3, 2006
9,276
1,862
Bruges, Belgium
KDB would to be in there were it my choice.
Neither Coeck not Van der Elst were ever even remotely in the conversation for a top-3/top-5 midfielder like KDB is.
Outside of Modric and maybe Kroos, I'm not sure I'd take anyone over him.

Yeah in due time KDB will make the all time team. Some of the older guys I have in there aren't as talented as the current generation of players but those are the guys that carried small Belgian clubs to European finals. That deserves some recognition. Van der Elst's also a hometown hero of mine :D I had to have him in there.
And I really wanted Coeck in there. Yeah he was injured a lot and he died WAY too young but that right there was one of the most talented midfielders Belgium ever produced.
 

Eisen

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Sep 30, 2009
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Duesseldorf
OK
Much as I liked Stuart Pearce and disliked Ashley Cole I'd always rate the latter over the former. Pearce had power but not genuine pace, and although he was the better defender even on that score Cole's speed to recover arguably gives him an advantage.
Ok, you are the second thinking Cole was better. Perhaps I remember Pearce wrong. It's been some time.
 

Eisen

Registered User
Sep 30, 2009
16,737
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Duesseldorf
All time Team Belgium should look something like this:

AR3hqJO.png


Not ready to commit to too many current players, out of respect to some of the guys who went to the 1980 EC final and 1986 WC semis. But if we do this again in 20 years then probably guys like Courtois, De Bruyne and Lukaku could be there.

I got Pfaff at GK but could easily have been Michel Preud'homme. Its really close between those two.
I llike that team. I have a soft spot for Pfaff. Saw him playing a lot when he was in Munich. Ceulemans, van der Elst. What's not to like?
 

Eisen

Registered User
Sep 30, 2009
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Duesseldorf
All time:

Banks
Armfield - Campbell - Moore - Wilson
Edwards - Gascoigne
Matthews - Charlton - Finney
Shearer

(I love the thought of that trio supporting Shearer. Depending on the needs of the game it could plausibly become Matthews - Finney - Charlton or Finney - Matthews - Charlton).

For my lifetime, it would be:

Shilton
Parker - Campbell - Ferdinand - Cole
Beckham - Gascoigne - Robson - Hodge
Shearer - Lineker

The midfield in the latter team points to two of the fundamental issues with England down the years - accommodating talent and operating with balance. By rights, it should be Waddle on one flank, Barnes on the other. Alas, Bobby Robson could never make that pairing tick when it mattered and I'm judging on international performance rather than club career. Likely Beckham and Hodge would combine with Gascoigne as well as Trevor Steven and Hodge helped Glenn Hoddle in 86, and Hodge could cover for Cole's forays. I'm dubious about Bryan Robson as the nearest thing to a holding midfielder, but apart from Paul Ince in 96-98 mode, the only alternatives are pretty grisly.

Gary Neville misses out at right back for hitting roughly 267,000 aimless high balls that ceded possession during his international career. Neville on one flank and Kenny Sansom on the other would be my full back choices for a 'Players Who Were Quietly Awful for England XI' (if you want to know why Neville failed as a manager, his international performances are a good starting point- the praise he receives as a pundit misses the degree of narrowness in him). There are those who maintain Paul Scholes' patchy England work is an indictment of England's failure to accommodate ballplayers. They are mixing Scholes up with Glenn Hoddle. Scholes' problem was that England didn't have a winger or wide forward as good as Ryan Giggs or Ronaldo- and without a quality, pacy player out wide to stretch play for him Scholes' limits came to the fore.

Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard? Neither, thanks. I'll have Gazza, who could dribble, pass and think the game better than either.
Edit: grossly misread that.
 

gary69

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
8,182
1,602
Then and there
Yeah in due time KDB will make the all time team. Some of the older guys I have in there aren't as talented as the current generation of players but those are the guys that carried small Belgian clubs to European finals. That deserves some recognition. Van der Elst's also a hometown hero of mine :D I had to have him in there.
And I really wanted Coeck in there. Yeah he was injured a lot and he died WAY too young but that right there was one of the most talented midfielders Belgium ever produced.

Coeck is interesting choice. Personally I didn't rate him as high as the other contemporary Belgian midfielders, but I only saw him play in the early-mid 80's. Maybe his best seasons were in the 70's, at least based on stats? In the 1982 WC I thought he was worse than the others (even the old ones like van Moer). His failure in Italy just enforced this view for me. But like you said, the injuries likely did him in. Did he miss the Euro 80 because of injury, don't remember, didn't see that tournament live? Maybe it's unfair to single him out, but to me Belgium in the final tournaments did better without him than with him.
 

gary69

Registered User
Sep 22, 2004
8,182
1,602
Then and there
All time:

Banks
Armfield - Campbell - Moore - Wilson
Edwards - Gascoigne
Matthews - Charlton - Finney
Shearer

(I love the thought of that trio supporting Shearer. Depending on the needs of the game it could plausibly become Matthews - Finney - Charlton or Finney - Matthews - Charlton).

For my lifetime, it would be:

Shilton
Parker - Campbell - Ferdinand - Cole
Beckham - Gascoigne - Robson - Hodge
Shearer - Lineker

The midfield in the latter team points to two of the fundamental issues with England down the years - accommodating talent and operating with balance. By rights, it should be Waddle on one flank, Barnes on the other. Alas, Bobby Robson could never make that pairing tick when it mattered and I'm judging on international performance rather than club career. Likely Beckham and Hodge would combine with Gascoigne as well as Trevor Steven and Hodge helped Glenn Hoddle in 86, and Hodge could cover for Cole's forays. I'm dubious about Bryan Robson as the nearest thing to a holding midfielder, but apart from Paul Ince in 96-98 mode, the only alternatives are pretty grisly.

Gary Neville misses out at right back for hitting roughly 267,000 aimless high balls that ceded possession during his international career. Neville on one flank and Kenny Sansom on the other would be my full back choices for a 'Players Who Were Quietly Awful for England XI' (if you want to know why Neville failed as a manager, his international performances are a good starting point- the praise he receives as a pundit misses the degree of narrowness in him). There are those who maintain Paul Scholes' patchy England work is an indictment of England's failure to accommodate ballplayers. They are mixing Scholes up with Glenn Hoddle. Scholes' problem was that England didn't have a winger or wide forward as good as Ryan Giggs or Ronaldo- and without a quality, pacy player out wide to stretch play for him Scholes' limits came to the fore.

Frank Lampard or Steven Gerrard? Neither, thanks. I'll have Gazza, who could dribble, pass and think the game better than either.

I understand your take on Hodge's role (the bolded), but even so I just can't understand including him in any all-time team. Maybe you saw more games from him than I did, but from what I saw he just wasn't anything special to merit an all-time team inclusion. I'd rather drop Beckham and play a different formation to include e.g. Ince, Wilkins or Steven instead of Hodge.
 

Stray Wasp

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May 5, 2009
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South east London
I understand your take on Hodge's role (the bolded), but even so I just can't understand including him in any all-time team. Maybe you saw more games from him than I did, but from what I saw he just wasn't anything special to merit an all-time team inclusion. I'd rather drop Beckham and play a different formation to include e.g. Ince, Wilkins or Steven instead of Hodge.

Believe me, Hodge is included with no enthusiasm whatsoever. His would be a 'sacrifice yourself for the superior players around you' brief. Which is more or less the useful function he performed in 86. He could cross, though, which Shearer and Lineker would appreciate.

I thought about a different midfield formation, but a diamond struck me as being the too-many-chiefs-not-enough-Indians mess it usually is when England try it in real life, and with 4-3-3 I'd feel like I was crowbarring in people like Waddle or Barnes on club reputation rather than international achievement. Steven on the right with Waddle left was something I came close to doing, but I recoiled from it at the last minute because when I think of Waddle playing for England, he was surely at his best in 1990 when the 5-4-1 formation freed him from playing as an up-and-down winger.
 

Eisen

Registered User
Sep 30, 2009
16,737
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Duesseldorf
My take at Germany. I'm not an expert of every period of footy, unfortunately, so this is going to be biased, because those were the players I witnessed mostly.

G.Müller - U.Seeler
L.Matthäus - B.Schuster
K.Förster
A.Brehme - J. Kohler - K.Schwarzenbeck - P.Lahm
F.Beckenbauer
M.Neuer​


Lahm and Brehme have to move a lot but there is more than enough defense to cover for them. Dangerous with the head, from set pieces and can shoot from away and you have a classical garbage goal getter. This is not a team made to hold and pass the ball, it's getting the ball and playing. You will not get through the middle. It will hurt. Many players from this squad can play multiple defensive positions, so it's very versatile.
Subs could be F.Walter (the one from 54), M.Kaltz, M.Sammer, K.H.Rummenigge, P.Littbarski, U. Stielike, B.Vogts, G. Buchwald.
It pains me to not have space for Briegel. But the defense is stacked for Germany.
And, as said, heavily biased for aera.
 
Last edited:

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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My take at Germany. I'm not an expert of every period of footy, unfortunately, so this is going to be biased, because those were the players I witnessed mostly.

G.Müller - U.Seeler
L.Matthäus - B.Schuster
K.Förster
A.Brehme - J. Kohler - K.Schwarzenbeck - P.Lahm
F.Beckenbauer
M.Neuer​


Lahm and Brehme have to move a lot but there is more than enough defense to cover for them. Dangerous with the head, from set pieces and can shoot from away and you have a classical garbage goal getter. This is not a team made to hold and pass the ball, it's getting the ball and playing. You will not get through the middle. It will hurt. Many players from this squad can play multiple defensive positions, so it's very versatile.
Subs could be F.Walter (the one from 54), M.Kaltz, M.Sammer, K.H.Rummenigge, P.Littbarski, U. Stielike, B.Vogts, G. Buchwald.
It pains me to not have space for Briegel. But the defense is stacked for Germany.
And, as said, heavily biased for aera.

You're 10-15 years older than me and grew up watching our football in the 80s, didn't you? :laugh:
 

cgf

FireBednarsSuccessor
Oct 15, 2010
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w/ Renly's Peach
I think that Gerd & Franz would be somewhat wasted on a team like that. Yes, the golden generation clamped down on the dutch in that WC final because we couldn't outplay them...I watched my uncle's tapes of that run, as well as the 72 & 76 european campaigns, way too many times as a child to ever deny that lol...but that was a stylistic outlier. The golden generation was the golden generation because of the fluid style they played with the ball that let Gerd, Franz & that incredible midfield shine, which was ripped straight from Total Football. If Beckenbauer is pushing forward without skilled midfielders drifting around for him to interplay with, while Gerd can't float around with other skilled & mobile attackers to pull the defenders out of shape for the midfielders & franz to slice through, then they wouldn't be the legends that they were.

Plus Breitner is a must-start for any german all-time team to me, like Beckenbauer, Gerd, Netzer, Neuer & KHR (if playing a 2 striker formation). Those 6 are just a class above anyone else we've ever had at their positions...although with Netzer being pushed out of the NT because of his move to Real & the team winning without him, I understand why folks who focus more on their NT careers than their talent & club careers might exclude him. And I get excluding players you didn't see as much of, but if you're including Gerd & Franz I think you have to include Breitner to...even if I were to bite my tongue about Netzer.
 

Eisen

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Sep 30, 2009
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Duesseldorf
I think that Gerd & Franz would be somewhat wasted on a team like that. Yes, the golden generation clamped down on the dutch in that WC final because we couldn't outplay them...I watched my uncle's tapes of that run, as well as the 72 & 76 european campaigns, way too many times as a child to ever deny that lol...but that was a stylistic outlier. The golden generation was the golden generation because of the fluid style they played with the ball that let Gerd, Franz & that incredible midfield shine, which was ripped straight from Total Football. If Beckenbauer is pushing forward without skilled midfielders drifting around for him to interplay with, while Gerd can't float around with other skilled & mobile attackers to pull the defenders out of shape for the midfielders & franz to slice through, then they wouldn't be the legends that they were.

Plus Breitner is a must-start for any german all-time team to me, like Beckenbauer, Gerd, Netzer, Neuer & KHR (if playing a 2 striker formation). Those 6 are just a class above anyone else we've ever had at their positions...although with Netzer being pushed out of the NT because of his move to Real & the team winning without him, I understand why folks who focus more on their NT careers than their talent & club careers might exclude him. And I get excluding players you didn't see as much of, but if you're including Gerd & Franz I think you have to include Breitner to...even if I were to bite my tongue about Netzer.
Yeah, but we saw that they could clamp down. If need be they could. But I want to have someone who can make a play from the back. I'm not sold on any of my other central guys being able to do that. If he gets the ball to Schuster, a lot can happen. You could also sub Matthäus for Littbarski to get more of a playmaker. And we often forget that Seeler can move, he didn't look like it, be he could hustle.
Gerd can play with anyone. He knew how to get rooms wherever.
I know Breitner's numbers and saw him play a couple of times but I mostly remember the twilight of his career. I did see Brehme and I know I can 't go wrong with him. A true workhorse while Breitner was always remembered as an abbrasive personality. I admit that I didn't look at it much closer. That's why Effe wouldn't make it in my team as well.
Donno how I could forget about Netzer when I included Schuster...
I don't know if Rummenigge was a class above everyone. He was great, but is really a class above Seeler? We saw them play in different contexts but Seeler was no slouch. Weirdly, I remember more Seeler games than Rummenigge games as I saw them later on video. Plus, Rummenigge is one of my subs, so I just wanted to give Seeler some love. ;)
 

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