Speculation: All Things Pete DeBoer - Part II

[Better Call Sal]

No he doesn't. He could easily have said "it's not coaching that is the problem"

But he went out of his way with his comment...look, I'm no Pete defender, but it just doesn't make any sense to make a change.

You bring in a new coach to right the ship, there is no ship here.

I am with you 100% here.

I'm no DeBoer supporter either, but he is going to get until the end of the season at least to see how this plays out. It's quite apparent what the problem is here, the talent at forward is desolate especially given the injuries. No coach could get anything out of this group collectively, I'm relatively certain of that.

This comment by Jagr is the same as he's said since he got here. He believes in the coaching staff completely.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Arguably the most honest and upfront guy we've had since Holik now all of a sudden woke up on this Sunday December 14, 2014 and decided he's going to start giving push over answers

It would be one thing to answer something along the lines of 'there are several things that could be changed' to that question which would have dodged it, but to say it would be among the 'biggest mistakes' tells you all you need to know and is about as explicit as it can get. This is further supported when he has been asked how he likes playing with so and so and he's answered 'we're all working to get comfortable with one another'/'it's going to take some time to learn eachother first'.

Now I have to make this clear because I'll otherwise have words put into my mouth because of the comprehension issues around here, it does not mean I agree with what he said, but you can't just look at something with such deep blinders on, at last be somewhat objective and look at the scope of the situation of who is saying it

do you REALLY think that Jagr would come out and say "yea Pete sucks man if we had a different coach we'd be A-OK"?

is that what youre telling me? just because he is open does not mean he is stupid.

 

[Wingman77]

do you REALLY think that Jagr would come out and say "yea Pete sucks man if we had a different coach we'd be A-OK"?

is that what youre telling me? just because he is open does not mean he is stupid.

I explained it pretty clearly to you.

 

[NJDevs26]

do you REALLY think that Jagr would come out and say "yea Pete sucks man if we had a different coach we'd be A-OK"?

is that what youre telling me? just because he is open does not mean he is stupid.

Of course he's not going to throw the coach under the bus publicly (especially one that's going to play him on the first line)...but there's a slight difference between a stock, noncommittal answer and vehemently backing Pete the way Jagr does.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Arguably the most honest and upfront guy we've had since Holik now all of a sudden woke up on this Sunday December 14, 2014 and decided he's going to start giving push over answers

It would be one thing to answer something along the lines of 'there are several things that could be changed' to that question which would have dodged it, but to say it would be among the 'biggest mistakes' tells you all you need to know and is about as explicit as it can get. This is further supported when he has been asked how he likes playing with so and so and he's answered 'we're all working to get comfortable with one another'/'it's going to take some time to learn eachother first'.

Now I have to make this clear because I'll otherwise have words put into my mouth because of the comprehension issues around here, it does not mean I agree with what he said, but you can't just look at something with such deep blinders on, at last be somewhat objective and look at the scope of the situation of who is saying it

Why is anyone putting any stock at all into any of his quotes? He is 42 years old playing out the last years of his career on the only team in the league that would give him first line minutes, playing for a coach who would need a gun put to his head to hold a vet accountable. Is it really a surprise that he would defend the coach vigorously? Not only that, but this is the same guy that has made quotes praising Josefson. Many on here dismissed that as having little meaning yet somehow this quote about the coach has some kind of validity to it?

The only thing that should matter are results, performance, track record, etc.

 

[NHL Fanatik*]

Once/if this team gets healthy, we will play better and end up picking 10-15 where the BPA will be a defenseman, thus these boards will implode.

You may think im joking, but im not. That is exactly what will happen.

 

[NJDevs26]

btw the second part of Jagr's quote got left out:

If Lamoriello is thinking about getting rid of DeBoer, however, Devils right wing Jaromir Jagr says he should think again.
“That would be one of the biggest mistakes they could make,” the 42-year-old future Hall of Famer told The Record. “To be honest with you, without our coaches and the system we play, it would be a lot worse.”

A lot worse than three wins in fourteen games?! Damn, I'd hate to see worse than that

 

[guitarguyvic]

Once/if this team gets healthy, we will play better and end up picking 10-15 where the BPA will be a defenseman, thus these boards will implode.

You may think im joking, but im not. That is exactly what will happen.

We had a full healthy roster for like 10 games and they were playing just as bad as they are now.

Not to mention the chances of this team being fully healthy again at any point for the remainder of the season seems small.

 

[R8Devs]

I didn't know the Devils could actually be worse than the 61 point pace ever since that 3-0-0 start.

 

[Better Call Sal]

do you REALLY think that Jagr would come out and say "yea Pete sucks man if we had a different coach we'd be A-OK"?

is that what youre telling me? just because he is open does not mean he is stupid.

Do you really think any player would say something that blunt?

He just as easily could have said, "I'm not sure what would be best, but something needs to change", and everyone would have assumed he's fed up and wants Pete fired. Instead he continued to be consistent with his opinion on the coaching staff that he's had since last year.

It's not difficult to see he actually believes in him, but people would rather see what they want to see rather than what's in front of them.

 

[Better Call Sal]

btw the second part of Jagr's quote got left out:



A lot worse than three wins in fourteen games?! Damn, I'd hate to see worse than that

Shockingly, I believe it given the rag-tag group we throw out there at forward.

 

[guitarguyvic]

btw the second part of Jagr's quote got left out:



A lot worse than three wins in fourteen games?! Damn, I'd hate to see worse than that

This is exactly what I'm talking. His quote is meaningless. Someone should have asked him as a follow up..."What is worse than 8 wins in 28 games?"

 

[Wingman77]

Why is anyone putting any stock at all into any of his quotes? He is 42 years old playing out the last years of his career on the only team in the league that would give him first line minutes, playing for a coach who would need a gun put to his head to hold a vet accountable. Is it really a surprise that he would defend the coach vigorously? Not only that, but this is the same guy that has made quotes praising Josefson. Many on here dismissed that as having little meaning yet somehow this quote about the coach has some kind of validity to it?

The only thing that should matter are results, performance, track record, etc.

Why wouldn't anybody be putting stock into the quotes of one of the most astute and respected hockey minds out there?

I do believe however that some of the veterans are too comfortable with this situation and for some of the reasons you mentioned.

 

[JimEIV]

Why is anyone putting any stock at all into any of his quotes? He is 42 years old playing out the last years of his career on the only team in the league that would give him first line minutes, playing for a coach who would need a gun put to his head to hold a vet accountable. Is it really a surprise that he would defend the coach vigorously? Not only that, but this is the same guy that has made quotes praising Josefson. Many on here dismissed that as having little meaning yet somehow this quote about the coach has some kind of validity to it?

The only thing that should matter are results, performance, track record, etc.

Holy crap, can you be more dismissive?

This is not some ordinary player...That is guy who is a student of the game and one of the greatest players of all time.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Hey the system currently has us getting outshot by a 2-1 margin on a nightly basis, allowing 3 goals per game, and winning only like 35% of the time. But yeah it would be worse otherwise. Yeah sure.

 

[JimEIV]

Why wouldn't anybody be putting stock into the quotes of one of the most astute and respected hockey minds out there?

I do believe however that some of the veterans are too comfortable with this situation and for some of the reasons you mentioned.

I guess we're on the same page

 

[guitarguyvic]

Holy crap, can you be more dismissive?

This is not some ordinary player...That is guy who is a student of the game and one of the greatest players of all time.

I am being dismissive and I explained why. Just because he is a great hockey mind does not mean he is immune from personal bias and skewed perspective.

Plenty of people have been dismissive of his quotes about young players on the team. Pretty selective no?

 

[JimEIV]

I am being dismissive and I explained why. Just because he is a great hockey mind does not mean he is immune from personal bias and skewed perspective.

Plenty of people have been dismissive of his quotes about young players on the team. Pretty selective no?

Dude, questioning his opinion is one thing but you essentially said no one should listen to an old washed up player...that is completely different and ridiculous.

 

[Traitor Zach]

I respect Jagr's opinion and hockey experience. However, let's not pretend he isn't extremely biased towards a guy who may be the only HC who will even remotely consider and give Jagr the minutes he wants, the responsibilities he wants, etc.

Systems are essential to having some chance and while I think this system we have is vastly overrated, it does keep us slightly competitive, but that doesn't mean Deboer is some great coach either. This guy could be given a nice full roster, and he would still put Gionta out for defensive zone faceoff assignments against Steven Stamkos and Peter Harrold on the 1st unit PP.

I don't see Jagr's statement an outright endorsement of Deboer, more or less, that even he is realizing how terrible this team really is from top to bottom and that somebody else probably couldn't do much better.

 

[Traitor Zach]

I am with you 100% here.

I'm no DeBoer supporter either, but he is going to get until the end of the season at least to see how this plays out. It's quite apparent what the problem is here, the talent at forward is desolate especially given the injuries. No coach could get anything out of this group collectively, I'm relatively certain of that.

This comment by Jagr is the same as he's said since he got here. He believes in the coaching staff completely.

Because it's a system which largely caters to his style of play nowadays.

 

[guitarguyvic]

Dude, questioning his opinion is one thing but you essentially said no one should listen to an old washed up player...that is completely different and ridiculous.

I didn't say anything of the sort, stop putting words in mouth. I am dismissing his opinion on this matter due to a variety of factors which I very clearly spelled out in my response to his quote. Much like how many on here dismissed his praise of Josefson and Gelinas last year.

 

[JimEIV]

I didn't say anything of the sort, stop putting words in mouth. I am dismissing his opinion on this matter due to a variety of factors which I very clearly spelled out in my response to his quote. Much like how many on here dismissed his praise of Josefson and Gelinas last year.

You most certainly did say no one should listen to his opinion because he is old and wash up....I'm not putting words in your mouth, here is the quote...it can't be interpreted any other way.

Why is anyone putting any stock at all into any of his quotes? He is 42 years old playing out the last years of his career on the only team in the league that would give him first line minutes, playing for a coach who would need a gun put to his head to hold a vet accountable.

 

[guitarguyvic]

You most certainly did say no one should listen to his opinion because he is old and wash up....I'm not putting words in your mouth, here is the quote...it can't be interpreted any other way.

A bit poorly worded on my part but I think what I write there makes the context understandable. In terms of his opinions about this coach and to an extent his teammates, his quotes don't mean much of anything for the reasons I stated. He is a great situation here and you expect him to say anything other than great things about the team, coach, etc.??

 

[JimEIV]

However, let's not pretend he isn't extremely biased towards a guy who may be the only HC who will even remotely consider and give Jagr the minutes he wants, the responsibilities he wants, etc.

Do you actually think DeBoer wants to play Jagr as his 1st line RW?

Let's look at the situation honestly for a second. There is hardly another RW in the organization... Bernier, Ryder? What is this coach to do? What is any coach to do?

 

[Devs4L]

btw the second part of Jagr's quote got left out:



A lot worse than three wins in fourteen games?! Damn, I'd hate to see worse than that

That last part, to me, is more eye opening than the first part, and cements what Jagr was saying as the honest opinion of a veteran that's been on a lot of different teams and in a lot of different systems.

It wasn't a stock 'it's not the coach, it's us' answer by Jagr. He's aware of the struggles of the team and where they are in the standings, and yet is telling you that this would be worse if not for the coaches. Wow.

It's just not a necessary comment, unless it was really what Jagr felt.