All things Pegula 1

[Sabre Dance]

People are claiming the Pegulas are cheap. Huh?

 

[Ygo]

"Bricking a 15 years of 2nd and 3rd round picks: A Sabres Story in 3 Acts."

That's why the team hasn't made the playoffs in a decade. You must get top level contributions from unlikely sources in the post cap world.

While true, does not address that the franchise is just as bad off the ice! Off the ice is always in the control of ownership (weird things can happen on the ice... injuries, missed draft picks, players leaving etc). Off the ice... they are just doing the bare minimum.

 

[Sabre Dance]

While true, does not address that the franchise is just as bad off the ice! Off the ice is always in the control of ownership (weird things can happen on the ice... injuries, missed draft picks, players leaving etc). Off the ice... they are just doing the bare minimum.

Explain what the bare minimum is?

 

[Ace]

It just hit me that the only thing we've heard even second hand is that they won't be hiring someone to be in charge of hockey operations.

Imagine being this f***ing arrogant while being this big of a failure.

Since taking over the franchise 9 years ago his organization is hitting ALL TIME LEVELS of long term irrelevance and poor play. And the one thing we know...the only thing...is that they don't want someone who knows anything about hockey in charge of hockey.

It will never get better.

 

[HogtownSabresfan]

People are claiming the Pegulas are cheap. Huh?

Are you a season ticket holder? I've been nickled and dimed to death by them. They charged for parking for rookie game this year, they got my $4 from me. Classic. Cut Sabres Bucks from 2.5% to 2.%. Saves them like $25. Do Sabre Bucks even affect NHL equalization payments.

What else? Cut off sale of tickets through stubhub 90 minutes before game. They want to sell at box office so they screw us.

I can go on.

Golisanto wasn't this cheap. He was more open about not spending money. Didn't say BS like I'll dig another well and then make the team do a crap deal so he didn't have to pay Ryan O'Reilly bonus.

 

[Tatanka]

Are you a season ticket holder? I've been nickled and dimed to death by them. They charged for parking for rookie game this year, they got my $4 from me. Classic. Cut Sabres Bucks from 2.5% to 2.%. Saves them like $25. Do Sabre Bucks even affect NHL equalization payments.

What else? Cut off sale of tickets through stubhub 90 minutes before game. They want to sell at box office so they screw us.

I can go on.

Golisanto wasn't this cheap. He was more open about not spending money. Didn't say BS like I'll dig another well and then make the team do a crap deal so he didn't have to pay Ryan O'Reilly bonus.

How can they determine what Stuhub does?

 

[Beerz]

Are you a season ticket holder? I've been nickled and dimed to death by them. They charged for parking for rookie game this year, they got my $4 from me. Classic. Cut Sabres Bucks from 2.5% to 2.%. Saves them like $25. Do Sabre Bucks even affect NHL equalization payments.

What else? Cut off sale of tickets through stubhub 90 minutes before game. They want to sell at box office so they screw us.

I can go on.

Golisanto wasn't this cheap. He was more open about not spending money. Didn't say BS like I'll dig another well and then make the team do a crap deal so he didn't have to pay Ryan O'Reilly bonus.

I mean they dont even have to give you any "Sabre Bucks" ..

I would rather they run the team responsibly in financial terms.

Obviously having a crappy team is bad for business...

 

[explore]

Are you a season ticket holder? I've been nickled and dimed to death by them. They charged for parking for rookie game this year, they got my $4 from me. Classic. Cut Sabres Bucks from 2.5% to 2.%. Saves them like $25. Do Sabre Bucks even affect NHL equalization payments.

What else? Cut off sale of tickets through stubhub 90 minutes before game. They want to sell at box office so they screw us.

I can go on.

Golisanto wasn't this cheap. He was more open about not spending money. Didn't say BS like I'll dig another well and then make the team do a crap deal so he didn't have to pay Ryan O'Reilly bonus.

Golisano was responsible for the Sabres firing nearly the entire scouting department which necessitated the Sabres needing to rely exclusively on video scouting. Golisano is the reason that Briere and Drury weren't re-signed to identical $5 million x 5 year contracts, and him and Larry Quinn are responsible for those god-awful slug jersey's--to generate more merchandise revenue.

The Pegula's have issues as owners, but a lack of spending isn't their problem.

 

[sabremike]

Golisano was responsible for the Sabres firing nearly the entire scouting department which necessitated the Sabres needing to rely exclusively on video scouting. Golisano is the reason that Briere and Drury weren't re-signed to identical $5 million x 5 year contracts, and him and Larry Quinn are responsible for those god-awful slug jersey's--to generate more merchandise revenue.

The Pegula's have issues as owners, but a lack of spending isn't their problem.

He's also, you know, the reason the team still exists. The Pegulas can make a solid claim to be the least successful owners in the modern history of the NHL: 9 full seasons, ZERO playoff appearances.

 

[jfb392]

Relative to even a few years ago, yes, the Pegulas have become cheap with the Sabres.
Without getting too much into it for fear of retribution, spending has absolutely been cut to the bone throughout the organization, with the exception of the Bills.

Season ticket renewals took a huge hit after the O’Reilly debacle, the WJC flopped, and when you take into account the struggles they have had in their other business segments and the large outflows of cash planned in the near future, it makes sense.

 

[explore]

He's also, you know, the reason the team still exists. The Pegulas can make a solid claim to be the least successful owners in the modern history of the NHL: 9 full seasons, ZERO playoff appearances.

My post wasn't discounting that he saved the Sabres from being bought by an owner who'd move the team when he purchased them out of bankruptcy, it was refuting the person I quoted saying that Golisano wasn't cheap compared to the Pegulas, which is objectively false.

 

[wnysupport]

Relative to even a few years ago, yes, the Pegulas have become cheap with the Sabres.
Without getting too much into it for fear of retribution, spending has absolutely been cut to the bone throughout the organization, with the exception of the Bills.

Season ticket renewals took a huge hit after the O’Reilly debacle, the WJC flopped, and when you take into account the struggles they have had in their other business segments and the large outflows of cash planned in the near future, it makes sense.

Once they bought the Bills I was wondering how it would impact the Sabres....it looks like my fears were correct. Think about where this team would be without being gifted Dahlin and Eichel.

Personally, as a STH, I absolutely agree with anyone that the fan experience is shit. I honestly have skipped most games I’ve had since December other than the Leafs and that was an abomination.

 

[littletonhockeycoach]

Regarding Vogl's pot stirring......I no longer have have any pride in being a Sabres fan. So take that Terry! (LoL!)

I am proud of being a born and raised (ex-)WNYer tho. (See what I did there..? chuckle....)

Hockey is a refuge from politics for me. I'd like it to stay that way.

 

[Royisgone]

I absolutely agree that owning an NFL franchise is profitable (both in revenue and asset growth). I am just saying that he has a lot of capital tied up in the Bills, and with the looming stadium build, he has a lot loss liquidity than when he first bought the Sabres. That fact may change his mindset.

The Bills' share of the league revenue last year was $274.3 million. That's just the big national pot that all teams split up.

I recall reading about a year ago that it was estimated that the Bills franhise value had already increased by a lot---$100 million? $200 million? something like that, since the time Pegula purchased them. (EDIT: Forbes as of 9/2019 says the team is worth $1.9 Billion. Terry bought for $1.4 billion). So that's a lot of appreciation already, if a fair valuation.

That's where the true value in owning an NFL team is: appreciated franchise value over time. It's also why all the other owners quickly fell in love with Pegula, after he generously overpaid to get the Bills, making everyone else's franchise value go up more than they probably should have.

 

[BloFan4Life]

Once they bought the Bills I was wondering how it would impact the Sabres....it looks like my fears were correct. Think about where this team would be without being gifted Dahlin and Eichel.

Personally, as a STH, I absolutely agree with anyone that the fan experience is shit. I honestly have skipped most games I’ve had since December other than the Leafs and that was an abomination.

Pegula is operating the Sabres the same way he did before he owned the Bills and now.

His refusal to bring in someone at the top has been an issue since Day 1. He didn't do it either with the Bills. It just happened to work out with the Bills because there are more resources out there to help owners. For example, McDermott was recommended through a committee that searches for new coaches. McDermott has been a godsend to the Bills.

 

[HockeyH3aven]

Pegula is operating the Sabres the same way he did before he owned the Bills and now.

His refusal to bring in someone at the top has been an issue since Day 1. He didn't do it either with the Bills. It just happened to work out with the Bills because there are more resources out there to help owners. For example, McDermott was recommended through a committee that searches for new coaches. McDermott has been a godsend to the Bills.

I'd like to know more about the whole Pat LaFontaine debacle, as that was their attempt to appoint a senior hockey executive above the General Manager and after three months he just quit and we never heard why.

 

[Zman5778]

I'd like to know more about the whole Pat LaFontaine debacle, as that was their attempt to appoint a senior hockey executive above the General Manager and after three months he just quit and we never heard why.

Isn't the whole kinda/sorta verified rumor that LaLa's issues were centered around trading Ryan Miller/team future? That Murray wanted to basically continue what Darcy started with the rebuild, but LaLa wanted to keep and retain Miller and get better right then and there? And that the Pegulas sided with Murray and Patty was like "K, I'm out".

 

[BloFan4Life]

I'd like to know more about the whole Pat LaFontaine debacle, as that was their attempt to appoint a senior hockey executive above the General Manager and after three months he just quit and we never heard why.

I thought it had to do with Tim Murray. Tim Murray didn't like him trying to get involved with hockey decisions.

Pretty sure this has scared Pegula. Just another residual effect of Murray.

 

[Tatanka]

I thought it had to do with Tim Murray. Tim Murray didn't like him trying to get involved with hockey decisions.

Pretty sure this has scared Pegula. Just another residual effect of Murray.

This doesn’t make any sense. The tank was started by Regier. He was fired. Then LALA was hired who then hired Murray. So you are arguing that somewhere between speed ahead under Regier and hiring Murray, the Pegs changed their mind? Uh no. LaLa may have had second thoughts and the purge was complete in his mind, but Murray was hired under the marching orders from up top to get the McEichel trophy. Rightly or wrongly, based on how you feel about tear downs, which judging by how many teams do it, and successfully, Murray was left with no one between him and the owners and had orders to get the prize. If anything, the Pegs should have fired him for not winning the lottery.

 

[Buffaloed]

I'd like to know more about the whole Pat LaFontaine debacle, as that was their attempt to appoint a senior hockey executive above the General Manager and after three months he just quit and we never heard why.

Chat recap: John Vogl answers your Sabres questions
The Black Widow did it. From what I understand, Pat was saying naughty words after the Ryan Miller trade and she thought they were directed at her. Numerous people told her she was wrong, but she wouldn't back down.

 

[sabremike]

Chat recap: John Vogl answers your Sabres questions
The Black Widow did it. From what I understand, Pat was saying naughty words after the Ryan Miller trade and she thought they were directed at her. Numerous people told her she was wrong, but she wouldn't back down.
View attachment 332203

This is 100% correct because one of my best friends actually talked with Vogl about this subject and that is exactly what he was told.

 

[dotcommunism]

Chat recap: John Vogl answers your Sabres questions
The Black Widow did it. From what I understand, Pat was saying naughty words after the Ryan Miller trade and she thought they were directed at her. Numerous people told her she was wrong, but she wouldn't back down.
View attachment 332203

For what it's worth (and I'm not sure it's necessarily worth much) there are a couple of Bucky columns that say others within the organization made up stories about LaFontaine saying stuff about Kim so that they wouldn't lose power.

 

[SackTastic]

Isn't the whole kinda/sorta verified rumor that LaLa's issues were centered around trading Ryan Miller/team future? That Murray wanted to basically continue what Darcy started with the rebuild, but LaLa wanted to keep and retain Miller and get better right then and there? And that the Pegulas sided with Murray and Patty was like "K, I'm out".

I believe this more than the theory he was badmouthing KP. ( I don't think Vogl is lying;he can only go with what he has told. )

- With the Islanders, he forced a trade over what he says was a contract dispute. He continues to say it was on 'principle',but the reality was that he didn't like the losing that was taking over. He has said it was about the money, but he turned down 4y/$6M, and said he would never play for the Islanders again as long as Pickett owned the team. (He ended up taking less money from Buffalo post trade.)
- With the Sabres, he got a massive concussion, and no team doctor would clear him to come back. He wanted to anyways, and paid for his own specialists to say he was ok. The rumors around town (started by Donny Meehan) was that he thought the Sabres wouldn't clear him because only because they were bleeding so much money back then. That was likely a load of crap, because teams insure their contracts against this exact scenario. (I recall reading once that 50% of his contract was insured in case of injury, but cannot find the reference again.) Of course all those doctors proved correct when LaFontaine got noodled the next season in NY and had to retire because of it.
- When he got hired back on the Island, he was officially an adviser to the owner; he was never singularly in charge of anything. When they fired Neil Smith, LaFontaine said he quit on "principle'.
- In Buffalo, the main rumors has long been what Zman said above. This fits more with LaFontaine's track record.

Pat Lafontaine a genuinely good human being who does good things in life to help people. He is also a spoiled quitter who picks up and runs every time there is any kind of disagreement or conflict, and wraps himself in the blanket of righteous principle to justify it to himself.

 

[Sabre Dance]

You know things are going bad when Lafontaine is a Pegula conversation.

 

[Sabre the Win]

What's the chance of them selling the Sabres?